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Old 08-27-2009, 02:09 PM   #31
iambecomelife
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Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
Tie the funnel to the snorkel, and set the diesel engine working depth in a manner that even surfaced it won't start unless the snorkel is raised
I have settled on SH4 as a platform, so is the snorkel included? Yes, I am that clueless - I have about 20-24 hrs of SH4 patrols under my belt!
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Old 08-27-2009, 04:26 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by iambecomelife View Post
I have settled on SH4 as a platform, so is the snorkel included? Yes, I am that clueless - I have about 20-24 hrs of SH4 patrols under my belt!
there is one but I don't think it was implemented, I know Peabody made our for the IJN mod, I think there's one in Operation Monsun too.

can you post pictures of the sub you are working on please ?

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Old 08-27-2009, 06:23 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by iambecomelife View Post
I have settled on SH4 as a platform, so is the snorkel included?
There is a snorkel 3D model in the library/GerSubParts/Senzori_uboat.dat but there is no 3D model for the US side. As Keltos said it is not implimented. When it is implimented you get a couple knots more speed submerged but it does not do anything about the CO2 levels.

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Old 08-27-2009, 09:35 PM   #34
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Sledgehammer & Keltos, I will be sending you additional details & screenshots by PM soon. If anyone else is familiar with making playable subs or can help with research, etc feel free to contact me!
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Old 08-28-2009, 03:00 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by iambecomelife View Post
Sledgehammer & Keltos, I will be sending you additional details & screenshots by PM soon. If anyone else is familiar with making playable subs or can help with research, etc feel free to contact me!
I just found where you've been all this time

the SH3 forum !

keltos
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Old 08-28-2009, 03:24 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by keltos01 View Post
I just found where you've been all this time

the SH3 forum !

keltos
Yes; this is going to be my first mod for SH4 (not counting merchant vessels other people ported over for me).
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Old 08-28-2009, 05:57 PM   #37
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I await your PM with bated breath IABL
I also found my copy of The Kaiser's Uboats by osprey publishing, in eBook format, so I can help with the playable boats
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:23 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427 View Post
I await your PM with bated breath IABL
I also found my copy of The Kaiser's Uboats by osprey publishing, in eBook format, so I can help with the playable boats
a good book indeed I have a couple more like "anti submarine warfare in WWI" and

British submarines of WWI - they had hunter-killer submarines capable of 15 knots submerged !

also : "the encyclopedia of uboots from 1904 to the present"

"HM Submarines in Camera 1901-1996"





U-1"Jane's Submarine war beneath the waves 1776-"


a documentary : Gallipoli Submarine

a movie (1933) : Morgenrot (filmed in a WWI sub in 1933, an early Das Boot)


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Old 08-28-2009, 10:01 PM   #39
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Thank you for all the assistance.

Today I have been using the stock SH4 ships as testbeds for some of the ideas I want to incorporate - for instance, better AI launched torpedoes & appropriate behavior for neutral merchants when they encounter the player sub. Tomorrow I will send some screenshots & a text document to you guys with a list of features &c.
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:03 PM   #40
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The biggest obstacle to a proper WWI sim on the SH engine is the inability to operate under the prize rules.
I think when you study this subject in-depth you will realize SH needs A LOT more than juts prize rules to play like a real WWI sim.

To this reason alone SH was never an option for my own project.

Quote:
So obviously we could get SH to look like a WWI game, but can we get it to play like one?
Even if it would just look like one I would subscribe to it. And I think the answere to your question is clearly NO.

I think there is a number of things that can be get out of SH. Obviously you would need to remove all asdics. The early war hydrophones need to be ****ty and not even all ships have them, include air ships/blimps.

Are q-ships even possible in SH ?

But so many other things would be still missing, a hell of a lot of minefields(especially the early british mines were malfunctioning but overall mines were omnipresent and a big probelm, big navigational challenge ( but there is no realistic navigation in SH ) ), many huge nets, there are no nets towed by ships to fish for you and stuff. No early war towed water bombs, no flares ect, ect.

As the war progresses there would need to be SOSUS systems on british coasts, remote controlled mine fields, beam barriers( britain exploited the circumstance that the german torpedos had no safety mechanism. Once put in the tube they would go off when it would collide with the tube hatch, so british forces would tow a long chain of heavy logs at night across the channel for example. At night the u-boat would not see it and collide with it and the torpedo in the tube would slide against the tube hatch and detonate. I don't know how many u-boats got lost this way but england would try any trick at hand and there was a lot going on back then. It is interesting to mention that the german boats would always dismount the warheads and store them seperately from the torpedos below the floor plates, specially secured ), light buoys and chains of boats illuminating the straight of dover barrier by burning magnesium and big spot lights on the coasts at night.

All sort of spy boats, drifter at night listening with hydrophones for you and stuff. In good weather when an u-boat is detected somewhere, everything afloat would be sent out to hunt it or just keep it submerged till it suffocates. Especially in WWI you have a myriad of auxillary vehicles of all sorts ( since nothing else was available or would be detached ). This is the main force you have to deal with actually and not destroyers, at least not in the first half of the war. A lot of armed fish trawlers, yachts, sail boats and stuff.

The british fleet command would be very stingy with detaching destroyers and torpedo boats for ASW duty especially early in the war since they wanted to keep them ready for the fleet, since at that time everything was awaiting the decisive battle with the german fleet. And of course british subs would be always after you when you leave or return to port.

Contraband classification would be changing constantly. Somewhere into the war you would receive almost daily radio messages with new contraband that you would have to add to the list while removing others from it. So you would have to go through the lists every time and see if you are still dealing with contraband. This are just some random examples and not even to mentioned the peculiarities of the WWI technologies and different operational procedures.

There is so much needed for a proper WWI sim. Overall WWI is so much different from WWII, there is so so much that is overlooked, I can easily bubble all night long about it. Anybody who studied it realizes that.

But even if most of this is not possible just driving this old boats would be a fresh new wind and certainly appreciated. I was waiting for this, so go ahead.
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:10 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keltos01 View Post
a documentary : Gallipoli Submarine
Where can I get hold of it ?

Quote:
a movie (1933) : Morgenrot (filmed in a WWI sub in 1933, an early Das Boot)
This is one badass movie It's better than Das Boot, imo.
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Old 08-29-2009, 03:38 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Deamon View Post
Where can I get hold of it ?

This is one badass movie It's better than Das Boot, imo.
I have it, I found it on mininova I think, but it's 700 mb... and my internet connection isn't working great these days but I should change provider soon, will try and upload then.

so you saw Morgenrot ? do you know if there are any subtitles outthere ? I speak some german, but not enough...

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Old 08-29-2009, 04:08 AM   #43
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[quote=Deamon;1161141]I think when you study this subject in-depth you will realize SH needs A LOT more than juts prize rules to play like a real WWI sim.

To this reason alone SH was never an option for my own project.
what was the option you'd have preferred then ?

Even if it would just look like one I would subscribe to it.
ever tried
Die Schalen der Zorns ? made by Rondomedia

And I think the answere to your question is clearly NO.

I think there is a number of things that can be get out of SH. Obviously you would need to remove all asdics. The early war hydrophones need to be ****ty and not even all ships have them, include air ships/blimps.
and they had to stop the engines to use them..

Are q-ships even possible in SH ?
maybe make the guns visible at very short range only ?

But so many other things would be still missing, a hell of a lot of minefields(especially the early british mines were malfunctioning but overall mines were omnipresent and a big probelm, big navigational challenge ( but there is no realistic navigation in SH ) )
they closed off the north sea between Norway and Scotland with mines...

, many huge nets, there are no nets towed by ships to fish for you and stuff. No early war towed water bombs, no flares ect, ect.

As the war progresses there would need to be SOSUS systems on british coasts, remote controlled mine fields,
what are those ?

beam barriers( britain exploited the circumstance that the german torpedos had no safety mechanism. Once put in the tube they would go off when it would collide with the tube hatch, so british forces would tow a long chain of heavy logs at night across the channel for example. At night the u-boat would not see it and collide with it and the torpedo in the tube would slide against the tube hatch and detonate.



All sort of spy boats, drifter at night listening with hydrophones for you and stuff.
late war then.

In good weather when an u-boat is detected somewhere, everything afloat would be sent out to hunt it or just keep it submerged till it suffocates. Especially in WWI you have a myriad of auxillary vehicles of all sorts ( since nothing else was available or would be detached ). This is the main force you have to deal with actually and not destroyers, at least not in the first half of the war. A lot of armed fish trawlers, yachts, sail boats and stuff.
you sure did your research !

Contraband classification would be changing constantly.
that's gonna be hard to implement in SH4... how do you search ships ???

This are just some random examples and not even to mentioned the peculiarities of the WWI technologies and different operational procedures.

There is so much needed for a proper WWI sim. Overall WWI is so much different from WWII, there is so so much that is overlooked, I can easily bubble all night long about it. Anybody who studied it realizes that.
yeah but still, Die Schalen der Zorns isn't that bad, just looks awful...

But even if most of this is not possible just driving this old boats would be a fresh new wind and certainly appreciated. I was waiting for this, so go ahead.

who will write the campaign layers ?

I'll help any way I can though..

keltos

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Old 08-29-2009, 05:02 AM   #44
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Quote:
beam barriers( britain exploited the circumstance that the german torpedos had no safety mechanism. Once put in the tube they would go off when it would collide with the tube hatch, so british forces would tow a long chain of heavy logs at night across the channel for example. At night the u-boat would not see it and collide with it and the torpedo in the tube would slide against the tube hatch and detonate.
I died laughing when I read that. how simple that is

I remember reading that the only defense they (the brits) had for scapa flow was a bunch of enlisted in rowboats with hammers, when spotting a german periscope, they would row over and smash the periscope until it disappeared
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Old 08-29-2009, 10:01 AM   #45
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Sledgehammer and Keltos, check your PM's please.

And Deamon, my mod's intended to be an approximation of WWI warfare within the limitations of SH4. I agree that the Silent Hunter series does not take a precison-oriented "study sim" approach to underwater craft. This is basically going to be an effort to give SH4 a WWI flavor - not replicate some of the more complicated aspects in detail. However, some crucial features definitely will be included. Q-ships are in, as are mine barrages. I have thought of a way to implement contraband searching for merchants, thanks to the excellent S3ditor v 9.9 - this is being tested at the moment.

For a detailed WWI sub sim we'll have to wait for your mod (which I want now - badly - but that's another story!) Thanks for your comments.
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