Pot calling Kettle black!

bookworm_020 · 03-24-2009, 01:12 AM

I wonder how many schools she applied for?

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegrap...001021,00.html

I would like to know how many applicants they got for the position, and if it is just a case of sour grapes!

It can go in the file with this one!

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-12332,00.html

Kapitan_Phillips · 03-24-2009, 06:31 AM

Dear lord what an idiot.

Tribesman · 03-24-2009, 07:07 AM

The student teacher has a point , it is discrimination .
As for teachers having to share the religious views of the school .... rubbish .
There is a woman I work with at the moment, she does maths and science , the school is church owned and church run , she is a muslim . Does her religion mean she cannot teach those subjects in a Christian school ? The only time religion even comes up at all in those classes is when they do the Angelus at noon .
She also wears the hijab , does choosing to wear that impact on her ability to teach ? If it deos then what of those of the nuns who still choose to have their heads covered , does their attire impact on their teaching?

As for that second story thats simple isn't it , if you tell people that when you demolish their facilities you are going to replace them then of course you are going to get protests when you don't replace them .

UnderseaLcpl · 03-24-2009, 07:13 AM

It's a private institution, they should be able to hire whoever they want.

Tribesman · 03-24-2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

It's a private institution, they should be able to hire whoever they want.

It is a business and it has employees , so they have to follow the laws that regulate business and employment .
It was their choice to start a business , so it is their responsibility to fellow the laws .

Digital_Trucker · 03-24-2009, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

It is a business and it has employees , so they have to follow the laws that regulate business and employment .
It was their choice to start a business , so it is their responsibility to fellow the laws .

And what are the laws, pray tell? Is a Christian School (or any school, for that matter) a business?

Tribesman · 03-24-2009, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Is a Christian School (or any school, for that matter) a business?

Of course it is a business , it has income , a board of directors and publishes accounts and tax returns , it recieves money from its customers for the service it provides (though as it is Australia it also gets much of its income directly from the government for providing the service that the government would otherwise have to provide)

Kapt Z · 03-24-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

And what are the laws, pray tell? Is a Christian School (or any school, for that matter) a business?

They may not be a 'business' in the true sense of the word, but they are definately a 'employer'. Does the janitorial and cafeteria staff have to be Christians as well?

It just seems very shortsighted for the school to take such a stance on a teacher who intended to teach basically secular courses. I mean is there a different way to teach math and French from a Christian vs Muslim perspective?

UnderseaLcpl · 03-24-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

It is a business and it has employees , so they have to follow the laws that regulate business and employment .
It was their choice to start a business , so it is their responsibility to follow the laws .

Technically, that is arguable, but that wasn't really my point. Don't you ever question laws? Assuming that a job candidate meets the requirements to work (and be taxed) in that country, why should the state dictate who can and cannot be hired? Is that more productive? Does it ease conflict along racial or religious or gender lines? Experience in the U.S. says no.

Let us suppose that you had a school based upon some particular belief structure (even if it is simply secular). Parents send their children to your school because they like the curriculum. Suddenly, some diametrically opposed applicant shows up. Perhaps they are qualified, or perhaps they are not.
What do you do? If you hire this person, how do you explain it to your students' parents?

AVGWarhawk · 03-24-2009, 08:19 AM

School, business or whatever one could call it, is she the most qualified applicant? If not, then the position goes to the person that is the most qualified. What, is the affirmative action now applying to Muslims?

SUBMAN1 · 03-24-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

It is a business and it has employees , so they have to follow the laws that regulate business and employment .
It was their choice to start a business , so it is their responsibility to fellow the laws .

When they hire models that are great looking over those that are ugly, is it not along the same lines? They are simply discriminating based on looks in this case instead of religion. Get used to it, or you will be buying your bar soap from ugly fat woman commercials.

-S

AVGWarhawk · 03-24-2009, 08:35 AM

Yes, it is like the man who sued Hooters because, well , the name of the restaurant is after all Hooters and they did not hire men. If I go to Hooters I want to see, well, hooters. Not some guy named Biff.

SteamWake · 03-24-2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Of course it is a business , it has income , a board of directors and publishes accounts and tax returns , it recieves money from its customers for the service it provides (though as it is Australia it also gets much of its income directly from the government for providing the service that the government would otherwise have to provide)

Yea... see ... thats what happens when you appoach the subject with the view point that the buisness are beholding to the goverment and not the other way around.

Kapt Z · 03-24-2009, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

Technically, that is arguable, but that wasn't really my point. Don't you ever question laws? Assuming that a job candidate meets the requirements to work (and be taxed) in that country, why should the state dictate who can and cannot be hired? Is that more productive? Does it ease conflict along racial or religious or gender lines? Experience in the U.S. says no.

Let us suppose that you had a school based upon some particular belief structure (even if it is simply secular). Parents send their children to your school because they like the curriculum. Suddenly, some diametrically opposed applicant shows up. Perhaps they are qualified, or perhaps they are not.
What do you do? If you hire this person, how do you explain it to your students' parents?

So equality of opportunity for ALL is actually a bad idea? How did that happen? Maybe I'm just a naive optimist, but I do like to think things are a little better between the races, genders, and religions than they were when my folks were kids. They thought so. I do think the 'state'(meaning us) helped with that.

As a principal of whatever school I would tell the parents the same thing-

"Mr/Ms was the best qualified candidate in our judgement to teach these courses."

Really, what else would you say?

AVGWarhawk · 03-24-2009, 08:51 AM

Let me back peddle if I may. Since the school is considered a business in this thread, hiring the women is potential to losing customers(students). This is a paying school. Parents send the kids there for a particular education and foundation of the Christian faith. The did not pay good hard cash to have a Muslim teach their children. So having the potentional to lose customers over this she was not hired.

03-24-2009, 01:12 AM	#1
bookworm_020 Navy Seal Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sinking ships off the Australian coast Posts: 5,978 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Pot calling Kettle black! I wonder how many schools she applied for? http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegrap...001021,00.html I would like to know how many applicants they got for the position, and if it is just a case of sour grapes! It can go in the file with this one! http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-12332,00.html __________________ "There is always one person in any organization who knows whats going on, That person must be fired"

03-24-2009, 06:31 AM	#2
Kapitan_Phillips Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Whence it came Posts: 3,916 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	Dear lord what an idiot. __________________ Oh god what is this I am not good with computer

03-24-2009, 07:13 AM	#4
UnderseaLcpl Silent Hunter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Storming the beaches! Posts: 4,266 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It's a private institution, they should be able to hire whoever they want. __________________ I stole this sig from Task Force

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03-24-2009, 07:07 AM	#3
Tribesman Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Galway , Eire Posts: 7,425 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	The student teacher has a point , it is discrimination . As for teachers having to share the religious views of the school .... rubbish . There is a woman I work with at the moment, she does maths and science , the school is church owned and church run , she is a muslim . Does her religion mean she cannot teach those subjects in a Christian school ? The only time religion even comes up at all in those classes is when they do the Angelus at noon . She also wears the hijab , does choosing to wear that impact on her ability to teach ? If it deos then what of those of the nuns who still choose to have their heads covered , does their attire impact on their teaching? As for that second story thats simple isn't it , if you tell people that when you demolish their facilities you are going to replace them then of course you are going to get protests when you don't replace them .

03-24-2009, 08:19 AM	#10
AVGWarhawk Buick Driver Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 23,397 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	School, business or whatever one could call it, is she the most qualified applicant? If not, then the position goes to the person that is the most qualified. What, is the affirmative action now applying to Muslims?

03-24-2009, 08:35 AM	#12
AVGWarhawk Buick Driver Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 23,397 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	Yes, it is like the man who sued Hooters because, well , the name of the restaurant is after all Hooters and they did not hire men. If I go to Hooters I want to see, well, hooters. Not some guy named Biff.

03-24-2009, 08:51 AM	#15
AVGWarhawk Buick Driver Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 23,397 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	Let me back peddle if I may. Since the school is considered a business in this thread, hiring the women is potential to losing customers(students). This is a paying school. Parents send the kids there for a particular education and foundation of the Christian faith. The did not pay good hard cash to have a Muslim teach their children. So having the potentional to lose customers over this she was not hired.