Sonar sweeping

barney · 06-20-09, 04:59 PM

When I'm submerged in SHIV does the Sonar Officer constantly sweep? I think SHIII had a key for that.

Loud_Silence · 06-20-09, 06:36 PM

Yup, the sonarman is always sweeping by default. In fact, since fleet boats have the hydrophone head below the keel, they also sweep while on the surface, but with a limited effectiveness

Stealhead · 06-20-09, 07:08 PM

The hyrophone is not only on the keel have ever seen that thing on your port bow that spins? That is passive sonar for the deck and those balls at the bottom are transducers for the acitve sonar.

They sweep on thier own but they will only report a conact inside the "range" of the set you have at the time so if you listen yourself you may vaguely hear something the game wont alert you about.

The game is funny about the soundman giving updates though often you must keep clicking the tab that tells him to report nearst contact.

06-20-09, 08:41 PM

Stealhead wrote...

Quote:

They sweep on thier own but they will only report a conact inside the "range" of the set you have at the time...

I don't understand, what do you mean by this? Are you referring to tha max range of the sonar?

I recently passed a merchant while submerged and I could hear him on the sonar but my soundmen could not. The range was less than 3000yds. Funny, it was a modern tanker (10,000 tons) and it was anchored in the harbor but I could hear screws. I went and checked with the external camera and the screws were not turning(and he was not moving) but he was the only possible source around. There was no sonar line on the nav screen either although there was one in another direction for a warship. I am running stock SH4 v.1.5 with GFO Mod. I thought by v.1.5 most all the bugs were gone?

tomoose · 06-20-09, 09:47 PM

..not all the bugs are gone (wait 'til the rubber dinghy bumps into your hull,LOL). I haven't experienced the issue you describe but I never played 1.5 stock I went to TMO and RSRD immediately (that's what I had with 1.4). So perhaps it's just a 'stock' problem.

06-20-09, 10:04 PM

I just reinstalled SH4 and added the UBoat Missions. I had been running v.1.4 for about a year with TMO. I thought I'd run stock with GFO for a little while and see what it was like. The destroyers are just too easy after TMO! It might be about time to try RFB.

Stealhead · 06-20-09, 11:25 PM

Urge you have not ever seen the T-shaped device on the port bow on any american sub? by 1943 you will have one unless you have an S-boat take a look in the museum you will see it that my friend is a passive sonar array and that sucker is not on the keel. And the two ball shaped devices at the bottom of the sub on the keel those are sonar transducers they are what sends the ping. with your bug are you sure that the srews where coming form the direction of the tanker if they where then you have something messing up.

I am saying that you will be able on your own to here something than the AI will not. You will be able to hear things are well beyond the max range but not very well these you can hear but the AI soundman wont.You are going to be disapointed with RFB they did not make the AI as hard as TMO has.

Loud_Silence · 06-21-09, 05:34 AM

Ok, lets see:

This is a Balao boat, or "Embarcación de flota clase Balao", in spanish. You can see two balls below. Those are the sonar components.
Right on the deck you can see that T-shaped thing. It looks like the air search radar to me, since it only spins while on the surface and you can't turn it on and off like the surface search radar.
And on the mast, there you have the periscopes and the surface search radar antenna (not visible here)

Platapus · 06-21-09, 07:48 AM

The sonar equipment on a Submarine is complicated but very interesting to study.

The "T" shaped piece of equipment is the pick up for the JP receiver. JP collects sounds in the audible frequency range

The two "balls" under the sub are actually two different sensors.

On the Starboard is the QB sensor and on the Port side is the JK/QC

These are used to collect sounds in the supersonic (inaudible) frequency ranges.

While both the QB and QC can be used for active "pinging", Normally only the QB is used. There is another system called NM which is only used to determine depth under Keel.

One thing I did not know was that the JP operator is not in the conning tower but in the Forward Torpedo Room. Gee Hollywood always has him in the control room.

A very good source about the different sonar systems on American Fleet Submarines can be accessed at

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/sonar/chap1.htm

I can, and have, spent hours reading these technical manuals. So glad such information is online.

Stealhead · 06-21-09, 12:09 PM

I dont know why in the world anyone would think that a hydryphone head is an air search radar.Unless of course you where unawre that the SD radar does not rotate and can be raised so that it can extend above the water when the sub is at periscope deapth.For some reason the head only spins on the surface and not underwater but that is no air search radar.Though it would be obvious to me that that is no radar it would be useless at such a postion.The SD radar is on top 3rd periascope(which no longer is used for optics the one most to the rear or the boat.)The SD radar does not sweep anyway.You are thinking you know Platapus and I are knowing we know.

Like Platpus said those are two diffrent type of device and they can both ping if the need arises they could also be retcacted inside the boat when not in use something that you cant do in SH4.All though that is not the olny type of sonar systems that where used there was also JT and WFA.The JT is pretty much the same as the JP head t was just larger and better with WFA there was also a super sonic transducer topside.Some WCA had a topside transducer but not all did.

Like Platpus said beter to read the data else where from an online source or book SH4 does not do alot of things correctly.It is not a very good source of information.Well Sh4 pretty much says nothing at all about most of the equipment in it.

Platapus · 06-21-09, 03:35 PM

A more realistic sonar (WCA stack) would be something I would really like in SH4. I think it would be great if there was a sub sim out there where the AI can take over the running of the ship and allow an in depth realistic sonar simulator.... but I am strange like that.

I used to play ATC simulators and if that aint strange, I don't know what is.

Stealhead · 06-21-09, 04:18 PM

Yeah SH4 is not bad but it does not truly fully simulate a WWII era submarine much of the complex things are combined into more than one role like the sonars.I guess though that would be a bit too much for many and being published by a larger company dictates that they cant let it be so complex that it would turn away a more casual player. But SH does do a very good job of interesting people in submarines.

Loud_Silence · 06-21-09, 05:14 PM

Ok... you were right...
Effectively, the T-shaped thing also rotates while submerged, and with the "follow nearest contact" it always points to it

It looks a lot like the navigation radar on modern small boats

Stealhead · 06-21-09, 11:15 PM

Those where not around 60 years ago. And they still mount radars on a higher part of a vessel.I assume you might not have known that you can still use the SJ(surface search) radar just dive you boat to a point that that the dish is not awash and it will run. If you have the proper mods you can raise the SD(air) radar so it will exntend the antenna above the water at periscope deapth. Those are both things they really did do during WWII.

06-20-09, 04:59 PM	#1
barney Watch Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 23 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Sonar sweeping When I'm submerged in SHIV does the Sonar Officer constantly sweep? I think SHIII had a key for that.

06-20-09, 09:47 PM	#5
tomoose Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 930 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	No.. ..not all the bugs are gone (wait 'til the rubber dinghy bumps into your hull,LOL). I haven't experienced the issue you describe but I never played 1.5 stock I went to TMO and RSRD immediately (that's what I had with 1.4). So perhaps it's just a 'stock' problem.

06-21-09, 07:48 AM	#9
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 18,939 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	The sonar equipment on a Submarine is complicated but very interesting to study. The "T" shaped piece of equipment is the pick up for the JP receiver. JP collects sounds in the audible frequency range The two "balls" under the sub are actually two different sensors. On the Starboard is the QB sensor and on the Port side is the JK/QC These are used to collect sounds in the supersonic (inaudible) frequency ranges. While both the QB and QC can be used for active "pinging", Normally only the QB is used. There is another system called NM which is only used to determine depth under Keel. One thing I did not know was that the JP operator is not in the conning tower but in the Forward Torpedo Room. Gee Hollywood always has him in the control room. A very good source about the different sonar systems on American Fleet Submarines can be accessed at http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/sonar/chap1.htm I can, and have, spent hours reading these technical manuals. So glad such information is online. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

06-21-09, 12:09 PM	#10
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I dont know why in the world anyone would think that a hydryphone head is an air search radar.Unless of course you where unawre that the SD radar does not rotate and can be raised so that it can extend above the water when the sub is at periscope deapth.For some reason the head only spins on the surface and not underwater but that is no air search radar.Though it would be obvious to me that that is no radar it would be useless at such a postion.The SD radar is on top 3rd periascope(which no longer is used for optics the one most to the rear or the boat.)The SD radar does not sweep anyway.You are thinking you know Platapus and I are knowing we know. Like Platpus said those are two diffrent type of device and they can both ping if the need arises they could also be retcacted inside the boat when not in use something that you cant do in SH4.All though that is not the olny type of sonar systems that where used there was also JT and WFA.The JT is pretty much the same as the JP head t was just larger and better with WFA there was also a super sonic transducer topside.Some WCA had a topside transducer but not all did. Like Platpus said beter to read the data else where from an online source or book SH4 does not do alot of things correctly.It is not a very good source of information.Well Sh4 pretty much says nothing at all about most of the equipment in it. Last edited by Stealhead; 06-21-09 at 12:35 PM.

06-21-09, 03:35 PM	#11
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 18,939 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	A more realistic sonar (WCA stack) would be something I would really like in SH4. I think it would be great if there was a sub sim out there where the AI can take over the running of the ship and allow an in depth realistic sonar simulator.... but I am strange like that. I used to play ATC simulators and if that aint strange, I don't know what is. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

06-20-09, 06:36 PM	#2
Loud_Silence Planesman Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 193 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yup, the sonarman is always sweeping by default. In fact, since fleet boats have the hydrophone head below the keel, they also sweep while on the surface, but with a limited effectiveness

06-20-09, 07:08 PM	#3
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	The hyrophone is not only on the keel have ever seen that thing on your port bow that spins? That is passive sonar for the deck and those balls at the bottom are transducers for the acitve sonar. They sweep on thier own but they will only report a conact inside the "range" of the set you have at the time so if you listen yourself you may vaguely hear something the game wont alert you about. The game is funny about the soundman giving updates though often you must keep clicking the tab that tells him to report nearst contact.

06-20-09, 10:04 PM	#6
Urge Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I just reinstalled SH4 and added the UBoat Missions. I had been running v.1.4 for about a year with TMO. I thought I'd run stock with GFO for a little while and see what it was like. The destroyers are just too easy after TMO! It might be about time to try RFB.

06-20-09, 11:25 PM	#7
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Urge you have not ever seen the T-shaped device on the port bow on any american sub? by 1943 you will have one unless you have an S-boat take a look in the museum you will see it that my friend is a passive sonar array and that sucker is not on the keel. And the two ball shaped devices at the bottom of the sub on the keel those are sonar transducers they are what sends the ping. with your bug are you sure that the srews where coming form the direction of the tanker if they where then you have something messing up. I am saying that you will be able on your own to here something than the AI will not. You will be able to hear things are well beyond the max range but not very well these you can hear but the AI soundman wont.You are going to be disapointed with RFB they did not make the AI as hard as TMO has.

06-21-09, 05:34 AM	#8
Loud_Silence Planesman Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 193 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Ok, lets see: This is a Balao boat, or "Embarcación de flota clase Balao", in spanish. You can see two balls below. Those are the sonar components. Right on the deck you can see that T-shaped thing. It looks like the air search radar to me, since it only spins while on the surface and you can't turn it on and off like the surface search radar. And on the mast, there you have the periscopes and the surface search radar antenna (not visible here)

06-21-09, 04:18 PM	#12
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Yeah SH4 is not bad but it does not truly fully simulate a WWII era submarine much of the complex things are combined into more than one role like the sonars.I guess though that would be a bit too much for many and being published by a larger company dictates that they cant let it be so complex that it would turn away a more casual player. But SH does do a very good job of interesting people in submarines.

06-21-09, 05:14 PM	#13
Loud_Silence Planesman Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 193 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Ok... you were right... Effectively, the T-shaped thing also rotates while submerged, and with the "follow nearest contact" it always points to it It looks a lot like the navigation radar on modern small boats

06-21-09, 11:15 PM	#14
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Those where not around 60 years ago. And they still mount radars on a higher part of a vessel.I assume you might not have known that you can still use the SJ(surface search) radar just dive you boat to a point that that the dish is not awash and it will run. If you have the proper mods you can raise the SD(air) radar so it will exntend the antenna above the water at periscope deapth. Those are both things they really did do during WWII.