Are you Liberal, Moderate or Conservative? And why?

[privateer]

Technically, that's if she made a choice to carry to delivery.

So if the discussion is based on choice to carry to delivery or not?

That is not a good argument.
It presumes a choice was made but does not invalidate other choices.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by privateer

Technically, that's if she made a choice to carry to delivery.

So if the discussion is based on choice to carry to delivery or not?

That is not a good argument.
It presumes a choice was made but does not invalidate other choices.

we were discussing whether it is a lesser evil to abort or place the child up for adoption.

all other things being equal... i think it is a shame that most people would site a completely imaginary expense as a reason to abort a fetus.

it costs nothing to have a baby - if you go to the ER in labor and you tell the hospital you cant pay thats their tough cookie, they are required by law to deliver the baby and not charge you for it.

my father does just exactly that for a living in Texas border towns to the tune of about 300 border babies per month.

depending on the facility his payment comes from the city, county, state or federal government for such services and the little Senorita pays ZERO


EDIT:

i had no intentions of turning this into an abortion debate... it is an issue i almost never discuss.

but to say it costs tens of thousands of dollars to deliver a baby hence that is an argument FOR a $500 abortion is ludicrous.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

no pushing of personal dogmas here... just a simple question as to which you thought the lesser evil might be.

The way you worded that makes that hard to believe rivet. I mean no offense, but thats the feeling i get out of that.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

The way you worded that makes that hard to believe rivet. I mean no offense, but thats the feeling i get out of that.

no offense taken... and none intended.

I guess it was the "What do you think gimpy?" part.

i was just addressing you as an individual for a reply, i wasnt trying to be an ass... thats all.

[Learjetcap]

I respect everyone's opinion, but for god sakes rivet, get the 152 off of my screen....I have 1800 hours instructing in that p.o.s. and can't stand to even look at another one.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

On the other hand, it's my understanding that the purpose of the contract was to force a man and woman to stay together to guarantee the safety of the children of the union.

Which would mean that gay marriage in that context would negate the purpose of the contract in the first place.

So would a heterosexual couple that chooses or is unable to have children.

[Platapus]

If someone accepts the concept that the purpose of marriage is to procreate, then logically sterile men and barren women should not be allowed to marry, right?

I don't think so.

Besides there is much more to marriage than procreating. There is the suffering, manipulation, mental anguish, and the lowering of the standard of living to keep in mind too.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

thats why i always protect myself...not matter what she says. But i am under the opinion that if mistakes are made and you do wind up with a pregnant woman, and you know you can not support that child, it is not shameful to have an abortion, granted its done non late term.

My wife was on the pill both times she got pregnant...and she didn't skip.

I think if abortion is done is should be done early. There is much evidence that late term aborted babies feel pain, go into distress, ect.. Most liberals will go out of there way to save animals over babies...seems to me they would champion this issue, but that's me.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Learjetcap

I respect everyone's opinion, but for god sakes rivet, get the 152 off of my screen....I have 1800 hours instructing in that p.o.s. and can't stand to even look at another one.

That's about what I've got haha

Been wanting to change my sig but nothing comes to mind

[Learjetcap]

I would recommend any Lear (they never built an ugly one) or the badass Citation X if you must stick with Cessna

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

thats why i always protect myself...not matter what she says. But i am under the opinion that if mistakes are made and you do wind up with a pregnant woman, and you know you can not support that child, it is not shameful to have an abortion, granted its done non late term.

Of course protecting oneself is a 'responsible' thing to do, however, and this is not a direct attack on you, sir, but it is a shame to see people say that when it comes to pregnancy, that it was a "mistake" and furthermore, that when such a (bad choice of words) 'mistake' happens, that the 2 people 'decide' that they cannot support this life is even more disturbing... and that the only way out is to have an abortion, i cannot stomach that.
Easy way out, it seems.
I read of many stories of new-borns being literally dumped out the front of church doors, or hospital entrances, or in extreme cases, and this sickens me, dumped in bins and god knows where else, where the only outcome is inevitable. Death. To a life that deserves to live, like we deserve to live. Like everything deserves to live.
I get the point about parents, or in a lot of cases, single mothers not being able to cope mentally or financially, trauma, physical abuse, mental abuse, drug abuse, and the list goes on...
Sure, we could delve deeper into the whys and the possible solutions to these matters, but that is another thread, at another time.
That saddens me to no end.
Surely there is some sort of compassion and remorse in these people who are charged with making these abhorrant decisions to just dump a baby and not care about his or her outcome?

Contraceptives are not 100% safe, nothing is, however, the 2 parties should be, and i stress the point should, responsible and mature enough to realize that if 2 people engage in acts of love that there may be a time when the contraceptive may fail.
It is before this time of failure that the 2 parties should have already engaged and come to the solution of such a possible outcome. Not afterwards, when the simple throaway (it seems) line is used of : "oh, it was a mistake, it just happened" and we cannot deal with this so there is only one thing left to do and that is to abort.
And before you condemn me for not having been in the situation of having to endure day in day out, for the rest of my life of what it is like to have a woman abort your child, many years ago, a woman i was with made that decision, without my consent, letalone not even discussing it with me.
You cannot imagine the pain and suffering i went through at that moment when she told me.
I wonder to this day what that child would have been like, our child, my child.
Yes, we practiced safe sex, yes, we discussed the consequences of our nights of passion and what could happen, and i was under the understanding that all would be well and that were it to happen that she would fall pregnant that that child, unborn, would be given a chance to live. Like we have been given the chance to live, by our parents.
Who are we to deny a yet unborn child the right to live, to grow up and be a good person, to excel at school, to be what they want to be in life, to love, to smell the flowers, to experience, happiness?
That is my belief, yes, it's my belief, we will differ in that belief, of course, i hope my belief will not cause a flame war, for that is not why i started this thread, far from it.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Learjetcap

I would recommend any Lear (they never built an ugly one) or the badass Citation X if you must stick with Cessna

If you are going to put a Cessna there be bad ass and use the Dragonfly.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by razark

So would a heterosexual couple that chooses or is unable to have children.

Originally Posted by Platapus

If someone accepts the concept that the purpose of marriage is to procreate, then logically sterile men and barren women should not be allowed to marry, right?

I don't think so.

Don't get me wrong. If you remember a couple of years back we had a huge debate on Gay Marriage, and I was one of the main supporters. It was then that I first used the phrase "Either you have freedom or you don't".

As I said before, I was just raising a point, not arguing it.

[TheSatyr]

I have always been a moderate. Unfortunately,because of things I've seen and heard and read I have also become a bit of a racist towards certain ethnic groups.

I also admit to leaning more to the right than to the left,BUT I feel that the left and right both have good and bad ideas.

What I do not like are the extremists on both sides. I consider them to be dangerous.

Finally,I vote for whoever seems to be closest to my personal views. Regardless of what political party they belong to.

[Takeda Shingen]

Reading the views in this thread has convinced me to join the Rent is too Damn High Party.