A History Mystery for Sub sim Sleuths.

[Mush Martin]

Hi Deamon, I had been going back through my references to work up
the stuff on allied WWI boats that I promised you when I came upon
an intriguing mystery and I wonder if you or any could shed some light
on it as we have turned up repeated dead ends in trying to divine what
we are looking at.

This first pic is from Jane's Submarines War Beneath the Waves 1776 to the present day by Robert Hutchinson,

in the above volume the picture is identified to be the U cargo cruiser Deutchland (later U 155)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...aftsection.jpg

in the picture aft and port of the conning tower we see a structure which
recedes into a form fitting slot in the deck, by implication the structure
is part of the subs apparatus.

A look at the janes cross section of the U151 class indicates that
this structure is roughly on the border of the fuel storage tanks and the diesel engine room. as there is stuff on the starboard side of the deck
I cannot definitively say if there is or isnt a corresponding starboard structure.

So far of the U151 boats pictures that I have seen none show evidence of this apparatus. I bandied this about with BBW and he got a pic from uboat net of Deutchland in new york in aug 1916 showing a similar but slightly different structure forward of the conn over the Radio room.

we have tried to surmise the possibilities.
but all somehow where thin.
fueling nozzle (not likely, to tall for truck driver)
vapour vent (not likely why evaporate away the cargo)
air vent. (not likely way to cumbersome.)
Flagpole(no known to be aft on stern.)
Radio mast. (maybe the one fwd of the conn that bbw found)
Schnorkel ( picture shows guy wires somewhat not likely)

Does any one Have knowledge of this device and its function or name.

Quite obviuosly it bears a resemblance to a schnorkel

is it possible that the id of the photo is wrong and that it isnt deutchland
but the Ucruiser Bremen which according to Janes at least, foundered in
heavy seas off of Norway" is it possible that UBremen was a testbed
for a very secret WW1 device to enable the ucruisers to become the ultimate blockade runner of the times. Is it possible that it is an unreported early schnorkel that Failed sinking the boat and causing the end of the program. is it possible that Donitz knew of it and found it as an inspriation to encourage work on the dutch system in ww2, is It possible that it was such a secret as the Reichsmarine would lie about the circumstances surrounding the deaths of thirty of her crew.

Is it possible mush martin is letting his imagination get away with him,
Maybe either way I would love to find out.

MM:hmm:

[edit] needless to say the apparatus does not appear in the cutaway of U151type.

[Wings_of_Wrath]

Sorry to dissapoint you, but it's not that much of a mystery.
If you look closely, you will notice that the other subs present in the picture are of the French "Brumaire" class. Since Deutschland was surrendered to Britain (and subsequently scrapped), this sub can only be either the U151 "Oldenburg" (ultimately sunk of Cherbourg as a target vessel on 7 June 1921) or the U157 "Bayern" (scrapped at Brest, also in 1921)
As for the "mystery structure", that is one of the two retractible TSF masts, and since those existed only on the starboard side, the image you posted is in fact mirrored.
(Also, I have a hunch this is U157, because U151 sported camouflage paint during the war, as well as two aditional 88mm guns on staggered platforms in front of the conning tower on the port side and behind it on the starboard, platforms that should still be visible, but are missing)

[Mush Martin]

Originally Posted by Wings_of_Wrath

Sorry to dissapoint you, but it's not that much of a mystery.
If you look closely, you will notice that the other subs present in the picture are of the French "Brumaire" class. Since Deutschland was surrendered to Britain (and subsequently scrapped), this sub can only be either the U151 "Oldenburg" (ultimately sunk of Cherbourg as a target vessel on 7 June 1921) or the U157 "Bayern" (scrapped at Brest, also in 1921)
As for the "mystery structure", that is one of the two retractible TSF masts, and since those existed only on the starboard side, the image you posted is in fact mirrored.
(Also, I have a hunch this is U157, because U151 sported camouflage paint during the war, as well as two aditional 88mm guns on staggered platforms in front of the conning tower on the port side and behind it on the starboard, platforms that should still be visible, but are missing)

Thanks for the prompt and obviously informative answer.
It was baffling to see it the first time without the depth of foundation
on the unit.
I hadnt had time to Identify the other boats but the unique silouhette
caught my eye and you just saved me a lot of time thanks.
MM

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

is it possible that the id of the photo is wrong and that it isnt deutchland
but the Ucruiser Bremen which according to Janes at least, foundered in
heavy seas off of Norway" is it possible that UBremen was a testbed
for a very secret WW1 device to enable the ucruisers to become the ultimate blockade runner of the times.

U-Bremen got lost on it's first voyage as a merchant sub. Most propably ren on a mine.

Is it possible mush martin is letting his imagination get away with him,

Sorry mate i had to laugh out loud :rotfl:

The "snorkel" you are talking here about is indeed the aft radiomast!

This was the more advanced implementation where the mast was layed down into a recess. Before that the masts were just layed down on the deck. Much like this:

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/he...%20liegend.jpg
http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/he...hend%20III.jpg

But this caused more drag and affected the underwater stability.

Radio masts were as well used as signal masts or on the cruisers as a lookout position.

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/he...0Stb%20Aft.jpg

And no there is not a second set of radio masts on the other side of the boat. As Wings_of_Wrath correctly observed the image seem to be mirrored. I'm woundering how that comes ?

But man this reminds me on how i have started my research having no clue what i'm looking at, coming to similar conclusions as you did

But now the situation is vastly improved

Deamon

[Mush Martin]

Originally Posted by Deamon

U-Bremen got lost on it's first voyage as a merchant sub. Most propably ren on a mine.

Sorry mate i had to laugh out loud :rotfl:

The "snorkel" you are talking here about is indeed the aft radiomast!

This was the more advanced implementation where the mast was layed down into a recess. Before that the masts were just layed down on the deck. Much like this:

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/he...%20liegend.jpg
http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/he...hend%20III.jpg

But this caused more drag and affected the underwater stability.

Radio masts were as well used as signal masts or on the cruisers as a lookout position.

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/he...0Stb%20Aft.jpg

And no there is not a second set of radio masts on the other side of the boat. As Wings_of_Wrath correctly observed the image seem to be mirrored. I'm woundering how that comes ?

But man this reminds me on how i have started my research having no clue what i'm looking at, coming to similar conclusions as you did

But now the situation is vastly improved

Deamon

Well I was doing my best not to arrive at a conclusion. but I know what you mean.
and thanks again.
MM

[Wings_of_Wrath]

Originally Posted by Deamon

[the image seem to be mirrored. I'm woundering how that comes ?

Negatives from the era didn't have numbers on the edges to tell you which is the "right" way to hold it, so it was commonplace to obtain mirrored prints from a photographic technician who was unfamiliar with what the original scene looked like.

Hell, even I get confused sometimes with my negatives (I'm an old fashioned individual- I prefer B&W film to digital photography) and if there weren't any numbers on them I'd be in real trouble, eventhough I'm the guy that took the pictures in the first place!

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by Wings_of_Wrath

Negatives from the era didn't have numbers on the edges to tell you which is the "right" way to hold it, so it was commonplace to obtain mirrored prints from a photographic technician who was unfamiliar with what the original scene looked like.

Hell, even I get confused sometimes with my negatives (I'm an old fashioned individual- I prefer B&W film to digital photography) and if there weren't any numbers on them I'd be in real trouble, eventhough I'm the guy that took the pictures in the first place!

So that's the deal!

[Mush Martin]

I ended up making a corrected copy for my own files.



Thanks again for the help.
MM

[Mush Martin]

Have a Look at these.

http://s43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...0Restorations/

is there any that you have that would like me to have a go at.
incedently that is the best copy of that picture of
Walker on the bridge available online try searching it
in google images. And Help yourself to a copy if
you want.

MM