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Old 08-19-2010, 06:02 PM   #46
SteelViking
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I don't have any experience with the mission editor. All the work I have done so far has really not needed special conditions before, so I never had a need to use it. I am sure that someone would be willing to make one like that though.
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Old 08-19-2010, 06:51 PM   #47
reaper7
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Ok made a mission with the Master and 3 clones and I can verify that they are getting there speeds from the .cfg files .
Upon setting them to there waypoint so can set a max spped. I tried setting them all to 20 and the game editor corrected the values to there individual max's. like in my last post of 13kts, 11kts ,10kts and 10kts.

Will measure time manually in game using the 3.15 min rule.

That means unlees you add all ships to the rec man like I did in my UI mod then you can't get the correct values in game for ships.
Now that means its on to lenghts next.


EDIT:
Ok tried in game for some interesting results.
First in the Mission Editor using the simulator I got these valuse.

Liberty cargo 13Kts
Liberty Warsupplies 11Kts
Large Steamer 10Kts
Large Steamer WarSupplies 10Kts
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But testing in game I got these.

Liberty cargo 11Kts
Liberty Warsupplies 11Kts
Large Steamer 10Kts
Large Steamer WarSupplies 10Kts
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So this means the Master Ship gets its value from the .sim file while the clone use the .cfg
Relatively easy to fix. I'll include the fix's in my next UI release.

Last edited by reaper7; 08-19-2010 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:29 AM   #48
Zedi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper7 View Post
I wonder if the ship models themselves are accurate in scale to the real deal.
See, that's the real problem here. The 3D models are wrong and I bet all my money that there is no rule in scaling here. Maybe something like.. "I think the tanker should be a bit longer than a cargo, scale it". For example, use the external camera and take a look at a carrier. These ships should look really massive, but at close look.. they look like some fishing boats. Just look at the crew on board and the size of the ship. You don't need to do any math to figure out that the scale is very wrong.

So, the basic problem here is not the speed itself, but the scale. That's why using the speed chart is not a valid option in SH5. The only option to play the sim at max realism is to make multiple range readings and then ask The noob WO about the speed estimate. Then he will start digging in the game files and find somewhere deep, probably hardcoded, the right values. And is possible to be hardcoded, just to cover the the wrong scaling issue from the modders.

I spent a lot of time in the goblin editor trying to find out the ship length, but there is no line about the ship dimension, only garbage about rpm, propulsion, crew, cargo &stuff. The dimension is stored somewhere else. What is in the .cfg files are just to drop some numbers in the manual, not the real stuff. Remember, in the stock game, the rec manual are still not showing the ship length after patch 1.2, wonder why... So the issue is not the ship speed, but the wrong scaling. We are playing with some fake ships.. illusions, not models made after the real deal.

I need to say again.. this game was completely designed to be a game, not a sim and even the modding community is working really hard to make SH5 a sim, I think the battle is lost. You just can't play a sim when all the data in the game are wrong/fake...

I'm just thinking, maybe this is the main reason why it will pass a long time for the next patch, or there will be no further patch at all. The community demand a sim, not only "hey, align the dots is bugged" stuff. So to make SH5 a sim again it require a lot of work, time and funds. So....
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Old 08-20-2010, 04:10 AM   #49
Arclight
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Scale should be correct compared to length listed in the files. I can at least confirm mast-heights are correct for most, so it stands to reason the listed lenghts are usable as well.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:50 AM   #50
Zedi
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One thing for sure... the length in .cfg files are all wrong and is very visible. Just compare the Cimmaron (Length=139.6) with the Liberty (Length=147), so in the cfg files the cargo ship is longer than a huge tanker. These are dummy values, not the real stuff.

I created a dummy mission where I listed all cargo ships from the ME roster in docked state for the purpose to be measured. Reaper, maybe you can do that with you RAOFB or any other advanced measurement tool, I still use the stock UI.

Ships listed in the mission and they stock .cfg values are:

_BR C1-B medium merchant
ClassName=VV
3DModelFileName=data/Sea/NVV/NVV
UnitType=102
MaxSpeed=17
Length=139.6
Width=18.5
Mast=27.9
Draft=7.3


_BR Liberty
ClassName=LL
3DModelFileName=data/Sea/NLL/NLL
UnitType=102
MaxSpeed=13
Length=147
Width=18.1
Mast=27.1
Draft=5.8

_BR Large Merchant (ProxY)
Is the Large Steamer.. can't find the right folder...

_BR Large Merchant / War supplies (ProxY)
Can't find the right folder...

_BR C2-S-B1 large merchant
ClassName=KLCSC2SB1
3DModelFileName=data/Sea/NKLCS_C2SB1/NKLCS_C2SB1
UnitType=102
MaxSpeed=12
Length=139.6
Width=18.5
Mast=28.2
Draft=7.3

_BR Victory Ship
ClassName=VV
3DModelFileName=data/Sea/NVV/NVV
UnitType=102
MaxSpeed=17
Length=139.6
Width=18.5
Mast=27.9
Draft=7.3

_BR Medium Old Split Merchant (aka Hog Island)
ClassName=KMSSHogIsland
3DModelFileName=data/Sea/NKMSS_HogIsland/Hog_Island
UnitType=102
MaxSpeed=11
Length=120
Width=15
Mast=28.4
Draft=4.7

I'm on the work laptop now so I can't test the mission, but it should be all right.
Link to the mission: http://www.zumodrive.com/share/6UmxYzkwMT
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:26 AM   #51
reaper7
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Thanks Magnum for the test mission. Willplay aroud a bit and see if its worth doing anything regarding this Issue.
I sure hope that its not a lost cause, if so manual targeting goes out the window for SH5. And if manual targeting is out, SH5 is out.
My whole mod is based around getting SH5 to be playable in Maunal Targeting only, hence the RAOBF's ets and if lenghts and heights are all wrong then it just makes a mess of everything.
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:39 AM   #52
Zedi
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Yes, we are talking about the core of the manual targeting here. If this can't be fixed, we can just dream about playing a sim.
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:10 PM   #53
reaper7
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Ok Magnum while using your mission to test lenghts and heights. I just realised another flaw with this game.
The Master ship DDS image shows up for the clone ships in the rec man as well.
SO the incorrect info will always be displayed in the rec manual for any clone ship .
This just gets worse and worse . No wonder they put the dont display in rec man entry in the cfg files. There pointless anyway.

I'm more and more feeling that SH5 is a lost cause for the serious subsimmers. They made it moddable but only for the scripters, no way to fix the real issues for the Manual players .


How are ships pooled in the campaign files. Are they just taking from the rooster. If so we would be aswell of to delete all the clones files from the sea folder.
And just add there cargo and dates to the master ship files. It would be the very same thing as the ships are identical.
This way the clones info is never accounted for correctly in the REC Manual.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:24 PM   #54
reaper7
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Ok figured out a method for the Rec Man to display the correct dds image for the clone ships.
Bacically I copied over all the files that were not in the clone folder from the Master folder into the clone folder and renamed them to the clone.
Changing path directors in the cfg files.
This Converted it into its own master .

Large Steamer


Liberty Cargo


Anyone know how to assign the skins to a model. I changed the colours in the 3 dds files but both models still have a default skin.
It this done through Goblin ??
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:26 PM   #55
Zedi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper7 View Post
Ok Magnum while using your mission to test lenghts and heights. I just realised another flaw with this game.
The Master ship DDS image shows up for the clone ships in the rec man as well.
SO the incorrect info will always be displayed in the rec manual for any clone ship .
This just gets worse and worse . No wonder they put the dont display in rec man entry in the cfg files. There pointless anyway.

I'm more and more feeling that SH5 is a lost cause for the serious subsimmers. They made it moddable but only for the scripters, no way to fix the real issues for the Manual players .


How are ships pooled in the campaign files. Are they just taking from the rooster. If so we would be aswell of to delete all the clones files from the sea folder.
And just add there cargo and dates to the master ship files. It would be the very same thing as the ships are identical.
This way the clones info is never accounted for correctly in the REC Manual.
This is exactly what I'm saying and the reason why I abandoned to work on this mod. SH5 is not designed to be played as a sim, but a kids game: align the dots, shot &lol.

Is just us.. I mean, YOU the modders who struggle to get back SH5 in the sim line. Everything in this game is designed for nabs, not for simers. Is the Ubi policy to get the youth attention and also make a profit from it. Ofc, they failed and ofc they suck. Hope that one day subsim.com will cut the "devs are our friends, so do not engage them" line. Or this sim will fall to his own grave forever.

I feel sad that none will give a medal to all you great moders who work very hard to make SH5 float, TDW, Reaper, SteelViking and all our great moders around. All I can say is.. Thank You guys! And no respect at all for those who got paid to develop SH5, shame on you!
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Old 09-08-2010, 08:00 AM   #56
Zedi
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Added a black skin that will fit the stock black UI:



Download from here.

Unpack into mod folder, install with JSGME and overwrite files. You need to have ERM already installed to see this skin.
If is anything look different than in the picture above, report back here.

This was designed to work with the stock UI and will not work with custom UI's like Reaper or TDW UI.


Can a moderator please change the topic title into: "[REL] Enhanced Recognition Manual (ERM) continued". Thank you.
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Old 09-08-2010, 08:37 AM   #57
Abd_von_Mumit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum View Post
Added a black skin that will fit the stock black UI:
Nice job, I like the black skin - fits much better into the interface, doesn't blind so much when attacking in dark and looks weathered, unlike the red one I have now. Too bad I can't use it with "Multiple UIs".

Are you planning one with svastika on it as well? (I restore svastikas wherever I can for accuracy/realism/immersion/looks).
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My SH5 mods: EQuaTool - Elite Quality Map Tools, Patrol Routine Scripts, No Logo Intro Menu_Animation, Less Annoying Stopwatch
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:47 AM   #58
Zedi
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Personally I use one with swastika, but I don't wanna offend anybody by releasing that version in public. On black background it looks pretty... scary, reminds pretty much of the gestapo stuff.
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:55 AM   #59
TheDarkWraith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abd_von_Mumit View Post
Nice job, I like the black skin - fits much better into the interface, doesn't blind so much when attacking in dark and looks weathered, unlike the red one I have now. Too bad I can't use it with "Multiple UIs".

Are you planning one with svastika on it as well? (I restore svastikas wherever I can for accuracy/realism/immersion/looks).
I can make it compatible - it just takes time to do which I don't have much of currently
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Old 09-08-2010, 10:44 AM   #60
Abd_von_Mumit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum View Post
Personally I use one with swastika, but I don't wanna offend anybody by releasing that version in public. On black background it looks pretty... scary, reminds pretty much of the gestapo stuff.
Do you really think just _releasing_ it, as an option, would offend someone? Those who don't want it would just download the default/clean/politically correct version.
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Long, hard, wet and full of seamen. My precious.
SH3+GWX+OLC — sunk x4, retired x2; SH5+TDW — still exploring
My SH5 mods: EQuaTool - Elite Quality Map Tools, Patrol Routine Scripts, No Logo Intro Menu_Animation, Less Annoying Stopwatch
Links: SH5 mods I use, FileFront, Manual plotting how-to
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