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Old 03-20-2011, 12:07 PM   #61
I'm goin' down
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Default Capn Scurvy

I did not think that OM/OMEGU/KIUB would work with OTC, but, dumb as I am, I thought I should verify it. I am happy with OM/OMEGU/KIUB as is, so your analysis is not received as bad news.

Now for a bigger issue that concerns me. The good news is that if you use stock with OTC, you get the UBoats and American subs with the radar fixes. Yippee! (That means I am a happy camper.) But the downside is that I will have to mod the game to death to end up with something that give me the feel of realistic game play. (I somehow just deleted the rest of my post, so I am retyping it. @#%$&*!!.) To avoid that exercise I activated Webster's GFO supermod. I noticed that some crazy captain who goes by the handle " Capn Scurvy" contributed one mods, SCAF (I did not see that it incorporate Max Optics) to GFO. I added a few minor mods after activating GFO, incliuding real gun sounds, more airbases, Interconintental Radio Pack, fire damage, Nav Map make over, ship debris with DEAD bodies, and larger lifeboats. Now for the question. I actived mods in the following order: GFO first, the minor mods identified above, and OTC/radar fixes last. Because GFO incorporates SCAF, will OTC work properly? Since it is activated after SCAF, I am hoping it overrides it. How do you see it? I will take my chances with the other mods incorporated into GFO.

FYI, I have three setups:

1. GFO/minor mods/OTC;
2. TMO/RSRDC/minor mods (many overlap with no. 1);
3. OM/OMEGU/KIUB/green lamp mod.

This give me quite a variation in game play. I am fighting all over the place.

BTW, the Coratio's Interconintental Radio Pack is damn good and very inclusive. It has three German radio staions (one of those has English war time broadcasts), Paris, Hawaii, CBS, NBC, Tokyo, Hollywood and BBC stations (BBC starts in mid 1939 and contains a few more war time broadcasts than the original BBC mod.) It is activated via JGSME, and it changes the radio.ini files automatically. You might want to give it a try. I believe it incorporates the Trans Atlantic Radio mod. Radio Hawaii is taken from fred's files. It is my understanding that if you are playing music in the vicinity of the enemy, the can pick up the sounds, so use care when on patrol.

Last edited by I'm goin' down; 03-20-2011 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:08 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm goin' down
I actived mods in the following order: GFO first, the minor mods identified above, and OTC/radar fixes last. Because GFO incorporates SCAF, will OTC work properly? Since it is activated after SCAF, I am hoping it overrides it. How do you see it? I will take my chances with the other mods incorporated into GFO.
By activating OTC last, OTC will over ride any changes GFO or the other mods may have made. This is not a bad thing at all; as long as the changes don't effect some other part of GFO (or the other mods) that requires that file(s) that were changed to read as it originally did. I haven't looked at GFO in quite a while and I'm not certain whether or not the ships in the mod are stock or have some additions. OTC covers the stock ships. If there are ships added to the stock list I would expect whatever GFO added would show up just fine in the Recognition Manual as expected.
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:46 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by CapnScurvy View Post
By activating OTC last, OTC will over ride any changes GFO or the other mods may have made. This is not a bad thing at all; as long as the changes don't effect some other part of GFO (or the other mods) that requires that file(s) that were changed to read as it originally did. I haven't looked at GFO in quite a while and I'm not certain whether or not the ships in the mod are stock or have some additions. OTC covers the stock ships. If there are ships added to the stock list I would expect whatever GFO added would show up just fine in the Recognition Manual as expected.
YAY!!!

I have activated Real Environment as it is an option to the GFO mod. It may be driving me berserk. The ocean view is often overlayed with a mist, making it hard to see the targets, thus hard to use OTC. I would deactive it, but it takes a long time to reactive the Interconinental Sound Mod, so I will continue as is. But a few times I may have missed seeing the targets because of the environnmet, or alternatively, I did not recognize there was a target becuase their siloutettes were shadows that filled the scope and they sailed when I was looking right at it, and the target managed to sail right by.
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Old 03-20-2011, 07:53 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by I'm goin' down View Post
YAY!!!

I have activated Real Environment as it is an option to the GFO mod. It may be driving me berserk. The ocean view is often overlayed with a mist, making it hard to see the targets, thus hard to use OTC. I would deactive it, but it takes a long time to reactive the Interconinental Sound Mod, so I will continue as is. But a few times I may have missed seeing the targets because of the environnmet, or alternatively, I did not recognize there was a target becuase their siloutettes were shadows that filled the scope and they sailed when I was looking right at it, and the target managed to sail right by.
Use Websters Lite Fog mod to clear up the annoying fog problem.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=152907
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:44 AM   #65
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Default target's tough to see at night.

Webster's lite fog mod seemed to help a little. It is tough to see the target's at night, and when I do see them, they are black silouettes and tough to ID. I need more practice if I don't go night blind first. I missed two set up tonight, but the second was not by much, and was attributable to the fact that I could not get a fix on the target until it was really close. I never got a good view of that target, so I made by best guess as to its type by comparing the silouette to the target I.D. booklet. I assume identifying target;s in the war was difficult at night, so this problem may be fairly realistic.
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:54 AM   #66
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Another night attack. I managed to identify the target despite the fact that it was a mere black silouette. I was off on range and Aob by 50 percent. I converted to an O'Kane attack. I hit it with 5 or 6 shots. It was a 1,300 ton T3 tanker. I sailed back to Pearl and upon docking was arrested and tossed in the brig, charges deferred until the cessation of hostilies. I sank a valuable allied ship! Career over in February 1942. If I cannot even see the ship (but for a siloutte), attacking at night with OTC is a risky business.

(Sent from the brig at Pearl>)
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:43 PM   #67
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Here is my first definitive report of success using the OTC. I spotted what i thought was a Biyu Maru (H. 65.6' L. 389') at long range and set up for an attack using the OTC. It was coming from my starboard* side (right to left.) I took two range readings. When I checked the Attack Map (after the second range reading), range was off by 400 feet (I checked it using the 3,000 yd. bearing tool), but the Aob matched the target's course (a few yds. from its port side). I adjusted range using the Range Dial. The final data was input into the TDC when the target was at a 60 degree bearing and 14 degree Aob. The solution looked good. Shortly afterwards, I noticed the masts on the Biyu Maru did not match its picture in the target identification book. I thumbed through the book and decided the target was not a Biyu Maru, but was a Hakasuka Maru which has a mast height that is almost a match to the Biyu Maru. Since the firing solution was good, I proceeded with the attack. I fired three torpedoes at a bearing of 10 degrees, range 1,000 yds. All hit, but the third torpedoe was a dud. The target split in half. Delighted, I proceed to check the log to confirm the sinking was recorded. I actually attacked and sank a Kasagisan Maru (H 59.1' L. 281'.)!! That is why the range inital range calculation was in error. Where did I go right? (rhetorical question as I am happy with how it worked out.)

A few of lessons were learned here. First, the easy one is that OTC works and it works extremely well. Second, using the OTC will force one to learn to identify ships by visual observation. I was spoiled with TMO which allows one to identify targets using a button the HUD. Third, the OTC is forgiving, at least where the target is travelling at 9 knots and the firing solution is set up at long range. I had time to correct the range error using the other tools in the game. (The same may not be true if you misidentify a target travelling at a high rate of speed.) Fourth, I do not know how the Aob ended up being accurate, as the lengths of the Biyu Maru and the target are different. The length of the Biyu Maru (L. 389') was not even close to the length of the Kasagina Maru (L. 281'.) I got lucky, but definitely need to practice identifying targets correctly. Fifith, this was a daylight attack. Correcting the errors described above at night is much more probematic.

I think the learning curve for being able to visually identify targets is going to take awhile. Also, I am convinced. This mod is a winner. Mod of the year? Maybe.

Last edited by I'm goin' down; 03-21-2011 at 11:36 PM. Reason: * corrected per subsequent post.
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Old 03-21-2011, 10:09 PM   #68
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If your target was coming from your port side, but, was moving right to left, I REALLY don't know how you got a good solution!
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Old 03-21-2011, 11:35 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by NorthBeach View Post
If your target was coming from your port side, but, was moving right to left, I REALLY don't know how you got a good solution!
Right. My mistake. It was my starboard side. It was the target's port side. I corrected the post accordingly. Thanks.
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:14 AM   #70
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Default Very, very good news for the OTC

I just completed a night attack on a convoy with a speed of 8kts.

I successfully attacked the Tahosian Maru. I was able to get a good target identification at night. The Aob was almost perfect and Range just needed an adjustment of few hundred yards. I sank it firing at a bearing of 40 degrees at a range of 2,200 hundred yards. Two hits and one miss. (The miss almost took out another ship in the convoy.)

What is really interesting followed. Behind Tahosian Maru (the target above) and further away on a parallel course, was a Kasagisan Maru. It became target no. 2. I confirmed its identification in the target book. I took aim at the Kasagisan Maru, set up for a salvo, and fired three torpedoes. I again used the OTC to set up a new firing solution. The solution on the Atack Map looked good, although the contact spot on the target (the "X") was near its bow. Unfortunately, all three torpedoes ran wide of the mark (the "X"). Why? The convoy veered to its port and towards my boat between the time I launched the the salvo at the Kasagisan Maru and when it was timed to hit it. The last minute course change was probably fatal to the attack, and it certainly did not help that the Tahosian Maru exploded while the salvo fired at the Kasagaisn Maru was en route. The explosion apparently alerted the convoy, which took evasive action. When the Kasagisan Maru turned, veering to its port and towards my boat, it slowed down. Since the contact spot (the "X") was near its bow, once it began turning the firing solution's accuracy dissolved. However, I am satisfied that two targets can be successfully attacked in a convoy utilizing this mod. The torpedoes missed the second target's bow by a quarter of a boat length--not much.

My testing of the mod is complete. It works and is flexible enought to give captains time to adjust errors in settings for range and Aob. It is an excellent attack tool.

Last edited by I'm goin' down; 03-23-2011 at 04:07 AM.
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:19 PM   #71
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Default further report to Capn Scurvy re OTC

Great mod. When you use OTC properly, the lock on the target is incredibly percise.

A tip for players using GFO/OTC.

If there is fog or really dark, it is tough to get a fix on the target until it is right on top of you. Webster has a light fog fix (versions 1 and 2). I recommend installing those, as it gives you a chance to use the mod in light to moderate fog.

General observations.

I have yet to sink two merhants in one attack run (even though the second merchant was on the same course.) Once you reset range for the second target, you have to check and see if the Aob is still accurate on the Attack Map. Sometimes the Aob dial resets itself to a "0" Aob, which requires a look at the Attack Map to check if the firing solution is still good. If it is not, you have to reset it, which means you have to read the Omnimeter again for purposes of getting an accurate Aob in addition to Range.

Capn Scurvy's tutorial mentions the following, and it is worth repeating. Regardless of the target, I suggest that you set speed first, then switch to the Range Dial on the Attack Dials so you can quickly input range, and if you have not done so, activate the PK. Then enter the Aob. Even better, if you can set up the periscoe reticules to locate range and Aob in a single viewing in the scope, you are a leg up. (I pause the game while I set/reset the Omnimeter.) I keep screwing up the solution for the second target. Basically, it comes down to having a bunch of procedures to adhere to in a short amount of time to ensure a good firing solution, which is always verified by the Attack Map details. The procedures for the second target are the same as for the first one, but time pressure is critical if the second target is at short range, unless you want to fire at it while it is moving away. My crew (i.e. me) get flustered and so far has blown it. But I am still trying when the situation presents itself. It has nothing to do with the mod.

I have yet to sink a captial ship. I missed a salvo at a Kongo due a bad solution caused by foggy conditions. And it was only doing 12 kts. Ouch!
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Old 03-27-2011, 11:28 AM   #72
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Hello, I am really impressed with this mod, however, I having problems with the omnimeter.

Just an idea....

Is there anyway that someone can post screen shots of different targets with different target aspects/ranges with the answers (hidden) so we can practice using the omnimeter without actually having to do the same scenario over and over. Or maybe even make it part of the tutorial download?

I would do it myself, but my answers would not be correct.

Thanks.

P.S. The problem that I have is when doing sub school #3. I keep getting readings that are above the omnimeter scale (AOB > 90 degree, I think).

I really don't know what to do after that (AOB > 90) and end up guessing. I understand about the dividing to get below 200 part, though. Plus, having done that scenario when practicing manual targeting OVER and OVER, I know the already answers. That's why I requesting the above "test problems"
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:07 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by cbrown1790 View Post
Hello, I am really impressed with this mod, however, I having problems with the omnimeter.

Just an idea....

Is there anyway that someone can post screen shots of different targets with different target aspects/ranges with the answers (hidden) so we can practice using the omnimeter without actually having to do the same scenario over and over. Or maybe even make it part of the tutorial download?
Sorry not to have answered you sooner, I've been away the last several days.

One of the ways I checked accuracy with the Omnimeter while "in-game", was to have a test mission run with the option of manual targeting turned off. This will provide a means of telling you how accurate you are at figuring Range, or AoB when using the Telemeter divisions with the aid of the Omnimeter to find the same.

It's been a while since I've tried the Sub School #3 Mission but if memory serves me right you can't adjust the option of whether you have manual targeting turned on or off (after all, it is supposed to teach you how to manually find a firing solution). So for the purpose of checking your accuracy the Sub School may not be the best mission to use.

I have uploaded a mission named "AoB Test" (that is JSGME compatible) to the SubSim "Downloads" menu, with a link to the mission found HERE.

This mission will place a stationary Porpoise class sub at periscope depth, with several Axis targets approaching at different angles and speed. The "AoB Test" will appear in the Single (Quick) Missions menu of the game after loading it through JSGME (activate Optical Targeting Correction first).

I recommend before starting the mission, to go to the "Realism" menu at the bottom of the missions page and remove the check mark next to the Manual Targeting option. In this way you will have the Position Keeper giving you the correct range to the target your following; and the correct AoB will be shown on the Attack Data Tool "angle on bow" dial. Have the Attack Data Tool and Position Keeper hidden when you make your Omnimeter calculations for Range and AoB. Pull them out to see how close your estimates are to what the game calculates. In this way you can check your findings and learn the correct process in determining how to use the Omnimeter.

You should find that the Range and AoB are not always going to be exact to what the automatic game readings will be. But that's ok, the idea of getting a "ball park" figure is what your looking for. Believe me, the readings are as accurate (if not better) as what the real life Captain would have had to use.
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The HMS Shannon vs. USS Chesapeake outside Boston Harbor June 1, 1813

USS Chesapeake Captain James Lawrence lay mortally wounded...
Quote:
.."tell the men to fire faster, fight 'till she sinks,..boys don't give up the ship!"
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:34 AM   #74
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Default Attack Map?

I noticed back in the thread someone mentioned tha it was nice to see the white solution "x" and line line up with the target.
As I recall this function was on the attack map. I cannot find the button to access same.
Any suggestions...SK
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Old 03-30-2011, 09:15 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Steelkilt View Post
I noticed back in the thread someone mentioned tha it was nice to see the white solution "x" and line line up with the target.
As I recall this function was on the attack map. I cannot find the button to access same.
Any suggestions...SK
The Attack Map can be accessed through the Orders Panel tabs. The second tab is for the maps, the second button is for the Attack Map.


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The HMS Shannon vs. USS Chesapeake outside Boston Harbor June 1, 1813

USS Chesapeake Captain James Lawrence lay mortally wounded...
Quote:
.."tell the men to fire faster, fight 'till she sinks,..boys don't give up the ship!"

Last edited by CapnScurvy; 07-13-2017 at 10:27 AM.
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