are our silent hunter games really realistic?

[cjbeattie]

Hi guys

If this has been asked and answered then I apologize in advance…

I was watching the convoy attack scene from 'Das Boot' the other night and what is very noticeable is how un-accurate our sims have it !

Pressing the torpedo button to release the actual torpedo? According to 'Das Boot' the captain doesn’t have buttons to release the torpedoes..

If Das boot is accurate then we need also the crew to convoy your orders through the ship until the torpedo is fired… Having this will make the game so much more realistic..

With number 5 being through the eyes of the captain I think these questions have to be answered..

If the crew look at you like in the video (and that isnt just sales-spin) then that will be very creepy!!!

CJB

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by cjbeattie

Hi guys

If this has been asked and answered then I apologize in advance…

I was watching the convoy attack scene from 'Das Boot' the other night and what is very noticeable is how un-accurate our sims have it !

Pressing the torpedo button to release the actual torpedo? According to 'Das Boot' the captain doesn’t have buttons to release the torpedoes..

If Das boot is accurate then we need also the crew to convoy your orders through the ship until the torpedo is fired… Having this will make the game so much more realistic..

I always considered pressing the button the same thing as giving the order. It's not like there are innumerable corridors, stairwells and bulkheads between you giving the order and somebody pressing the switch in real life. Your orders don't have that far to be conveyed. Frankly, no sim can ever be very realistic as sitting comfortably behind a keyboard you are rather far divorced from the difficult strains and conditions of wartime shipboard life.

[Takeda Shingen]

Also, be advised that Das Boot, although accurate by cinematic standards, is anything but a moving textbook. Be careful when using it as citation.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Sevrin

Maybe it's just me, but I fail to understand the reverence that 'Das Boot' seems to elicit from many on this site. It's almost as if it were a religion to some. Where does that come from?

Me neither. I always enjoyed the movie/mini-series, but always enjoyed the novel it's based on more. It's my understanding that Das Boot author Lothar-Günther Buchheim had some differences with the film's script, but that could be due to his difficult personality too. However, Das Boot like a lot of WW2 films, accurate and inaccurate tend to draw people into the subject matter.

[Stormfly]

...its allready modded, i added a more realistic torpedo launch process (chain of command sounds and fireing delay) to our CSP Special Edition of LSH3 V4

[SteamWake]

Wait a minute... which is more realistic.. A movie or a game

Frankly I believe both take 'libertys'.

[Hylander_1314]

Well, all simulators or games can do, i they are done correctly, is give you a rough in of what it was like to go out and do this stuff. We lack the stench, the pale skin from week upon week of lack of being in the sun, the food rotting the salt spray and all the things that went with the job that we are spared, unless someone is very extreme in how they play the game. But then I would have to say, you need a girlfriend, or boyfriend depending on gender and or preferences, or have way tooooooo much free time on your hands. So in the end there is really no way a game or simulator can realistically capture every little detail. It is impossible.

[mookiemookie]

We can hope that the torpedo firing sequence will be accurately portrayed in SH5. From what I know, the captain (or IWO in the case of a surfaced attack) gave TDC input data from his observations through the periscope (or the IWO's observations through the UZO) and the weapons officer would input the data. once the order was given to fire, the weapons officer would actually punch the button, not the captain or IWO. I'm fine with it as it is though. The same end result is achieved.

And Hylander - Thomas Jefferson never said that. The term "deflation" used to describe an economic concept didn't exist in his day.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by cjbeattie

If Das boot is accurate then we need also the crew to convoy your orders through the ship until the torpedo is fired… Having this will make the game so much more realistic..

I guess you're trying to give rise to discussion here (which is not a bad thing), but to me it's one detail among other (of course it would be cool).

The real feature that will make the game so much more realistic is still uncertain.

[tomoose]

As mentioned, it's impossible to make a simple PC game fully realistic. It's really up to the gamer himself on how "realistic" he/she wants to make the game. i.e. 100% settings, external view/cameras on or off etc. Some elements are simply left to the imagination.
For what it's worth, I find SH4 Speech to be another way to add a touch of "realism" and/or immersion. Saying "Come left 45 degrees" into my headset microphone and hearing the response "Aye, aye sir, new course xxx degrees" is kinda cool. Fortunately there's noone else in the house to hear me apparently speaking/yelling to myself, LOL.

[Highbury]

Originally Posted by tomoose

As mentioned, it's impossible to make a simple PC game fully realistic. It's really up to the gamer himself on how "realistic" he/she wants to make the game. i.e. 100% settings, external view/cameras on or off etc.

This again shows that "realism" is very subject indeed. At 100% you are performing tasks a captain rarely would, if ever (manual torp plotting for example).

It will never be realistic enough for some people unless they are getting spray flying out of their monitor at them on the bridge, and some will feel the game's already too "hardcore" of a sim for them the way it is. /shrug

[Zonke]

If you get water in your face standing on the bridge or not or if you use voice command or not has to do with immersion and not realism I thinks.

When speaking of realism, such things as damage modeling, ships performance, weather, navigation, AI difficulty etc has more to do with realism than whether you press a button to launch the torpedo or whether you press a button to simulate the captain saying "LOS" and someone else presses the button that launches the torpedo :P

Immersion is VERY important though, often more important than realism I thinks..
But I'd certainly like more realism in some areas (especially damage modeling and ships/boats performance).

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Zonke

If you get water in your face standing on the bridge or not or if you use voice command or not has to do with immersion and not realism I thinks.

When speaking of realism, such things as damage modeling, ships performance, weather, navigation, AI difficulty etc has more to do with realism than whether you press a button to launch the torpedo or whether you press a button to simulate the captain saying "LOS" and someone else presses the button that launches the torpedo :P

Immersion is VERY important though, often more important than realism I thinks..
But I'd certainly like more realism in some areas (especially damage modeling and ships/boats performance).

I would say that immersion in a simulation is based on realism (of course it will never be 100% realistic).

Keyfeatures = realism = immersion

Lot of details = lot more realism = a more immersive game

I guess we will have to rely on the modding community to have a more immersive game.

[JU_88]

SH is realistic enough to make an enjoyable game which is all it is at the end of the day.

Pressing a button to launch a torpeedo just makes the process managable via a user interface on screen, remove the buttons / UI and how do you propose we control anything?

perhaps by giving an order? which subsequently would still have to be done via a menu system, no?
Unless we use voice activation - but personally i dont want to shout at my PC like an idiot.

Which ever way you look at it you still are still using a keyboard and mouse to control a Virtual Uboat which is made up of a bunch of geometry on a flat screen display.
IMHO thats not very realistic either... anyways...

Like Silent Hunter, Das Boot and Iron coffins are all 'based on real events' but are designed primarily for entertainment.
Niether of them are very credible from a historical point of view.

[Hylander_1314]

Originally Posted by tomoose

As mentioned, it's impossible to make a simple PC game fully realistic. It's really up to the gamer himself on how "realistic" he/she wants to make the game. i.e. 100% settings, external view/cameras on or off etc. Some elements are simply left to the imagination.
For what it's worth, I find SH4 Speech to be another way to add a touch of "realism" and/or immersion. Saying "Come left 45 degrees" into my headset microphone and hearing the response "Aye, aye sir, new course xxx degrees" is kinda cool. Fortunately there's noone else in the house to hear me apparently speaking/yelling to myself, LOL.

tomoose, with voice activation, can you set it up so that if you give an order like say, steer right standard rudder 10 degrees, and come to course 320? Is that possible so the helmsman doesn't use that graduating full rudder and slowly returns to rudder amidships. The reason I ask, is that at full rudder, or the harder you turn, the more speed you lose.

Thanks in advance for any info.