SUBSIM: The Web's #1 BBS for all submarine and naval simulations! 
09062008, 08:43 AM  #1 
Samurai Navy
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: GalwayIRELAND
Posts: 576
Downloads: 179
Uploads: 0

Trigonometry Formulas
Gruss Gott alle Kaleun,
I'm not very good at Maths, and even though I have made my 3 Wizz wheels I'm still not too proficient with it. I'd rather use my Scientific calculator.  So planning to take one more step toward more realism and Manual Targetting ( I'm at 74% ), I wonder if a good soul ( and a good Math brain too) could make a resume of all ( or as many as possible ) trigo formulas that this game involve. I think it would be usefull for the all community. All that could be classified in various sections, like : Target Speed, Range, AOB etc... But that's only a suggestion. Thanks in advance, if it ever takes shape. JMV 
09062008, 09:05 AM  #2 
Ocean Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Martin de los Andes, Neuquen, , Argentina.
Posts: 2,604
Downloads: 7
Uploads: 0

Look at my signature, there is a complete procedure to manually shoot... i made long time a go for a SH II Mod... but it is valid for any subsim, maths are the same.

09062008, 09:20 AM  #3 
Samurai Navy
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: GalwayIRELAND
Posts: 576
Downloads: 179
Uploads: 0

Thank you Redwine. Will have a look at that. JMV

09062008, 02:22 PM  #4 
Seaman
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: sweden
Posts: 40
Downloads: 18
Uploads: 0

HEllo Red..thats a fantastic manual..you dont ahappen to have it in pdf...
cheers R
__________________
....say are we in the atlantic???? 
09062008, 03:35 PM  #5  
Ocean Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Martin de los Andes, Neuquen, , Argentina.
Posts: 2,604
Downloads: 7
Uploads: 0

Quote:
P.D: sorry the bad english used on the tutorial... was the best i was able to do... 

09062008, 04:01 PM  #6 
Subsim Aviator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,207
Downloads: 121
Uploads: 0

OLC ubermod... takes all the guess work out of any mathematics and you will be workign with equipment available to Uboat commanders at the time.
It takes me about 10 15 seconds to set up each shot. its a snap.
__________________

09072008, 06:32 AM  #7 
Seaman
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: sweden
Posts: 40
Downloads: 18
Uploads: 0

no wories..m8.....we are all in thea sme...same...uboat:rotfl: :rotfl:
R
__________________
....say are we in the atlantic???? 
09072008, 10:43 AM  #8 
Silent Hunter

I suppose the most frequently used/needed trigformula would be the sinrule (not to be confused with "sine law": sin(angle)= opposite side/hypotenuse). It's needed for finding interceptlead or for calculating torpedolead.
Using an arbitrarily shaped triangle: side A/sin(angle opposite side A)=side B/sin(angle opposite side B)=side C/sin(angle opposite side C) For the above mentioned situations, where the triangle sides represent speeds it would become: speed_target/sin (intercept or lead_angle)= speed_uboot_or_torpedo/sin(AOB) after unfolding that a bit you get: sin (intercept or lead_angle)= sin(AOB)* speed_target / speed_uboot_or_torpedo And then ofcourse you need to do the inverted sine (or arcsin) operation on the result to get the actual 'lead' angle. There are some situations where the result is impossible: sin(intercept_leadangle)>1 this then is because; 1: the target is too fast, or 2: you/torpedo are/is too slow, or 3: the AOB is too big meaning you are in the wrong position to make it. The third part (Cside) of the sinrule is redundant for that equation. But from the same triangle using that 3rd Cangle (relative course or course difference) it could provide closure speed along a bearing line, and hence time to intercept as you can measure the range from the map (and do a time=distance/speed, taking good care of km/naut. mile conversion): closure_speed_along_bearingline= speed_uboot_or_torpedo * sin(AOB+lead_angle) / sin(AOB) That 3rd Cangle I mentioned is hidden in the sin(AOB+lead_angle) part because of a simplification. It does not imply that AOB+lead_angle=rel. course. Other than that, and your basic speed=distance/time (but that's not 'trig'), I see or know of no formula that needs to be done and can be used easily. You could use the cosinerule to get target_distance_moved (and thus speed if you know time) from 2 periscope ranges with a bearing change, but it is not a "quick 'n easy" keypressformula (imho). And you'd still only get relative distance_moved(speed) which you would need to correct for based on your own speed/course with another (sinrule based) formula. And so I never even tried it in practise. I preffer getting target course and speed with the graphical approach: plot positions as you move and measure in between. Much easier. Then again, maybe I haven't studied the Attackdisk manual enough. Might be some inspiration in there for me. Last edited by Pisces; 09092008 at 08:18 AM. 
09072008, 11:22 AM  #9  
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 511
Downloads: 3
Uploads: 0

Quote:


09072008, 11:49 AM  #10 
Silent Hunter

Thanks, good thing I didn't respond to it right away but went to sleep first. At 5 am.
Also, I figured that closure_speed formula out while writing the response. Never knew before it was so simple. 
09082008, 02:10 PM  #11 
Commodore
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 632
Downloads: 4
Uploads: 0

Redwine's tutorial and the other replies are spot on, so you probably have all you need. In case you want a little more information on how to use the whiz wheels (along with explaining the math), you can also download my user's guide by my signature.

09082008, 04:03 PM  #12 
Samurai Navy
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: GalwayIRELAND
Posts: 576
Downloads: 179
Uploads: 0

Sorry Pisces,
I must be a very dumm one, I don't get a damn thing on your before last thread... Thanks for trying however. JMV 
09092008, 08:03 AM  #13  
Silent Hunter

Quote:
You wanted formulas for use with a scientific calculator. I supposed you knew how to translate those formulas into keypresses for your own specific brand of calculator. As each brand has it's own way of organising math functions with certain buttons, and how to acces them. I could help with a Casio probably (I have a "fx82SX Fraction", pretty ancient by now) but some calculators are different in their use. Is that the problem? p.s. my thread? You must mean my 'post' or my message. You are the one that started this 'thread' with your original message. Sorry, I'm a semantic nitpicker aswel sometimes. And wanted to make sure you didn't mean someplace else. Last edited by Pisces; 09092008 at 08:26 AM. 

09092008, 08:32 AM  #14  
Ace of the Deep
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 1,186
Downloads: 41
Uploads: 8

Quote:
CutePDF Writer is a good free PDF print utility/driver. You just print your doc to it like any other printer. Last edited by aaronblood; 09092008 at 09:44 AM. 

09092008, 09:27 AM  #15 
Samurai Navy
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: GalwayIRELAND
Posts: 576
Downloads: 179
Uploads: 0

Trigonometry Formulas
Hello Pisces,
Thank you for helping. There is an old saying : "when the student is ready, the master appears " in french, if you can understand, " Quand l'eleve est pret, le Maitre apparait " Ok, obviously the time is not there yet for me.... You showed up but it doesn' seem I'm ready...But let's leave it there with phylosophy and mysticism. I have a Casio fx83ES. The problem is not with using the Calculator, and after all I've got the manuals, so this is another topic ( How to use your calc machine ) this is not the real issue. The real issue for me is to get all "navigation" ( only ) trig formulas applied for Sh3. With down to earth concrete examples. What I probably miss, if I have a formula under my eyes, is a down to earth example for such things as SPEED, DISTANCE, AOB calculation. Basically I can't choose what formula applies to what situation. For example you write : side A/sin(angle opposite side A)=side B/sin(angle opposite side B)=side C/sin(angle opposite side C). I mean, what gives ? To what particular situation does it apply? And what does it apply to ? Are we searching for an angle or for the length of one of the sides ?? So from what I understand : If you look for the length of the adjacent side of a triangle, knowing the value of the angle which has this side as adjacent, and knowing the length af the opposite side of that angle, you can know the length of the other side, with : Tan (A) = Length of opp. side  Length of adj. side If you look for the value of an angle, having the length of the opposite side of that angle, and the adjacent angle, Sin (A) = Length of opp. side applies  Length of hypotenuse Now, Cos (A) = Length of adj. side What do you get ? the length of one of  the other sides or the value of an Length of hypotenuse angle, and if yes, which one ? You can see now that I'm very thick on those trig things, but I suppose, from what I've seen, that I'm not the only one... And I'm not the only one that would like to get very basic applied trig solutions for SAH3, whithout daring ask or look too stupid. So I making the sacrifice.Or may be I sould take some private trig 50 Euro/hour courses... Thanks for any help, and to you Pisces, please be patient and methodical to me poor numb on that subject. Don't ever surrender trying. Thanks to you all . Thanks for your help, if you have the patience.  JMV 
Thread Tools  
Display Modes  

