[QUE] Requests for wide-rez interface

karamazovnew · 01-27-10, 03:05 PM

I've been wondering...
How many people would like a wide-rez interface mod? SH5 might go bust (not proven until release) so we might end up playing SH3 for a long time to come. A wide-rez interface has been requested many times, but the problem is complex. I'd like to tackle this, but only if I see a pattern forming of your wants and needs. The amount of work involved is simply immense and it would take months, be finished sometime during the next winter. The last thing I'd like is to see it downloaded 100 times

. At least this thread would point out the necessity of such a mod. We might find in the end that it's pointless and stop caring about it.

Since I can't start a poll with so many features, please answer the following questions in the same template. Counting them would be easier if you don't make jokes about soup

.

Q1: What Interface do you use in SH3?
A: ACM gui

Q2: What aspect ratio would you like to use (or type the resolution)
A: 1920x1200 or 16:10

Q3: How many screens would you like redone (please keep in mind that text will still be stretched):
A: Main bars and periscope screens should be enough for me...

Q4: Other comments?
A: Don't expect this to be done fast... It might not even be feasable unless you all want to use the same interface mod. It can only be done for a specific aspect ratio. Most probably 16:10 since most monitors now use this resolution. In that case, 16:9 screens would see a 0.9 vertical deformation. (current deformation is 0.75). Plus, many items simply can't be changed (such as the periscope bearing text). Also, such an enterprise would require a rebuild from scratch of the SH interface. This is by far NOT easy.

Hitman · 01-27-10, 03:27 PM

I would certainly like that! So far I have kept a 4:3 monitor which was difficult to find (20 inches) but it works perfectly with SH3, IL2 and older games that require 4:3

I have a better, 16:9 TV/monitor, but I'm keeping it for TV use for now. It allows me to push a button and adapt it to 4:3, but while modding it gets unconfortable to do it repeatedly.

Kara, if you are looking into this we could discuss some ideas I had for simplifying it a lot (They arised duirng my work for my new interface). Basically, I had thought of moving most of the interface part to the general layout menu (The main menu bar), so that we can avoid having to do it several times for all screens, and such.

For example, leave in both scopes and UZO station just the eyeport and the torpedo lights and fire knob, as well as the chrono start button (NO need to leave the chrono itself there, as the JonZ draggable one can be used in the menu bar). Eliminate the useless notepad, and move the TDC to the menu bar, as slide out or pop-up via button.

The approach should be modular, i.e.

-First adapt the periscopes/uzo screens and menu bar
-Then go for other stations in later releases (if ever)

The main problem I see is the game map. I don't think it will be possible to have the game rescale the lines you draw there. But the other stations could be probably arranged.

How are you intending to rework the needles in the TDC, etc? I can understand how the rounded dials can be reworked (Using vertically stretched graphics), but the needles is a different matter, because they actually rotate!

Also, there are different wide-screen rations ... not just 16:9

makman94 · 01-27-10, 04:14 PM

@Kara ...you are a 'hero' if you start this !!

but ,just my opinion here guys, i really like the way that sh3 looks on my wide monitor ! not joking....really like it ! once i turned it to 4:3 just to see it (use so long time the wide screen stretched images) ....then i definetely can say that i like more the stretched images !
only....my opinion guys.....don't 'shoot' !!!

karamazovnew · 01-27-10, 05:18 PM

Forgot about the needles. That rules out the possibility of a circular AOBF. The problem also extends to each dial background. Even if you make the dial image "square", the invisible "command" dial needs to be bigger than the dial. And dials need to have heigth=length so in effect they'll invisibly extend vertically. You need a lot of space between the dials or you'll end up clicking more than one at a time.

True, the entire TDC can be moved to OLC's "Autoupdate page". Thus, all the scope screens can remain completely blank. The Fire and Tubes buttons have to remain in the Periscope Page (actually, I think they can be moved in SH3 to the Layout page, in SH4 it wasn't possible and the game would crash).
Text is clearly out of the question. The Recognition manual is mostly hard-coded but doesn't matter since all images can be scaled.

The map isn't a problem, as the mouse will always move a bit faster horizontally. I don't see any need to rescale it. We only need to remake all of the images.
Text is a problem and it will always be squashed.

But the needles..... there's a deal breaker. Or not... If the needles are simple lines, I could make an overlay with a hole in the middle so the "Extra" length will disappear under it. It would look ugly tho... and no AOBF.

codmander · 01-27-10, 07:34 PM

wide screen is awesome even with the out of round scope still tho would be nice to have it normal

Reece · 01-27-10, 09:42 PM

Yes the main 2 problems since we have the HiRes mod is the widescreen problem and the disappearing mouse!

I can't understand why Rubini's mod only works with nvidia cards, seems funny that setting a value in cameras.dat would depend on the card, I have played around with this file for some time with no joy.

onelifecrisis · 01-28-10, 12:45 AM

@Reece
The 3D view has already been fixed for widescreen.

@Kara
How do you plan to make the dials on the GUI round instead of oval? As Hitman said, the needles can't be stretched because they rotate.

@Hitman
There is a file that controls the map... and (stretching my memory here) I think it allowed the specification of different horizontal/vertical scaling values. I've not got SH3 installed so I can't check whether it works, but it's worth a try.

Reece · 01-28-10, 12:51 AM

I wish that were true OLC, as far as I know that is only for nvidia cards (Rubini's mod), please say I'm wrong!!

Then point me to a download!

Fingers crossed!

onelifecrisis · 01-28-10, 01:19 AM

@Reece
I didn't realise it was an nvidia-only fix. I thought he fixed it by changing the viewport settings in cameras.dat? Doesn't that work on ATI cards? It used to work on mine.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147044

onelifecrisis · 01-28-10, 01:24 AM

Hmm, sorry, I skim-read the last pages of his thread just now and I see nobody got it working on ATI. Weird. That's another hurdle for Kara, then.

Reece · 01-28-10, 02:55 AM

Yes, you have to wonder why altering the game settings would effect specific video cards!

Corsair · 01-28-10, 05:21 AM

@ Hitman

Regarding IL2, if you use IL2 Stab, it will allow you to play in widescreen resolutions (I fly 1680 x 1050)...
For SH3 I use the same resolution.

karamazovnew · 01-28-10, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

@Kara
How do you plan to make the dials on the GUI round instead of oval? As Hitman said, the needles can't be stretched because they rotate.

No idea... absolutely none

And by "needle" I mean any round rotating object.

Ok then, let's talk about functionality... All the items in the interface are stretched but with the wide-rez fix, the 3d view through the periscope is proportioned correctly. So the main problem for someone trying to play like that is the periscope backgrounds and the periscope markings right? That should be simple to fix for any aspect ratio just by scaling the respective images on the horizontal while leaving the canvas size as it is, right?

Hitman · 01-28-10, 09:41 AM

Quote:

@ Hitman

Regarding IL2, if you use IL2 Stab, it will allow you to play in widescreen resolutions (I fly 1680 x 1050)...
For SH3 I use the same resolution.

Oh, many thanks!! I'll look into it.

Quote:

So the main problem for someone trying to play like that is the periscope backgrounds and the periscope markings right? That should be simple to fix for any aspect ratio just by scaling the respective images on the horizontal while leaving the canvas size as it is, right?

Yes, that is what I said. Anything that doesn't actually move has no problems at all. The problem are the needles inside dials, which rotate and will look larger when positioned horizontally, than when vertically.

Quote:

the 3d view through the periscope is proportioned correctly

The solution to the problem might actually be in that

We know that anything 2D will not get rescaled, and that dials will therefore look horrible when they rotate ... but we know positively that 3D WILL rescale correctly. So ... the logical solution is to actually do all the needed stuff in 3D, and create a functionality that allows using the interface like that.

For example: Clicking periscope camera takes you not to the 2D station, but instead to the seat in the periscope housing. You sit there in 3D and have at arm's reach the 3D TDC, which works and is clickable, and which we can do with a much better resolution and reposition in a more comfortable place. Then, to look inside the periscope we would click on the eyepiece and see simply a flat black screen with the Papenberg at the left (That's the bubble and indicator for periscope heigth) and the lights and fire button on the right. Nothing else, no notepad crap and such, which is anyway not needed (And in any case could be rescaled). When you have made your estimations you right-click and are back in your saddle, can rotate the camera with a wrist movement of your mouse, adn be ready to input all in the 3D TDC with some mouse clicks. Once the TDC is updated, you click on the "Follow" button to link it to the optics, and can click into teh ocular to see again in 2D.

We can resize to the necessary proportions almost anything that is in the tools bar, and add/remove items.

The solution to this problem, is to go the SH5 way ---> A 3D fully interactive Uboat

and eliminate as much 2D stuff as possible.

01-28-10, 11:04 AM

That would be the greatest thing possible, except for the unlikely resuming GWX4 project. I wish to be wrong in my thoughts, but I have a strong feeling that SH 5 will be almost a disaster from the simulation point of view and a hit from the arcade type gaming perspective, so I believe that sticking to SH III would be the only viable option. So, the modders like karamazovnew and others are the only ones who can save the day, not the developers.

01-27-10, 03:05 PM	#1
karamazovnew The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 1,403 Downloads: 151 Uploads: 0	[QUE] Requests for wide-rez interface I've been wondering... How many people would like a wide-rez interface mod? SH5 might go bust (not proven until release) so we might end up playing SH3 for a long time to come. A wide-rez interface has been requested many times, but the problem is complex. I'd like to tackle this, but only if I see a pattern forming of your wants and needs. The amount of work involved is simply immense and it would take months, be finished sometime during the next winter. The last thing I'd like is to see it downloaded 100 times . At least this thread would point out the necessity of such a mod. We might find in the end that it's pointless and stop caring about it. Since I can't start a poll with so many features, please answer the following questions in the same template. Counting them would be easier if you don't make jokes about soup . Q1: What Interface do you use in SH3? A: ACM gui Q2: What aspect ratio would you like to use (or type the resolution) A: 1920x1200 or 16:10 Q3: How many screens would you like redone (please keep in mind that text will still be stretched): A: Main bars and periscope screens should be enough for me... Q4: Other comments? A: Don't expect this to be done fast... It might not even be feasable unless you all want to use the same interface mod. It can only be done for a specific aspect ratio. Most probably 16:10 since most monitors now use this resolution. In that case, 16:9 screens would see a 0.9 vertical deformation. (current deformation is 0.75). Plus, many items simply can't be changed (such as the periscope bearing text). Also, such an enterprise would require a rebuild from scratch of the SH interface. This is by far NOT easy.

01-27-10, 03:27 PM	#2
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	I would certainly like that! So far I have kept a 4:3 monitor which was difficult to find (20 inches) but it works perfectly with SH3, IL2 and older games that require 4:3 I have a better, 16:9 TV/monitor, but I'm keeping it for TV use for now. It allows me to push a button and adapt it to 4:3, but while modding it gets unconfortable to do it repeatedly. Kara, if you are looking into this we could discuss some ideas I had for simplifying it a lot (They arised duirng my work for my new interface). Basically, I had thought of moving most of the interface part to the general layout menu (The main menu bar), so that we can avoid having to do it several times for all screens, and such. For example, leave in both scopes and UZO station just the eyeport and the torpedo lights and fire knob, as well as the chrono start button (NO need to leave the chrono itself there, as the JonZ draggable one can be used in the menu bar). Eliminate the useless notepad, and move the TDC to the menu bar, as slide out or pop-up via button. The approach should be modular, i.e. -First adapt the periscopes/uzo screens and menu bar -Then go for other stations in later releases (if ever) The main problem I see is the game map. I don't think it will be possible to have the game rescale the lines you draw there. But the other stations could be probably arranged. How are you intending to rework the needles in the TDC, etc? I can understand how the rounded dials can be reworked (Using vertically stretched graphics), but the needles is a different matter, because they actually rotate! Also, there are different wide-screen rations ... not just 16:9 __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

01-27-10, 04:14 PM	#3
makman94 Hellas Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,325 Downloads: 182 Uploads: 7	@Kara ...you are a 'hero' if you start this !! but ,just my opinion here guys, i really like the way that sh3 looks on my wide monitor ! not joking....really like it ! once i turned it to 4:3 just to see it (use so long time the wide screen stretched images) ....then i definetely can say that i like more the stretched images ! only....my opinion guys.....don't 'shoot' !!! __________________ Knowledge is the only thing that nobody can ever take from you... Mediafire page:http://www.mediafire.com/folder/da50.../Makman94_Mods

01-27-10, 09:42 PM	#6
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,701 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Yes the main 2 problems since we have the HiRes mod is the widescreen problem and the disappearing mouse! I can't understand why Rubini's mod only works with nvidia cards, seems funny that setting a value in cameras.dat would depend on the card, I have played around with this file for some time with no joy. __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!* Last edited by Reece; 01-29-10 at 02:11 AM.

01-28-10, 12:45 AM	#7
onelifecrisis Maverick Modder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: England Posts: 3,895 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 3	@Reece The 3D view has already been fixed for widescreen. @Kara How do you plan to make the dials on the GUI round instead of oval? As Hitman said, the needles can't be stretched because they rotate. @Hitman There is a file that controls the map... and (stretching my memory here) I think it allowed the specification of different horizontal/vertical scaling values. I've not got SH3 installed so I can't check whether it works, but it's worth a try. __________________ Freedom of speech - priceless. For everything else there's Mastercard.

01-27-10, 05:18 PM	#4
karamazovnew The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 1,403 Downloads: 151 Uploads: 0	Forgot about the needles. That rules out the possibility of a circular AOBF. The problem also extends to each dial background. Even if you make the dial image "square", the invisible "command" dial needs to be bigger than the dial. And dials need to have heigth=length so in effect they'll invisibly extend vertically. You need a lot of space between the dials or you'll end up clicking more than one at a time. True, the entire TDC can be moved to OLC's "Autoupdate page". Thus, all the scope screens can remain completely blank. The Fire and Tubes buttons have to remain in the Periscope Page (actually, I think they can be moved in SH3 to the Layout page, in SH4 it wasn't possible and the game would crash). Text is clearly out of the question. The Recognition manual is mostly hard-coded but doesn't matter since all images can be scaled. The map isn't a problem, as the mouse will always move a bit faster horizontally. I don't see any need to rescale it. We only need to remake all of the images. Text is a problem and it will always be squashed. But the needles..... there's a deal breaker. Or not... If the needles are simple lines, I could make an overlay with a hole in the middle so the "Extra" length will disappear under it. It would look ugly tho... and no AOBF.

01-27-10, 07:34 PM	#5
codmander Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: cape cod mass. Posts: 678 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	wide screen is awesome even with the out of round scope still tho would be nice to have it normal

01-28-10, 12:51 AM	#8
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,701 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	I wish that were true OLC, as far as I know that is only for nvidia cards (Rubini's mod), please say I'm wrong!! Then point me to a download! Fingers crossed! __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

01-28-10, 01:19 AM	#9
onelifecrisis Maverick Modder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: England Posts: 3,895 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 3	@Reece I didn't realise it was an nvidia-only fix. I thought he fixed it by changing the viewport settings in cameras.dat? Doesn't that work on ATI cards? It used to work on mine. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147044 __________________ Freedom of speech - priceless. For everything else there's Mastercard.

01-28-10, 01:24 AM	#10
onelifecrisis Maverick Modder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: England Posts: 3,895 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 3	Hmm, sorry, I skim-read the last pages of his thread just now and I see nobody got it working on ATI. Weird. That's another hurdle for Kara, then. __________________ Freedom of speech - priceless. For everything else there's Mastercard.

01-28-10, 02:55 AM	#11
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,701 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Yes, you have to wonder why altering the game settings would effect specific video cards! __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!* Last edited by Reece; 01-29-10 at 12:18 AM.

01-28-10, 05:21 AM	#12
Corsair Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toulouse France Posts: 1,140 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	@ Hitman Regarding IL2, if you use IL2 Stab, it will allow you to play in widescreen resolutions (I fly 1680 x 1050)... For SH3 I use the same resolution. __________________ NYGM 3.4A / Living SH3 V5.1 + SH3 Commander

01-28-10, 11:04 AM	#15
Gunnodayak Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	That would be the greatest thing possible, except for the unlikely resuming GWX4 project. I wish to be wrong in my thoughts, but I have a strong feeling that SH 5 will be almost a disaster from the simulation point of view and a hit from the arcade type gaming perspective, so I believe that sticking to SH III would be the only viable option. So, the modders like karamazovnew and others are the only ones who can save the day, not the developers.