The Lost USS Wahoo / SS-238

[Hartmann]

The truth could be in the log book of the boat.

Could be possible raise a war grave ?? in the kursk accident the boat was raised, but it not was a war lost. :hmm:

[odjig292]

I'm grateful that this thread got bumped back to the top of the list. I just finished reading Unrestricted Warfare - How A New Breed Of Officers Led The Submarine Service in World War II that is one of the best books on Morton and O'Kane that I have ever read. It an old book (2000) but O'Kane and numerous other veterans have contributed to it so it appears to be first class. I recommend it highly if you play SH4 because it talks about the agressiveness of the US skippers in wiping out the Japanese merchant fleet, as well as the boredom of waiting for targets.The book says that the Japanese were plotting the sinkings of the Wahoo's ship victims and it was obvious that the Wahoo was heading for the Strait. They set up a special watch for the sub. Plane #319 spotted the Wahoo as it was exiting the strait underwater and dropped the bomb as described by Dean Acheson, The Satyr, AVGwarhawk and especially Mr. Bassbone. The pictures were great. I wiah I could have been with Wahoo going back the USS Bowfin. I've been there but not in such illustrious company. What a treat. This thread has been most interesting and I thank all of the people who contributed. It rerally makes histroy and the game more interesting.

[TheSatyr]

After some recent reading I believe I now understand why Morton went through La Perouse Straight during the day instead of at night. The first time he went to the Inland sea he went through the Strait at night both ways and ran into very few contacts.

My guess is that Morton went through during the day simply due to the fact that from past experience he wasn't expecting to run into much in the way of ASW patrols,Plus he would have better visibility during the day than at night.

It was just a lousy break that an aircraft spotted the Wahoo while Morton was bringing her up for a periscope scan. It was even a lousier break that that aircraft actually hit her with a bomb.

From looking at what happened from various angles,it now looks like Wahoo's luck just ran out. Morton made the kind of decision you would expect from a man like him and it might have payed off if it wasn't for a VERY lucky Japanese pilot.

I still believe that Morton was worn out and never should have been sent out again,but now I believe he made his choice based on the best information he had at the time. It WAS a gutsy move,but gutsy moves are what Morton is famous for.

[mrbassbone]

The pictures and the video of the dives that I have <courtesy of Bryan McKinnon> show that both periscopes WERE up and that WAHOO was approaching periscope depth for a "look-see" when she was first spotted by the Japanese planes.

I do not believe that the first bombs actually hit her but exploded beneath the boat forcing it up closer to the surface. WAHOO lies in approx 210 feet of water so had she NOT come to the surface but remained deep, she might have made the transit safely.

Like some of the Japanese NAVAL personnel...I do not believe WAHOO was on the surface and forced under by shore artty. The strait is pretty wide and for a shore battery to see...let alone fire on her sounds like "someone wanting a piece of the glory".

IF you have seen the photo of WAHOO's return to Pearl Harbor after her 3rd patrol which shows Dick O'Kane stand aft of the RT Antenna you will be able to follow the next bit.

The bomb that FATALLY holed WAHOO hit where O'Kane's foot rests and angled down from Port to Starboard. It blew out most of the cigarette deck just aft of the RT Antenna and took out the bulkhead between the galley and control room and exiting out the starboard side. The conning tower appears to be undamaged according to the Russian divers but there is no way WAHOO could survive such a hit.

It is possible that crew forward and aft of those two major areas survived the explosion but there would be no way to escape from the boat. The waters were freezing cold and any possible attempt to surface the boat would be "next to impossible" <IMO> as the control room controls were destroyed in the blast and flooding of the compartment.

I am not sure that any attempt to escape via Momsen Lungs would have been tried to to the depth <they actually could have survived an ascent from 200 feet> as the fear of the depth plus the cold water would have been enough to kill them before they reached the surface.

I was supposed to be at Pearl for the ceremonies but was unable to get the time off from work. All the places talked about on the www.warfish.com blog I had been to in my 4 years stationed at Pearl Harbor from 1977-1981. I am a "Plank Owner" of USS BOWFIN's restoration crew as well as a Charter Life Member of the Pacific Fleet Submarine Memorial Association which runs her. I also had the pleasure to meet with Bryan McKinnon <Mush Morton's Grand Nephew> while I was in Tokyo in October of 2001.

All the best.....

Shell aka MrBassBone

[TheSatyr]

The question I have is that from what I've read,the Wahoo was still manuevering and trying to avoid the D/Cs at least for a while after the bomb hit.

From what your sources tell you did the Wahoo bottom out after being struck by the bomb or was she still mobile,at least for a short time?

(You seem to have a hell of alot better and more factual information than anything I've read about it over the years).

[AVGWarhawk]

Hello Mrbassbone! First time I dropped in on this thread since it was brought up again. I was wondering if you were here. I remember the last time this thread was up you were in it and brought all your paperwork with you concerning the Wahoo. Glad to see you again! All my best to you!

[mrbassbone]

Originally Posted by nattydread

Actually they say the sub doesnt crush in on you. It crushes only until the hull breaches and then you have an almost instaneous, explosive rush of water fill the whole sub. Thats why the subs are always found intact and still shaped roughly as they should.

But yeah, its sobering.

That is not true. The reason a sub or any vessel that is crushed in the depths is because of the air trapped in the compartments. IF the vessel is flooded near the surface, it will retain it's shape. HOWEVER...if a vessel is not flooded throughout...once it reaches "crush depth"...it will implode upon itself. Look at the Titanic for one. The bow section is fairly intact as it was flooded at the surface when it sank. The stern section is crushed in on itself as it was NOT through flooded and when the pressure became too great...it imploded.

Two ships to look at. USS YORKTOWN sunk at Midway appears to be intact on the bottom. I believe it lies deeper than Titanic and yet it is still recognizeable. USS GRUNION lost in Alaska off of Kiska island is crushed and lies in "only" 1000 feet of water. The pictures show some "normal" features and others show jumbles of crushed metal.

Another reason...some of the recently located subs <including WAHOO> lie in somewhat shallow water. USS LAGARTO located in the Gulf of Siam is mostly intact even though she sustained fatal damage to her forward torpedo room. She lies somewhere between 110 and 175 feet of water. WAHOO lies in 210 feet of water and retains her shape as she was not totally destroyed by the bombs and depth charges.

USS PERCH was located as well...but there have not been many pictures released of her condition. We know she was scuttled after being heavily shelled on the surface.

[mrbassbone]

Originally Posted by TheSatyr

The question I have is that from what I've read,the Wahoo was still manuevering and trying to avoid the D/Cs at least for a while after the bomb hit.

From what your sources tell you did the Wahoo bottom out after being struck by the bomb or was she still mobile,at least for a short time?

(You seem to have a hell of alot better and more factual information than anything I've read about it over the years).

I do not believe WAHOO's fatal bomb damage occurred early in the attack. She was being conned and under control for several hours. However...she WAS damaged as the narratives state that "more bubbles and oil" became noticeable after several attack runs.

She was located as she was heading EAST to exit Soya Strait but ended up turning WEST and lies in a westerly heading now. She was most likely "bottomed" because she became too heavy from water entering the boat. It is "believed" by some of her former officers that the big gush of oil was from a last ditch attempt to lighten the boat to bring her to the surface in the hopes of being able to abandon the boat and then scuttle her. It was not to be. From the damage sustained...some <but not all> died quickly. The rest probably died when the air ran out.

[mrbassbone]

Originally Posted by TheSatyr

After some recent reading I believe I now understand why Morton went through La Perouse Straight during the day instead of at night. The first time he went to the Inland sea he went through the Strait at night both ways and ran into very few contacts.

My guess is that Morton went through during the day simply due to the fact that from past experience he wasn't expecting to run into much in the way of ASW patrols,Plus he would have better visibility during the day than at night.

It was just a lousy break that an aircraft spotted the Wahoo while Morton was bringing her up for a periscope scan. It was even a lousier break that that aircraft actually hit her with a bomb.

From looking at what happened from various angles,it now looks like Wahoo's luck just ran out. Morton made the kind of decision you would expect from a man like him and it might have payed off if it wasn't for a VERY lucky Japanese pilot.

I still believe that Morton was worn out and never should have been sent out again,but now I believe he made his choice based on the best information he had at the time. It WAS a gutsy move,but gutsy moves are what Morton is famous for.

I am not sure I agree with you on why she tried to leave during the day. WAHOO was first "discovered" by a trail of lubricating oil which left a slick on the surface. The Seiran aircraft noticed the slick before they noticed the shadow of the boat as it was climbing up to periscope depth.

Morton would have expected asw craft to be in the area as he practically advertised his approach with the two attacks prior to his attempting to leave. They were like "bread crumbs" leading up to La Perouse Stait.

Why he did not wait for sunset and night to make either a surface dash or submerged exit will never be learned. I do NOT believe any report that would have said they were on the surface and then submerged. That was insanity. The waters were cold and clear and the skies were clear as well. HAD THEY STAYED DEEP...I beleive they would have made it out.

[sunvalleyslim]

thanks for the info mrbassbone, it sounds like a correct assumption................

[wahoo]

Everyone that was there for the ceremony received a CD copy of the
USS Wahoo video that the Russian divers took. It shows where the bomb
hit, the damage, and the final resting spot of this great sub.
I think there are still copies available, they are available at the USS Bowfin
museum, there are also Wahoo T-Shirts that are on sale, the donations
benefit the museum.

[-Pv-]

Aircraft started dropping bombs on an already damaged Wahoo starting 9:20 and dropped 40 bombs by the time they stopped at 16:25. The pilot(s) observe the sub is still moving slowly until it stopped producing a wake around 13:30. During this time it was also attacked by up to three ships with depth charges. What caused the initial slick is still debated whether it was shore battery or hitting mine. Condiitons were good for gunnery and they were also near the mine field when the boat changed direction possibly trying to make for Russian waters. By this account this boat was fighting for their lives for over four grueling hours. Could the shore battery have forced the Wahoo to blunder into a mine? Mines are very powerful and I boubt it would have survived one, but what do I know?
-Pv-

[mrbassbone]

Originally Posted by -Pv-

Aircraft started dropping bombs on an already damaged Wahoo starting 9:20 and dropped 40 bombs by the time they stopped at 16:25. The pilot(s) observe the sub is still moving slowly until it stopped producing a wake around 13:30. During this time it was also attacked by up to three ships with depth charges. What caused the initial slick is still debated whether it was shore battery or hitting mine. Condiitons were good for gunnery and they were also near the mine field when the boat changed direction possibly trying to make for Russian waters. By this account this boat was fighting for their lives for over four grueling hours. Could the shore battery have forced the Wahoo to blunder into a mine? Mines are very powerful and I boubt it would have survived one, but what do I know?
-Pv-

Your first sentence is not entirely correct. Radm O'Kane "surmised" in his book WAHOO that she was damaged from a circular run somewhat akin to the loss of his USS TANG...but there is no actual proof that she was damaged when she was sighted. Subs LEAK....and the lubricating oil slick that proved to be her undoing could have been from one such leak or from her bilges. The amount to cause the slick would have been no more than the contents of a standard 12 ounce glass.

Japanese Naval Veterans who were there dispute the "claims" of a hit from one of the shore batteries let alone even being fired upon by them. They felt it "smacked" of "hey...lets take some credit as well" instead of being a reality.

As for striking a mine...I doubt that...based on reports from survivors from other subs who were struck by mines on the surface and sunk. They were fortunate to be on the surface and survive. No one ever survived from a mine explosion while submerged. Even O'Kane's speculation of WAHOO "surviving a torpedo explosion hitting the forward room while submerged brought a lot of raised eyebrows to those who read it. His own ship TANG sank by the stern immediately as her aft engine room, manouvering room and aft torpedo room flooded from the explosion. The only thing that prevented the sub from TOTALLY SUBMERGING at that time was the depth. Her stern was on the bottom in 180 feet of water leaving her bow "bobbing like a buoy". If the waters had been deeper, she would have completely been gone from the get-go. She only submerged when MM2 Clayton O. Decker manually flooded the forward banks allowing her to submerge to the bottom on an even keel.

When first sighted WAHOO was heading EAST. After some of the initial attacks, she turned WEST in a probable attempt to clear the straits for deeper waters and perhaps to try for Vladivostok. Who knows. She rests in a westerly heading to this day.

The fatal Bomb blast most likely came late in the battle. Based on where it hit and the angle it took...it took out the bulkhead between the crews mess and the control room. As I speculated in earlier posts....those men died very quickly. Others in the conning tower, forward rooms and perhaps stern rooms most likely died from loss of oxygen. We will never know and truly...I do not want to find out. She is a grave and let her crew rest peacefully.

Shell
USN RET

[mrbassbone]

THE FOLLOWING IS SOMETHING I PUT TOGETHER FOR THE ANNIVERSARY OF THE LOSS OF USS TANG ON 25 OCTOBER 1944. Some of it is taken from CLEAR THE BRIDGE by O'Kane...some from my talks with Jesse DaSilva and Clayton O. Decker:

Like a Lioness stalking her prey, she approached silently gliding along the surface of the water. Heading directly at her target at a speed which prevented ripples from forming at her bow and stern. 1,500 yards...1,400 and the range slowly decreased to less than 1,000 yards when the command "Stand by below!" was given. "Ready below" came the cry. "Fire!" was shouted from the bridge and the torpedo was sent out straight as an arrow to its target now 900 yards away. "Stand by below!" was again called bring the prompt "Ready below!"....

The time is 0240 on the morning of 25 October 1944 and the location is somewhere off the coast of China between Oksu and Turnabout islands. The ship is USS TANG SS-306 and on her bridge CDR Richard H. O'Kane has given the order to fire 23 times previously on this 5th patrol in the Formosa Straits with results that were spectacular to say the least. What happens next is again spectacular but not in the way he expected....

"FIRE!".....the torpedo just yards out from the sub suddenly breaks to the surface and and turns sharply to the left porpoising off the bow of the sub.

"ALL AHEAD EMERGENCY!....RIGHT FULL RUDDER!" is shouted in the hopes to create a fishtail maneuver to move the sub out of the torpedo's turning circle. In 10 seconds from it firing it reached it's maximum distance from the sub of 20 yards and started back towards TANG. There was only seconds to get out of the way.

"LEFT FULL RUDDER!' was ordered in order to move the stern out of the way. Dark black smoke belched from the exhausts of the 4 overloaded diesels and the screws churned up the water as the crew fought to crawl out of the path of the lethal fish. The problem was moving a ship the length of a football field at harbor speed away from a "suddenly careening speedboat".

A devastating detonation obliterated any hopes of that as the 24th and final fish USS TANG would ever fire came back to hit her near the bulkhead between the after torpedo room and the manouvering room. TANG immediately started to sink by the stern as her after 3 compartments and ballast tanks 6 & 7 flooded.

"CLOSE THE HATCH!" was shouted but there was no time to do so as the men topside were washed off the bridge as it sank beneath the waves leaving only the bow bobbing on the surface like a buoy.

The lookouts strapped in to their shears went down with no chance to escape as the others floated out into the swift waters.

Below decks men no one would survive from the last three compartments as the died in the explosion or were swiftly drowned. Men were able to make their way into the crews mess from the forward engine room and were able to close the hatches between both the engine room and the control room keeping them from drowning but not sure IF they would be able to make it out of the boat.

In the flooded conning tower which was approximately 90 feet below the surface, LT Larry Savadkin was able to find breathing room and was able to get out of the flooded compartment and took refuge under the bridge superstructure. There he found another sailer whom he tried to help to the surface. LT Savadkin made it up but RM-1 Ed Bergman did not.

In the control room, MM-2 Clayton O. Decker manually was able to open the ballast tanks still filled with air and was able to bring the bow down to the bottom and TANG settled on an even keel 180 feet below the surface.


Back in the crews mess, the men noticed that the water level was above the eye port in the hatch but not to the level of the bulkhead flappers. Taking a chance that the water was not deep enough to drown them, they first opened up the storage room hatch in the mess room floor and then opened the hatch. When the waters smoothed out, they were able to make their way to the forward torpedo room. Once there they joined perhaps 40 men who might be able to escape from the sub using momsen lungs.

On the surface, CDR O'Kane, and 3 others struggled to maintain themselves. O'Kane was by himself as was LT. Savadkin. Chief Boatswain Liebold and RM-1 Caverly kept each other awake and afloat.

Below in the forward torpedo room, appempts were made to escape using the lungs. The first attempt failed with one officer drowning and the rest returning to the boat. A second attempt was made and in this one Clay Decker made his way to the ladder. His best friend who would not try as he could not swim noticed a wire on the exhaust valve of Decker's Lung. He removed the wire and Clay ultimately became the first man to escape from a US sub using that equipment. The others in his party did not as their exhaust valves most likely still had that wire attached and as they ascended towards the surface air embulisms would have developed.

In the end....five men made the escape from the sub to join O'Kane and the others in captivity for the duration of the war. O'Kane was awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions and the other surviving men each were awarded Silver Stars and other awards.

We honor the memory of USS TANG and her crew lost "tonight" 63 years ago.

[-Pv-]

I was referencing the Japanese narrative of the battle in my comments. If you look at the air photos taken of the Wahoo and ships attacking it, you'll realise this wasn't a slick caused by a cup of oil or normal loss. Any sub trailing a slip as large as this could not expect to come home when in the immediate area of hostile and attacking forces. If all our subs belched oil like this as a normal leak, none of them would have come home.
http://www.emackinnon.com/wahoo-fina...e-photos-1.jpg
http://www.emackinnon.com/wahoo-fina...e-photos-2.jpg
Narrative with above pics:
http://www.emackinnon.com/Wahoo-Fina...le-Report.html

What caused this unusual leak? We'll probably never know.
What weapon actually sunk the Yahoo? Shore battery, air bomb, depth charge, mine?
I personally would rule out the mine simply from reasonableness. Other than that, speculation. All we know for sure is air bombs and depth charges were both used on the boat.
I would further speculate rather than surrender to the Japanese, there was a period during which the boat was still manouverable to some extent and the crew attempted other options, but the circumstances of their tell-tail trail and over-whelming enemy forces brought to bear ended all options.
-Pv-