How a Russian Sub Designed to Kill US Carriers Became a Victim of Its Own Arsenal

[Onkel Neal]

Kyle Mizokami
November 6, 2016

In 1999, a Russian submarine designed to sink aircraft carriers became a victim of its own arsenal. The cruise-missile submarine Kursk suffered a catastrophic explosion and sank after an onboard torpedo accidentally detonated. The accident was the worst naval disaster suffered by post–Cold War Russia.

The Soviet Union’s greatest adversaries at sea were the aircraft carriers of the U.S. Navy. With their versatile air wings, American carriers could frustrate the Warsaw Pact’s plans wartime plans, doing everything from escorting convoys across the Atlantic to bombing Soviet Northern Fleet bases above the Arctic Circle. They also carried nuclear weapons, making them exceptionally dangerous to the Soviet coastline.

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[jaop99]

In fact no one in the media officially knows what happened to Kursk, why was found a US submarine emergency buoy near the area days after the disaster, why the head of CIA visited Moscow those days and I quote:

"On August 17 the head of the CIA, George Tennet, secretly arrived to Moscow from Sofia, Bulgaria. Shortly after Russian journalists became aware of the visit. Bulgarian officials made no secret of the matter and confirmed that the head of the CIA went to Moscow. When confronted by the journalists, Russian officials stated that the unusual visit was related to the situation in Yugoslavia, and not to the accident aboard "Kursk." On the same day Russian reconnaissance satellites confirmed that a US Los Angeles class submarine entered a naval base in Norway."

So, it's possible that the Russian sub, was never victim of their own arsenal, but the arsenal of another one

I think it's good to read another theories

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WR...RSK/kursk.html

[mapuc]

It's absolutely no secrets that a country has either a "fishing boat(s)" or a sub nearby when an opponent is conducting military exercises

USS Los Angeles was there to sniff to this exercise and take pictures and do other intelligence surveillance thing, but attack an Russian sub in a time where the relation between these two countries was good ? No.

I'm pretty sure that Los Angeles knew what had happened so they send up one of their emergency buoy so the Russian could find their sub-Kursk.


Markus

[speed150mph]

I for one find the theory that an American submarine sank the Kursk to be absolutely preposterous. For one thing, the Kursk had one of the best crews in the northern fleet and was commanded by a captain with a very good record. If an American submarine would have attacked, he would have at least attempted an evasion. An oscar II at flank speed makes enough noise the kirov and her escorts, at Asw battlestations for the exercise, would have heard. They also would have ear the sounds of a mark 48 ADcap easily, they arnt quiet fish. And if Russia would have detected an attack on a russian submarine by the US navy, there would have been hell to pay.

Also it is not very likely that a torpedo would have struck kursk in the bow. It is likely that any American submarine would have been in trail and would have fired towards the stern of Kursk. Also kursk would have turned away from the torpedo to evade.

Third, I find that the idea of the high test peroxide torpedo caused the incident because after the Kursk incident, the russian navy removed all htp torpedos from all their vessels.

[Catfish]

^ I do not think the idea of a US sub being involved is "preposterous", but i think an aggressive act of any kind is highly unlikely, for all the facts you mentioned.
I could believe in an unintentional collision, but i wonder if a US sub would have got away after such damage, with their one hull construction. And I take it even a shadowing US sub would well keep away from a submarine in a trial area, using sharp weapons.

Is there a reason why the bow had to be sawed off, for the raising of the "Kursk"?
Danger of exploding torpedoes aside, there were also other missiles and weapons aboard, along with two reactors.

[nohouan]

Well, there are always theories & legends for our submarine realm.
Chances are -for me- that it was the onboard weapon detonation(s).

East and West always carry their own version each time, but I mostly remember me and my family being rather angry at the refusal of accepting american help, since there seem to have been a perfect timetable to bring in Western DSRVs if the russian ones were unavailible.

Almost anyone feel strong concerns in each day life for sailors stranded at sea, much more underneath it.

[Aktungbby]

I like the French version the best!

La stampa: &.tsuot;Kursk&.tsuot; the submarines OF THE USA exploded, but Putin and Clinton agreed and hid truth the time of the publication: 06:58 last renovation: 13:02 versions for the press to preserve in the form of file to send on the mail the survey of the photo-illustrations 118 fellows perished under water with the emergency of the atomic submarine of &.tsuot;Kursk&.tsuot;, 118 families they await the truth, which never they learn and which could prove to be the last report not of cold, but icy war. But Bill Clinton and Vladimir Putin agreed to shut this theme, he writes La stampa (transfer on site Inopressa.ru). The fragment of this so of the not open truth could be hidden in the small communication, only it is more than 10 lines, that was appeared on 22 August, 2000, on the Internet site of &.tsuot;Pravda.ru&.tsuot;. The communication, which not was never published in the printed version of publication and which in the virtual peace of the Internet existed is only is somewhat hour. The text of spectral communication is such: &.tsuot;V Saturday, on 12 August, the incident, which occurred in the Barents sea, could lead to the third world war. During several days the peace was suspended from the small filament, and any incorrect political step could lead to the exchange of nuclear strikes. Fortunately, the incident was regulated diplomatic of putem&.tsuot;. These were the days of &.tsuot;Kurska&.tsuot;, the Russian nuclear-powered submarine, which motionlessly lies on the bottom at the depth of approximately hundred are meter with its load of people and riddles, secret of catastrophe, which not will be never opened. According to the communication, published on 22 August, &.tsuot;prezident of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin and President of the United States Of bill Clinton after numerous confidential telephone negotiations knew how to agree about the peaceful settlement of dela&.tsuot;. But what this was &.tsuot;delom&.tsuot;, which in two years of investigations the Russian procuratorship did shut with the hypocritical formulation of &.tsuot;za with the absence of the composition of prestupleniya&.tsuot;? As it writes La stampa, &.tsuot;Kursk&.tsuot; not it was destroyed as a result of random explosion of one of the nonnuclear charges, APL was struck by the American submarine Memphis. According to the data of publication, the maneuvers were organized by Russians for the purpose to demonstrate to Chinese effectiveness of one of last &.tsuot;zhemchuzhin&.tsuot; Russian oboronki: the torpedo of &.tsuot;Shkval&.tsuot;, capable of move under water with a phenomenal speed of 500 km an hour. This weapon the Americans do not have, until now. Specifically, by these severe of &.tsuot;chudom&.tsuot; in the month before the catastrophe Putin praised before entire peace. This version of the history of &.tsuot;Kurska&.tsuot; it is fruit of the three year investigations of French journalists. The materials of investigation became the basis of the film, taken by director Jean- Michel Carr, who will be shown France TV during the first days of January. For the journalists of the Italian newspaper La stampa it was possible to see this film. In it there are no single-valued proofs whatever (what film can change the motion of history?), but the reconstruction of the events of these improbable and terrible ten days, when entire peace because of the television controlled the agony of Russian seamen, produces strong impression. Pravda this or not, but this picture gives its explanation of the improbable behavior of Vladimir Putin, if we consider that this is the not simply age long dull indifference of Russian authorities to the lives of its fellow citizens. It did not pass at that moment and six months as Putin it was selected by the President of Russia after the lightning takeoff, built on the second Chechen campaign. It was on leisure in Sochi on the shore of Black sea during those August days, when &.tsuot;Kursk&.tsuot; already two days it lay on the bottom of Barents sea, but no one spoke about this, quieting that occurred, attempting to understand as this tax in most advantageous light. Contrary to any expectations Putin decided to remain on the dacha. From there he forewent the western aid on the rescuing of crew. Nothing essential it was undertaken during the entire week. The mothers of fellows, buried alive in the sea, cried on the moorages of Murmansk and in vain they appealed to the Russian officers. From Great Britain and Norway to the Kremlin entered the proposals about conducting of operations with the use of bathyscaphs and recovery facilities, which the Russians not had. Pale and inexorable Vladimir Vladimirovich moved not the millimeter. The present discovery of this investigation became the fact that the Chinese was present during the studies. No one about this spoke never. In the film there are personnel, on which is visible the group of Generals from Peking, who be present during the studies together with the Russian associates. Judging by the film, the presence of Chinese strongly disturbed the Americans, who wanted to prevent the renewal of qualitative military deliveries by Russians. And in the center of these studies there was the monstrous torpedo of &.tsuot;Shkval&.tsuot;. For several months thus far, hardly only Putin was based in the Kremlin, the colleagues OF FSB arrested in Moscow the American owner of Edmond Poupa, one of the former colleagues of the secret services U.S. NAVY. Poup discussed the construction of &.tsuot;Shkvala&.tsuot; with its inventor by Anatoliy Babkin. No one connected never this matter from &.tsuot;Kurskom&.tsuot;. In actuality Poup, sentenced to several years of prison, was crossed into the United States after a certain time after the completion of the matter concerning the submarine. How to explain this &.tsuot;dobrotu&.tsuot; from the side of Russian management, which, beginning from its President, did plan first of all to overcome anarchy and pliability of the times of Yeltsin's administration in the attitude of the former American enemy? To explain is possible by the fact that this was the part of &.tsuot;paketa of &.tsuot;Kurska&.tsuot;. However, so that in reality did occur there, under water? The matter, possibly, was as follows: while Russia conducted tests and demonstrated to Chinese the weapon forbidden according to the agreements, two American submarines they spied near. Chance, or, it is not excluded, shielding reaction, it became the reason for launching torpedo MKYA8, which is been nonnuclear weapon, but which has tip with impoverished uranium, which makes possible for it to penetrate the metal. &.tsuot;Kursk&.tsuot; it proved to be more vulnerable than it was expected: torpedo led to two internal explosions, and most perfect from Russian APL lay on the bottom. Round hole with the edges bent inward serves as the proof of entire this: in the film the fragment of submarine is shown. Furthermore, about the fragments MKYA8 reported the newspaper of &.tsuot;Versiya&.tsuot;: FSB immediately conducted search in the editorial staff and forced newspaper to become silent. In this sea duel Memphis also were obtained the damages, two submarines simply encountered. The American submarine several days was later photographed on the Norwegian report base, located hereabout from the place of incident. Another submarine - Toledo - returned to the United States with the damages. Several months later New York Times described about its mysterious adventures. On the whole, to Moscow and to Washington it was that hide, but Putin and Clinton everything settled. No information about this will filter never, because &.tsuot;Kursk&.tsuot; was raised to the surface, but the section, where explosion occurred, it was cut off from the housing. Amin' - to scrap metal 118 to Russian fellows, whose agony shook peace, concludes La stampa. Version of the ram: as this was or it could be The Americans repeatedly denied their participation to the catastrophe of &.tsuot;Kurska&.tsuot;, although two submarines of project Los Angeles - Memphis and Toledo - actually they were located in the region of the studies of the northern fleet on 12 August, 2000. But after catastrophe Memphis it visited into the Norwegian port Bergen to the repair. But the Ministry of Defense OF THE USA it did not allow Russian side to look around these ships in order to ascertain that none of them was damaged. Proving the certain understanding between Russia and USA about the ignoring of the true reasons for the loss Of kurska&.tsuot;, many analysts give the following associated facts: the special telephone conversation of the leaders of Russia and USA, then - the mysterious visit of the director OF TSRU of George snares to Moscow. And finally, the random failure of Clinton's Billa of the development of antimissile system as the concession to Russia. Version of &.tsuot;stolknoveniye&.tsuot; it was one of three basic at the very beginning of investigation. On it insisted entire former management of fleet, then discharged by the order of President Putin. On 25 October been by the central board of Russian VMF Vladimir kuroyedov stated that it were confident in the version of the collision of &.tsuot;Kurska&.tsuot; with the submarine. The version of collision outlined former commanding of northern fleet Vyacheslav Popov in the interview for the Spanish newspaper El Mundo. On 5 November the representative of the main staff of Russian fleet stated in the interview NTV that the command VMF of Russia will defend &.tsuot;ne version, and pozitsiyu&.tsuot;, which consists in the fact that by the reason for the loss of &.tsuot;Kurska&.tsuot; collision with the foreign submarine became. According to him, the &.tsuot;prinimaya into the attention gravity of the charges, which will be produced for this state, Russian side thoroughly carries out entire complex of measures for the identification of this of submariny&.tsuot;. 17 November in the interview for the newspaper of &.tsuot;Izvestiya&.tsuot; the chief of staff of northern fleet Mikhail motsak again gave the new proofs of the fact that &.tsuot;Kursk&.tsuot; American submarine ruined. This occurred at the very heighth of the warming up of the Russian- American relations, when President Putin met in THE USA with President Clinton. According to Motsaka, underwater object in the region of the calamity of &.tsuot;Kurska&.tsuot; &.tsuot;zafiksirovali the hydroacoustic means of the cruiser of &.tsuot;Petr Of velikiy&.tsuot;, also saw it seamen, who were attempting themselves to take out the emergency buoy of unknown origin, discovered in the Barents sea on 12 August. But in the evening on 13 August military pilots saw the floated up bubbles of fuel in 18 miles from the emergency nuclear-powered ship, and then antisubmarine aircraft they revealed the outgoing from the Barents sea submarine. Thus, is erected the picture of the fact that occurred from &.tsuot;Kurskom&.tsuot; 12 August 2000: The foreign submarine, which controlled studies from their beginning itself and which fixed the Russian surface ships, in the morning on 12 August completed certain dangerous maneuver in immediate proximity of Russian APL of &.tsuot;Kursk&.tsuot;. As a result of this two submarines encountered. From the impact something occurred with the torpedo tube or with the torpedo. The decompression of housing could occur from the impact - air rapidly was pressed and was heated to several hundred degrees, which could cause the detonation of torpedo. The strongest explosion, which fixed the ships of northern fleet, and even seismologists, occurred. 7.30 - seismologists of the Norwegian seismic institute of &.tsuot;NORSAR&.tsuot; they fixed two explosions in the region of the catastrophe of &.tsuot;Kurska&.tsuot; in the Barents sea. First explosion by the force of 1,5 marks, in two minutes - second explosion by the force of 3,5 marks. President of Russia Vladimir Putin - on the leave in Sochi. The management of fleet, giving estimation to explosive force, determines that APL and crew perished with probability 95%, and it reports upward. They from there await order, and preparation for the rescue operation thus far occurs. &.tsuot;Kursk&.tsuot; were not given signals, but signals SOS of podala another submarine - at first this led into error the management of fleet. In &.tsuot;Kurska&.tsuot; there was the call sign of &.tsuot;Vintik&.tsuot;, i, according to Vice Admiral Mikhail motsak, with this call sign already after emergency into ether left &.tsuot;neizvestnyy korrespondent&.tsuot;. Period of communications took place into 19:30, into 20:30, and also in 1:30 nights, when anxiety was already declared. Even three hours prior to &.tsuot;Petr Of velikiy&.tsuot; revealed &.tsuot;Kursk&.tsuot;, the management of fleet to &.tsuot;eshche had deceitful information about that which has svyaz'&.tsuot; with the submarine of &.tsuot;Kursk&.tsuot;. Who precisely deceived command VMF, servicemen so did not say. Now they do not exclude, that this could be the &.tsuot;prednamerennaya work in ether of &.tsuot;chuzhikh&.tsuot;, i.e., foreign submarine. Let us note that in the case CHP the submarine OF THE USA, in accordance with instruction, had to give out itself for the boat of enemy, i.e., to imitate the signals of &.tsuot;Kurska&.tsuot;. Most likely, Americans knew its numbers and they left with them to the connection into these three sessions, reporting to its about the emergency aboard. Also in accordance with instruction American submarine rejected the radio-buoy, which revealed the Russian seamen, buoy from &.tsuot;Kurska&.tsuot,; not it was rejected. After a certain time after the catastrophe, about which no one nothing reports, they understand authorities that after explosion in the command of &.tsuot;Kurska&.tsuot; to survive in effect not there were chances. Putin is connected with Clinton, the RF Ministry of Defense - with the Pentagon. The divers work on the spot of catastrophe. Upward again they report, that during such damages APL the crew, most likely, it could not survive. And on 12 August, and on 13 August go negotiations with the American side. As a result both sides decide to hide collision. And only in 2 days - on 14 August of approximately 11:00 - begins the played play from the communication of press- service VMF, that on the submarine occurred the troubles, as a result of which it was forced to lie on the soil.

And there the matter rests...in a nutshell

[Kapitan]

Sorry but the theories surrounding an american submarine firing a live MK48 ADCAP at Kursk well are almost diabolical, the reason being look at the damage and most submariners will tell you that torpedoes are designed to travel under the hull and explode underneath breaking the ships back we have seen this HMAS Farncombe SINKEX for those that remember sub command that was the start up video for the game.

When you look at the damage the hull plating is shaped outwards the explosion came from inside not out, and the damage also affects the starboard front quarter where the torpedo tubes are situated.

Could it have been a collision ? No i certainly don't think so again look back to 1992 the Sierra class submarine which is considerably smaller than an Oscar and nearly 10,000 tons lighter in submerged displacement and take a look at the damage that submarine did the the USS Baton Rouge (She was scrapped)

Oscar II SSGN is around 18,000 ton displacement and is twice as wide as the 7,000 ton Los Angeles SSN had they have hit even at relatively slow speed the damage to the latter would have been severe likely en-par with the San Francisco i would say.

So that does leave the official report? indeed the 65-76 is an old torpedo using old design manufactured in 1976 and is 65cm diameter (hence why its called 65-76 or fat girl to the crew) it does use HTP for its fuel source something the west stopped in the 1950's many accidents have been attributed to this type of design and this is hopefully the latest and last (all 65-76 were removed from service after this)

I am highly inclined to believe the official report based on the facts given and having looked into this disaster for over 13 years, the fact Captain Igor Kurdin also agrees with the report gives it some weight (he would know he commanded Yankee and Delta class SSBN's)