Are you Liberal, Moderate or Conservative? And why?

[gimpy117]

I think to be honest we've touched on what is more a moral issue than a political one. But by a pure moral standpoint this is what i feel:

I would be outraged if, when the time came i wanted a child, the government told me that i could not have a child due to some law. telling me what to do with my own seed.

on the flip side, i am also offended when people suggest the the government ought to be able to tell that you have to have a child if impregnation has occurred. I believe that until the baby can think for itself (Ie. why late term abortions should be illegal unless absolutely nessicary) it is an extension of your own body and something i think the government should never be able to tell you what to do with.

[Rockstar]

Gimpy, do you mind if I ask you what the basis of your moral standpoint is? In other words where do you derive your sense of right and wrong?

Secondly it is known a fetus can feel pain at 7.5 weeks without the mother ever being aware this pain herself. How do you define 'late term' and 'thinking for oneself'?

[gimpy117]

well my moral standpoint is my own rockstar. It would be sad if somebody else was telling me what the believe.

[Rockstar]

OK, I have as your answer that the basis of right and wrong boils down to you don't like being told what to do. But isn't that just lawlessness or did I miss something?

Now last I heard pain is a feeling and one responds to it by getting out of the way by thinking for themselves, just like you do. Morals aside how did you come to define 'late term' and 'thinking for ones self' then?

[Growler]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

That would do it

Oh yeah, that did it.

I've questioned "faith" and "religion" for years, and was best termed "agnostic" for a while. As I've gotten older, the answers I'm given make less and less sense. Watching my devoutly Catholic mother die in agony from leukemia and its treatments emphatically put the final nail in the religion & faith coffin for me.

[GoldenRivet]

When I was a kid I went to a catholic school for a couple of years. I wasn't catholic though as several other class mates weren't either.

Seems that the curriculum was based upon telling kids every day that they were going to hell for just damned near any reason.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

OK, I have as your answer that the basis of right and wrong boils down to you don't like being told what to do. But isn't that just lawlessness or did I miss something?

We all have an inate sense of right and wrong. Whether that comes from reason or is given to us from an outside source is pure speculation.

Now last I heard pain is a feeling and one responds to it by getting out of the way by thinking for themselves, just like you do. Morals aside how did you come to define 'late term' and 'thinking for ones self' then?

I can't speak for Gimpy, but "late term" comes from the idea that the child is capable of surviving on its own outside the mother's body. The argument isn't whether the fetus feels pain, but who should decide whether an abortion should take place.

You have every right to say that you think a woman "shouldn't" terminate her pregnancy, and within that right a discussion of what the fetus can or cannot feel is valid. The only argument here is whether you or anyone else has the right to say she "can't". All other moral points are moot.

[the_tyrant]

you know, in places that abortion is illegal, is it allowed if by not aborting the baby the mother could die?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

you know, in places that abortion is illegal, is it allowed if by not aborting the baby the mother could die?

Yeah, well, but, you see, in that case the baby's life is less important, so God doesn't care as much, which makes it okay.

Sorry to be trite, but it really annoys me when people say it's wrong but then come up with reasons why it's not so wrong, like in cases of rape or incest. Does that child have less of a right to live?

[GoldenRivet]

Yes as far as I know. In such a situation it would be legal

Abortion is a recognized medical procedure, which was once a tool used in dire circumstances, it is today often used to correct for the thoughtless and irresponsible life choices of others.

[Growler]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Seems that the curriculum was based upon telling kids every day that they were going to hell for just damned near any reason.

Yeah, does that sound like a loving, paternal god who created you in his image as his most perfect creation?

[antikristuseke]

He also fathered himself whom he sacrificed to himself so that his creation could be cleansed of sins in front of himself.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Yes as far as I know. In such a situation it would be legal

Abortion is a recognized medical procedure, which was once a tool used in dire circumstances, it is today often used to correct for the thoughtless and irresponsible life choices of others.

Actually, it has been used that way for thousands of years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_abortion

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

OK, I have as your answer that the basis of right and wrong boils down to you don't like being told what to do. But isn't that just lawlessness or did I miss something?

Now last I heard pain is a feeling and one responds to it by getting out of the way by thinking for themselves, just like you do. Morals aside how did you come to define 'late term' and 'thinking for ones self' then?

late term is when the baby is as far as i know developed enough for consciousness. physical response to pain stimuli does not necessarily the same as conscious thought. Much of the pain response is reflex action, not actual higher thinking. But im sure the right to lifers have tried to pass this off as "proof" the baby is thinking.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

I'll just add, my views on religions are changing anyways.

Your not the only one.

http://www.slate.com/id/2278923/