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Old 03-05-2010, 08:17 PM   #16
bigboywooly
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Am curious as to the " nodes "

Looks almost like a preplanned route so no waypoints used



Corresponding entry in Taskforces

[LanesGraph.Node 35]
Long=118940.000000
Lat=6045200.000000
Height=0.000000
IsFromSingleMis=false
Name=CHANNEL_Patrol_1 which you can see on the right of the channel
Radius=50.000000
MaxSpeed=0.000000
RelatedSPRadius=0.000000
SpawnHeading=0.000000
Category=0
LayerOperation=0
RelatedMapLoc=
ShowOnMap=false
IsLocked=true

[LanesGraph.Node 36]
Long=-435860.000000
Lat=5966200.000000
Height=0.000000
IsFromSingleMis=false
Name=Node1780 - which you can see on the left
Radius=50.000000
MaxSpeed=0.000000
RelatedSPRadius=0.000000
SpawnHeading=0.000000
Category=0
LayerOperation=0
RelatedMapLoc=
ShowOnMap=false
IsLocked=true

So it seems there are preset routes so less need for waypoints
Am guessing here tho - tutorial would be nice

More examples



Those are in the port traffic layer ( the black pit ) and look like pre planned docked nodes though the entry in the mis doesnt reference to a ship or type that I can see - note the same mis is also in the common folder

[LanesGraph.Node 225]
Long=-362629.000000
Lat=6741217.000000
Height=0.000000
IsFromSingleMis=false
Name=NodeP456
Radius=0.000000
MaxSpeed=0.000000
RelatedSPRadius=0.000000
SpawnHeading=125.000000
Category=2
LayerOperation=0
RelatedMapLoc=
ShowOnMap=false
IsLocked=false

And finally Uboats
Note the UPatrol_Satl2 close to South Africa



[LanesGraph.Node 1.NodeGroup 8]
Type=TF_UBOAT_Single
Name=Brest_UBOAT_Single8
Country=German
Speed=0.000000
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231
ReportPosTime=-1
ReportPosProbability=0

[LanesGraph.Node 1.NodeGroup 8.NGMission 1]
Name=UPatrol_Satl2
ObjectiveType=0
TargetNode=UPatrol_Satl2
PathNodes= < No path given
UsePath=false < Doesnt use path anyway
CooldownMonths=0
CooldownDays=31.000000
CooldownHours=1
Priority=0
RewardPoints=0
StartDate=19420902
EndDate=19430228

Many entries for UPatrol_Satl2 originating from different U boat bases in France

[LanesGraph.Node 2.NodeGroup 6]
Type=TF_UBOAT_Single
Name=LaPallice_UBOAT_Single8
Country=German
Speed=0.000000
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231
ReportPosTime=-1
ReportPosProbability=0

[LanesGraph.Node 2.NodeGroup 6.NGMission 1]
Name=UPatrol_Satl2
ObjectiveType=1
TargetNode=UPatrol_Satl2
PathNodes=
UsePath=false
CooldownMonths=0
CooldownDays=26.000000
CooldownHours=1
Priority=0
RewardPoints=0
StartDate=19420905
EndDate=19430228

---------------------------

[LanesGraph.Node 3.NodeGroup 6]
Type=TF_UBOAT_Single
Name=Lorient_UBOAT_Single8
Country=German
Speed=0.000000
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231
ReportPosTime=-1
ReportPosProbability=0

[LanesGraph.Node 3.NodeGroup 6.NGMission 1]
Name=UPatrol_Satl2
ObjectiveType=1
TargetNode=UPatrol_Satl2
PathNodes=
UsePath=false
CooldownMonths=0
CooldownDays=19.000000
CooldownHours=1
Priority=0
RewardPoints=0
StartDate=19420905
EndDate=19430228

Some interesting stuff in there
Be nice to have some answers
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Old 03-06-2010, 11:17 AM   #17
digitizedsoul
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Very intersting indeed and thank you for taking the time to post all that here for reference sake.

The nodes are indeed a new variable, but I think for working with the campaign it will prove invaluable.


On a simpler note, are there any special requirements for getting a created mission to show up in game? I have followed the usual steps for SH3/4 with naming the folder the same as the .mis file, etc but cannot get the mission to show up in game no matter what.

I think there is a new step I am missing?
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Old 03-06-2010, 11:41 AM   #18
bigboywooly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitizedsoul View Post
Very intersting indeed and thank you for taking the time to post all that here for reference sake.

The nodes are indeed a new variable, but I think for working with the campaign it will prove invaluable.


On a simpler note, are there any special requirements for getting a created mission to show up in game? I have followed the usual steps for SH3/4 with naming the folder the same as the .mis file, etc but cannot get the mission to show up in game no matter what.

I think there is a new step I am missing?
Have you looked at the ingame missions
They have a tsr file also - same as SH4 - aside that I cant see any issue with it not working
And remember to save as a MISGE file not a MIS

Further to the node discussion





As there are no ship links on the campaign files against the nodes am guessing the game pulls any ship from within the roster
Which makes placing units historically a bit difficult

Wonder if a PM to a dev will get some answers
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Old 03-06-2010, 03:13 PM   #19
ddrgn
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I was having similar issues. One being I couldn't find the dock overlay, was pretty simple to add ships docked at a port in SH3/4 now I can't see the dock to lay them out. Working on figuring that out as well.
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Old 03-07-2010, 12:03 PM   #20
digitizedsoul
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.misGE did the trick. That is new from SH3/4 to my knowledge, .MIS used to be suffice.


I see what you mean about the roster pulls. Unless there are new reference files we are unaware of, it is randomly pulling as far as I can tell. The only way to place historical units would be to create roster entries and that gets......

On 2nd thought that would be far too much trouble.
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Old 03-07-2010, 12:26 PM   #21
longdog499
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So could you lay out the necessary files and file names and the file paths for something as simple as putting a Uboat in the Baltic and getting it to show up and work in the game?
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Old 03-07-2010, 01:19 PM   #22
bigboywooly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitizedsoul View Post
.misGE did the trick. That is new from SH3/4 to my knowledge, .MIS used to be suffice.


I see what you mean about the roster pulls. Unless there are new reference files we are unaware of, it is randomly pulling as far as I can tell. The only way to place historical units would be to create roster entries and that gets......

On 2nd thought that would be far too much trouble.
Damn forgot the misge
Was something they introduced in SH4 to keep the German campaign seperate from the US - stayed as mis
Noticed the choice to pick your side - allied or axis - in the ME so Axis would save as a misge then

Well I think the docked units are random from the roster as they change every patrol
Though I popped into Amsterdam the other day - late 39 - and there were 3 British and 3 German merchants docked together
lol
Which is worrying
In Bergen all merchants were British

So who knows
Did drop a PM to Dan the dev to see if there was a tutorial knocking about or someone who could answer a few questions but no answer
Guess he is busy bug fixing
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:47 PM   #23
digitizedsoul
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I just noticed the allies / axis as well. I am actually very glad they kept this as it will allow MP missions from an allied perspective, as well as SP ones.
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Old 03-10-2010, 10:16 AM   #24
digitizedsoul
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Objectives requirement -

In SH3/4 you did not have to have an objective. If there was none present, the game would start and continue indefinitely until the host ended the session or all players quit.

It seems that now if you don't have an objective, the mission will start and after about 30sec or so display the "mission complete" message and terminate.

Is there a "generic" type of objective you guys are using to satisfy this? Some missions in multiplayer form simply do not require objectives. We don't want someone accidentaly sinking "too much" and ending a mission that everyone else is just starting to enjoy after 2hrs investment (IE: Stock Missions)
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:39 PM   #25
bigboywooly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitizedsoul View Post
Objectives requirement -

In SH3/4 you did not have to have an objective. If there was none present, the game would start and continue indefinitely until the host ended the session or all players quit.

It seems that now if you don't have an objective, the mission will start and after about 30sec or so display the "mission complete" message and terminate.

Is there a "generic" type of objective you guys are using to satisfy this? Some missions in multiplayer form simply do not require objectives. We don't want someone accidentaly sinking "too much" and ending a mission that everyone else is just starting to enjoy after 2hrs investment (IE: Stock Missions)
You can try a cheat
Add in a type of ship not in the mission - say carrier
Put that carrier hundreds of miles away from your mission location and have the objective as sink the carrier
Should never be completed unless campaign has one sail past you
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:53 PM   #26
kylania
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If you do that then the player will have this unachievable (realistically speaking) objective constantly on their screen.

Why would you make a mission without an objective anyway? Obviously you're intending something to happen, why not make that or part of that an objective?
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Old 03-10-2010, 05:29 PM   #27
piri_reis
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Ok, I've been studying the mission editor (ME) and the campaign system, and it seems pretty complicated. Here's a few things I figured out, sort of

  • Stock Campaign Project files (*.pj) are in data\Campaigns\CampaignProjects
  • You can open them in ME and access the different missions it contains.
  • The missions (*.mis files) are like layers added to the project. They are displayed as a list on the right, and can be filtered for viewing.
  • The highlighted mission is the one you will be modifying at the moment.
  • New layers can be created (using Add New Mission) or existing ones added (Add Existing Mission)
  • Campaign->Edit Campaign will give you options to add Objectives/Macro Objectives. (saved in Campaign.cfg and .tsr files)
  • Campaign->Edit Groups will open a tool that allows you define Groups of ships. These are named lists which are used when creating convoys/taskforces/wolfpacks using Nodes. (more on that later)
  • Groups are saved in two files: GroupTypes.cfg and GroupTypeDefs.cfg.
NODES:
  • There are three node categories. Path, Generator and Spawn.
  • Path nodes: Generic waypoint in a sense, connects to other path or generator nodes.
  • Generator nodes: These allow you to create entities from the Groups giving them Mission Objectives, such as ReachNode or PatrolNode. Use Right Click on the node->Edit to access this menu.
  • Spawn nodes: I think this is used for docked ships. It has no options so not sure how it pulls from the pool of ships.
So we said path and Generator nodes can be connected to form routes to reach places or to determine patrol areas. For example a Generator Node can be in Wilhemshaven (creating a group of three freighters), which has the objective of "ReachNode=Bergen". The many path nodes connected to each other (like highways, streets..) are used to guide this convoy from Wilhems to Bergen. AI Scripting kicks in during voyage for different actions..


EXAMPLE (Adding docked ships in Kiel)

Ok here's what I did.

  1. Opened TotalGermany39 project. Created a new mission (layer).
  2. File->Add New Misson. Named it "HarborTraffic_PiriReis"
  3. Now you can see your new mission on the list, right hand side.
  4. Located Kiel on the map and zoomed in. Unfortunately no harbor layout is shown. (Update: It's possible!)
  5. But you can see where the Spawn Nodes are placed. (Which btw are in the PlayerBases mission layer.
  6. I created a Supply Ship and couple of Uboats docked to it and placed them on top or near a spawn node (which you'll have to delete to prevent overlapping)
  7. File->Save Project will save all the files including the new mission you have created. Remember to grap a backup of the whole Campaign folder if you like experimenting!



NOTES:

I checked some of the Campaign projects and improvements are apparent already. Random Patrol groups around enemy harbours are set to Competent crews (which is 3/5 difficulty, they're too easy IMHO)

Ships running wild in harbor, for example in Kiel, could be node placement or the harbor is not deep enough at places, the terrain wasn't leveled properly creating shallow spots entering the canal, making the AI avoid and do silly stuff...

Convoys and their escorts (which are defined in the GroupDefs Tool) will definitely benefit looking over by an experienced campaign designer, like BBW

Lots to explore and understand with these new tools, especially the campaign objectives and how they are tied to each other is complicated as hell.
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Lt.z.S. Barbaros Hayreddin, U-35, 2nd Flot/Kiel, Type VIIB
Oct.29.1939, 2nd Patrol Eastern English Waters
Running SH5/TWOS

Last edited by piri_reis; 03-11-2010 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 03-10-2010, 05:39 PM   #28
longdog499
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Thanks piri reis. This is great.
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:57 AM   #29
piri_reis
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Just wanted to pass a message from Pintea.

Here's how to use the harbor layout in Mission Editor.
Add the data\Terrain\LocationMaps\editor_locations.mis as an "Existing Mission" to your project. This will add many Map Location objects to your project. (Which will overlay the corresponding dds graphics files located in the same folder)

To edit and view these you have to turn on the "Map Locations Edit Mode". And zoom in to observe.

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Oct.29.1939, 2nd Patrol Eastern English Waters
Running SH5/TWOS
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:07 PM   #30
digitizedsoul
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Piri -

Your contributions to this thread are extremely valued and appreciated.

Please thank Pintea for me as well for his discovery of that additional and not obvious layer to add. Eventually we can form all this information together and contribute to the SH5 Wiki or something like that but for right now this thread is perfect.

Again, THANK YOU for your contributions / discoveries!
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