General Apology To Affected Creators (ca-24 Pack)

[martes86]

Hi all,

On behalf of Richi (creator of the CA-24 pack), I'd like to apologize to everyone, specially to all the creators who had their mods included in the pack without previous request for permission, for the great inconvenience this action has represented on the community.

This error was not intentional, it's derived from a misunderstanding of the modding netiquette clauses contained within any mod readme document, due to the fact that Richi's primary language is not English, and his understanding of it is nowhere near the level that me (or anyone else in this forum) may have, which is also the reason it's me writing this post and not him.

I'd like that this problem gets solved peacefully, in a friendly manner, as a show of the 24th's good faith, honesty and sincerity. That's why I'll also be sending individual private apologies to all the respective mod creators/teams that had their mods included in the aforementioned pack without previous permission, once I get a list with all the names.

To end this apology, I'd also like to recommend all mod creators (independent or within dev groups) that they explicitally include the modding netiquette clauses written by Hitman in their readme files not just with a web link, but by copying and pasting its contents directly into the documents, thus avoiding future misunderstandings of such clauses.

We are very sorry, and hope the damage can be repaired and the wounds healed.


Cheers

[Mush Martin]

English can be a tough language to understand,

take the simple sentence.....

I didnt say he took it.

one sentence in the written language has six totally different meanings
in the spoken language.
Have a look at the inflection by saying the emphasis
on the word in bold out loud, you will see that emphasis or inflection carries
totally different meanings that are not expressed in the written word.

I didnt say he took it.
I didnt say he took it.
I didnt say he took it.
I didnt say he took it.
I didnt say he took it.
I didnt say he took it.

I am not familiar at all with this issue the modders involved nor
any of the readme's nor the specific language contained theirin.
I would however offer that in cases such as this it is highly possible
for a legitimate misunderstanding. I would advise diplomacy and
understanding when dealing with cross cultural misunderstandings.

Regards to all
M

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by martes86

Hi all,

On behalf of Richi (creator of the CA-24 pack), I'd like to apologize to everyone, specially to all the creators who had their mods included in the pack without previous request for permission, for the great inconvenience this action has represented on the community.

This error was not intentional, it's derived from a misunderstanding of the modding netiquette clauses contained within any mod readme document, due to the fact that Richi's primary language is not English, and his understanding of it is nowhere near the level that me (or anyone else in this forum) may have, which is also the reason it's me writing this post and not him.

I'd like that this problem gets solved peacefully, in a friendly manner, as a show of the 24th's good faith, honesty and sincerity. That's why I'll also be sending individual private apologies to all the respective mod creators/teams that had their mods included in the aforementioned pack without previous permission, once I get a list with all the names.

To end this apology, I'd also like to recommend all mod creators (independent or within dev groups) that they explicitally include the modding netiquette clauses written by Hitman in their readme files not just with a web link, but by copying and pasting its contents directly into the documents, thus avoiding future misunderstandings of such clauses.

We are very sorry, and hope the damage can be repaired and the wounds healed.


Cheers

@martes86

~Salute~

[Rockin Robbins]

Post deleted as requested by Lurker_hlb3 and persuasion by many (including, but not limited to Neal and Kapt Lehmann) whom I respect.

[FIREWALL]

@ Rockin Robbin

Did they use one of your mods or one you were part of ?

[martes86]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

We'll see. Denying that Operation Monsun was any part of the mod is not something that unfamiliarity with language or netiquette can explain. Neither is specifically leaving Operation Monsun's name out of an apparently voluminous credits list. And you have refused to deal specifically with these issues after your pronouncement that Op Monsun was no part of the mod and that settles everything.

I denied OM being part of it because I was told it wasn't. That was before I spoke to Richi on the phone, because that turned out to be a misunderstanding between Richi and me. I thought it was 0 presence, but then he explained to me that he got the U-Boats from there, but that it was his knowledge that those units were mere translations from SH3 to SH4, so they weren't actually OM's property (not made from scratch), and even then, he's told me that OM is in the credits, same as GWX.

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

You'll need the help of all the real modders to fix the incompatibility problems inherent in attempting to combine mods as complicated as GWX and Operation Monsun. The problems already exposed show an alarming lack of knowledge about both. If it were easy Lurker and the GWX crew would already have put it together.

Well, from what Richi told us, GWX didn't actually want his help, they just wanted him as tester, but he wanted to do constructive things. It's obvious to me that, if the current GWX team wants to make a pack for SH4, they're never gonna help Richi since they don't have the time nor the will to help the "competition" so to speak to do just the same thing on 2 bands. That's why he started to do the pack himself in the first place. And the pack may be full of bugs at first, but so was SH3 when first released. I like to think that the few guys we have trying to do something, have a talent to show, even if it's not the likings of some.

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

So for you, hoping isn't enough. What is needed now is honesty and fewer excuses. You seem to be unloading responsibility on the modders that were victimized by claiming that they had improper readmes. Bad move there. First you have to take specific responsibility for your own actions, without excuses. Then a lot of hard work will be necessary to determine if this mod can even be made to work reasonably well. This hard work will require cooperation with Lurker and GW, who are both working to capacity now.

I think I've showed quite a lot of honesty just by creating this thread, or even just "confessing" that the U-Boats are from OM instead of blindly denying it... I don't think you see apologies like this here every day, but it seems I'm always apologizing to you people. In fact, we supported GWX when the whole UBRS issue, and we even deleted the download links, and apologized for any damage caused. And like that, a few more.

But still, here we are, questioned again as a whole, questioned our honesty and truth of word... we had a similar issue with a previous SubClub administration... they claimed some of our mates cheated, but it wasn't true, and still we got burnt for it. Of course, the community as a whole felt we were not welcome, so we were forced to withdraw our official participation for a year... I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that here, but our people are a bit annoyed already to always be questioned as if we were the bad guys.

And no, I'm not unloading responsability, but how would it feel to you if they blamed you for not properly understanding an advanced text in arabic, for example, even if you had studied it just for a few days. Well, a similar situation is presented here... of course, if you are of those that think the whole world should speak English, well, I'll just give up.

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

That may prove impossible as unbreaking a glass.

Things are impossible only to those that want them to stay that way.
I like to think that we still have a chance, at least, until I see otherwise.

You're free to doubt my intentions or my words all you want, but in the end, reasonable people will see that I'm actually trying to solve this problem instead of, as you say, unloading responsabilities on others.

[Neal Stevens]

Give Martes a chance, he's got a solid reputation and he is expending a great deal of effort to resolve this fairly.

thanks
Neal

[martes86]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

And if I understand correctly, Martes is not responsible for any of this. He's only helping by being the "link" between the different parties, so it's really not fair to put the blame on him.
Let the people concerned deal with this via PM and all will be ok

Yep, I'm just the messenger... remember that up until a few days ago, I didn't know what did "OM" stand for. If Richi could, I'd let him do the talk. But that's the problem, he wouldn't be able to defend himself at the level of English I have, his words would be misunderstood, and he might even get banned... I've seen it before. So I'm doing the task of a fair defense.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Give Martes a chance, he's got a solid reputation and he is expending a great deal of effort to resolve this fairly.

thanks
Neal

Agreed

[Flick]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Stevens
Give Martes a chance, he's got a solid reputation and he is expending a great deal of effort to resolve this fairly.

thanks
Neal


Mix you have my support as you know. You were always upfront and honest about things.

Salute!

[martes86]

Thanks Flick, it's nice to see you around here.

Cheers

[privateer]

I will stand beside you Sir!
PM sent!

[Orion2012]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Give Martes a chance, he's got a solid reputation and he is expending a great deal of effort to resolve this fairly.

thanks
Neal

Couldn't agree more, I've had some of my mods (not SH4 but TESIV:Oblivion) used without permission and at least for me it wasn't so much that I cared that they were used, it was more about no one asking. At least the right moves are being taken to rectify this problem.

[lurker_hlb3]

As the “one and only” developer of Operations Monsun I am still patiently waiting for a formal request by way of PM to use OM files. When that happens I will see what can be worked out.



For the 24th Flotilla developer please review the permissions section of the Operation Monsun readme file that is in the first post of this thread


http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134922




Lurker.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

To all who are directly involved. I'll have to make my response(s) tomorrow night (Wednesday) U.S. Central time due to real life / work matters.

(Am referring to public and PM communications.)