Introduction.

[Wings_of_Wrath]

Hello there!
I've been shadowing this forum for some time now (and you didn't even notice my scope wake. See, I'm that good! ), and I finally made a decision to formally introduce myself and offer whatever help I can to this amazing project.
I am an architecture student from Romania with an interest of both WWI and submersible craft in general. A little while back I was getting really frustrated with my chosen profession, and decided not tu pursue this line of work once I graduated.
By chance, two of my friends (both finished the same school I'm currently attending) are level artists for UbiSoft and were in the SH III dev team, and they suggested I could try to get into game development instead.
Since then, I've been constantly trying to enhance my feeble 3d modeling skills (used for keeping those nasty little school projects at bay) but lacked any real subject to work on. Then, I discovered your forum, via a link from the DreadnoughtProject, and realised that not only is your project unique and something I personally would like to see done, but it really could do with some more workforce.
Other than my slowly growing 3d kills, I have a fairly solid knowledge of submarines, both from literature and from personal experience fiddling with sub sims (SHII and III mainly, although the latter does fall more into the "cinematic experience" category than a simulator) or visiting the rather delapidated Kilo Class sub that represents my country's only submarine asset, despite rusting at the same berth for more than 15 years...
Anyway.. to cut a long story short, here's my first small contribution to the project, in the shape of several photograps from a French book on submarines published in 1919:



The page on the left shows auxiliary cruiser "Golo II", a subchaser (probably a converted trawler) and a coastal patrol craft.
On the right, an unidentiffied german submarine. (deffinitely a "Mittel U" of the U93-U98 batch built at Germaniawerft, probably one of those refitted in 1917, since it only has one 105mm gun despite the second mounting behind the conning tower. )



On the left, german submarine U-79 (of the UE-I class of ocean-going minelayers built at Vulcan Werke, Hamburg), showing the torpedo tube and the curiously positioned anti-net device and on the right a deck view of the UB-124 (Class UB-III, built at A.G. Wesser, Bremen, in a lot of 15) .




On the left page, the deck of the german minelayer UC-58 (please note the external torpedo storage- either that or the craft was equipped with Drzewiecki launcers like some french units, and I know for sure this boat was surrendered to France after the war). On the right, the net cutter on an ocean-going submarine. (Looks to me like one of the U51-56 class from the Germaniawerft , they had a rather distinctive type of wirecutter)

Other than this, I have other sub pictures from another 1920's book, "L'Histoire Illustre de la Marine Francaise" (Illustrated History of the French Navy), but unfortunately the book is at my parents' house right now so I can't scan it. As far as the pictures go, the tome is great, but most of the text is biased, such as when it describes the sinking of HMS Agincourt, HMS Hogue and HMS Cressy, by claming they valiantly fought a whole squadron of enemy U-boats (!), sinking 4 (!!) of the attackers before succumbing to Weddigen and his aging U9...

[Deamon]

Bump. I'm stunned

Welcome Wings_of_Wrath

Originally Posted by Wings_of_Wrath

Hello there!
I've been shadowing this forum for some time now (and you didn't even notice my scope wake. See, I'm that good! ),

You error!

I have expected the arrival of someone soon! Someone who is an artist but rather inexperianced.

You was been detected before you even left the port

Your missionorder to patrol my coast came from my secret service and not your flotilla commander. That was one bold of a secret service operation

and offer whatever help I can to this amazing project.

Are you serious ?

I am an architecture student from Romania with an interest of both WWI and submersible craft in general. A little while back I was getting really frustrated with my chosen profession, and decided not tu pursue this line of work once I graduated.

That sounds kinda familiar to me.

By chance, two of my friends (both finished the same school I'm currently attending) are level artists for UbiSoft and were in the SH III dev team,

Oh how small the world is!

and they suggested I could try to get into game development instead.

That's what i would suggest you too!

Hey what about subsim developement ? A WWI subsim maybe ?

Since then, I've been constantly trying to enhance my feeble 3d modeling skills (used for keeping those nasty little school projects at bay) but lacked any real subject to work on.

If you lack some real subject, i got PLANTY!!!

Then, I discovered your forum, via a link from the DreadnoughtProject, and realised that not only is your project unique and something I personally would like to see done,

Hey how did you came to the dreadnought site ?

What attracts you so much about this project ?

but it really could do with some more workforce.

Other than my slowly growing 3d kills, I have a fairly solid knowledge of submarines, both from literature

Have you some special literature ? Have you more of such old books ?

(SHII and III mainly, although the latter does fall more into the "cinematic experience" category than a simulator)

Too true. I haven't seen a sadisfying u-boat sim so far. At all i haven't seen a historicaly subsim so far that realy would deserve to be called a sim. The simulation of the sub itself is always kinda neglected. You can't even control the planes. I'm sick of this.

to cut a long story short, here's my first small contribution to the project, in the shape of several photograps from a French book on submarines published in 1919:

Wow

This are some great shots! Haven't seen them before.

a subchaser (probably a converted trawler) and a coastal patrol craft.

The hull doesn't seem like of a trawler. There was a dedicated subchaser design. The american come to my mind that operated in numbers around england.

On the right, an unidentiffied german submarine. (deffinitely a "Mittel U" of the U93-U98 batch built at Germaniawerft, probably one of those refitted in 1917, since it only has one 105mm gun despite the second mounting behind the conning tower. )

Yup

Hell, how comes that you know this boats so well ? How long are you dealing with them ?

Gun mounting without gun ?

It's hard to recognize, the resolution is low a little.

On the left page, the deck of the german minelayer UC-58 (please note the external torpedo storage- either that or the craft was equipped with Drzewiecki launcers like some french units, and I know for sure this boat was surrendered to France after the war).

This are external storages. I saw this on other subs too. All the earlier subs hab by nature only few torpedos. Later external storages were added and more torpedos were cramped in to the torpedo compartments. What puzzles me however is that on some boats the torpedos were mounted to the hull exposing it to the sea. This is must be very bad for the torpedos. External tubes were troublesome too, since it wasn't possible to maintain the torps in them. Or water could maybe leak into them too and possible corrode the torpedo.

On the right, the net cutter on an ocean-going submarine. (Looks to me like one of the U51-56 class from the Germaniawerft , they had a rather distinctive type of wirecutter)

Nope, the ditails doesn't match. This is definately one of the U 119 - 121 (UE II) batch.

Other than this, I have other sub pictures from another 1920's book, "L'Histoire Illustre de la Marine Francaise"

I woud be definately interested in them. Thanks in advance.

but most of the text is biased, such as when it describes the sinking of HMS Agincourt, HMS Hogue and HMS Cressy, by claming they valiantly fought a whole squadron of enemy U-boats (!), sinking 4 (!!) of the attackers before succumbing to Weddigen and his aging U9...

But it's fun to read it ain't it ?

Sunk 4 submerged german submarines with the gun, the other 5 escaped though :rotfl:

Cheers,
Deamon

[Wings_of_Wrath]

Thak you for the warm welcome!

Originally Posted by Deamon

You was been detected before you even left the port

Your missionorder to patrol my coast came from my secret service and not your flotilla commander. That was one bold of a secret service operation

Oh snap. I knew there was something strange about those orders...

Are you serious ?

Dead serious.

That sounds kinda familiar to me.

Let me guess... you are an architect as well?

Hey what about subsim developement ? A WWI subsim maybe ?

What a coincidence! Exactly what I was thinking of doing!

Hey how did you came to the dreadnought site ?

What attracts you so much about this project ?

The BOATS. They were 29 different types of u-boats during WW1, as opposed to only 6 in WW2. Despite their mechanical "roughness", they were ellegant machines, much more so than the more utilitarian boats of WW2. (just look at the graceful lines of a late-war boat like U-135 or U-162. By comparison, it makes a Typ VII look blunt and boring!)
Other than that, it's the "mystery" factor in the ecuation. There are no U-boat survivors left, and nobody knows how it felt like to operate one of those things. Just diving to PD was an adventure in itself, not to mention combat. Worse still, save for a cut up U1, no subs remain, so reconstruction work can only be based on photographic evidence, technical documentation and journals. It's like CSI, but with submarines.
So I guess in the end I like a good detective story...

On the Dreadnought site I was searching for some plans for the Magdeburg class Light cruisers, as I was researching Breslau's actions against Romanian held instalations on "Serpent Island" (Insula Serpilor) in the Black Sea on the 23 June 1917.
Unfortunately, I could only find the Emden II class, but it's close enough for what I had in mind.

Have you some special literature ? Have you more of such old books ?

Well, yes, and no.
Yes in the sense that I do have some specialist literature concerning submarines, and no in the sense that it concerns french interwar boats rather than WW1 german submarines.
Other than that, my info comes mostly from the internet, and I spent quite some time trying to match the various pictures I had (I have some french illustrated magazines from the period, but they mostly show "artistic" photograps and propaganda shots of beached or captured u-boats) with the technical characteristics of each type of ship.
As for "solid" info, I'm still struggling to get my hands on a copy of "Raiders of the Deep" or any other book about the subject, especially if they're german, because that would mean information unaltered by translation.
The closest I have come to experiencing WW1 U-boot warfare was watching "Morgenrot", a movie I found even more immersing than "Das Boot", because it uses real ships rather than props, in the same way Sergei Eisenstein's Potemkin used the actual ship.

Too true. I haven't seen a sadisfying u-boat sim so far. At all i haven't seen a historicaly subsim so far that realy would deserve to be called a sim. The simulation of the sub itself is always kinda neglected. You can't even control the planes. I'm sick of this.

Well, they're good if you want to sink a few ships on your cofee break, but you can't expect something too complicated from a commercial developper. After all, the main target is the "casual gamer", not the hardcore enthusiast, and let's not forget that the vast majority of the Dev team had no special interest in submarines to begin with, so for them it was just a job.

The hull doesn't seem like of a trawler. There was a dedicated subchaser design. The american come to my mind that operated in numbers around england.

You are right on the money!
In the text it says it was a wooden subchaser design build in the US. She had a lenght of 33m, width of 4m, draught of 2m and a maximum displacement of 60tons (metric)
She ran on three "Standard" gasoline engines (4 stroke, six cylinders, 220HP at 480RPM) with a propeller for each, and her armament consisted of either two 50mm cannons, or, later, a single 75mm gun and two machineguns.
Total number in french service was 139.

Hell, how comes that you know this boats so well ? How long are you dealing with them ?

Gun mounting without gun ?

It's hard to recognize, the resolution is low a little.

Well, not that long. A few months, at best.

In fact there isn't a gun mounting either, just a circular steel plate where the gun used to be, visible as a white spot on the photograph.

Nope, the ditails doesn't match. This is definately one of the U 119 - 121 (UE II) batch.

Yeah, you're right.
When I tried to figure out what kind of boat that was, I looked at this picture of U-117, and since it had a different type of netcutter (it's the same as U162) I excluded the UEII class altogether:


Now, however, I came back to my documentation, managed to track down a picture of U-120, and it has exactly the same wirecutter as the one in the french book:

O]
I woud be definately interested in them. Thanks in advance.

My pleasure entirely.

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by Wings_of_Wrath

Dead serious.

So what are we waiting for ?

I see you hang around all day and night on this forum, shouldn't you be in the university instead ?

Since how long are you modeling ?

Since how long do you have the wish to develope games ?

So when i understand you right you want to be part of this project ?

I hope you know what you are getting into. I hope you are aware that such a project require some serious dedication and commitment over long periods of time. Most would quit after a few months. It must be much more than a hobby to you and require that you give a quite high priority to it, in you life over other things. Although it makes alot of fun too such a project is a serious thing.

But sounds kinda that you know what you want. Sounds like you are one of the guys i have looked for

You don't know how lonlay i am as an WWI u-boat nut. I don't have noone in the team who matches my level of knowledge. This is the first time i don't feel alone.

Let me guess... you are an architect as well?

Errr....

- click me -

...no!

I just wanted to make games all my life and never seriously intended to make my living with one of the jobs i made in the past.

What a coincidence! Exactly what I was thinking of doing!

So what are we waiting for then ?

The BOATS. They were 29 different types of u-boats during WW1, as opposed to only 6 in WW2. Despite their mechanical "roughness", they were ellegant machines, much more so than the more utilitarian boats of WW2. (just look at the graceful lines of a late-war boat like U-135 or U-162. By comparison, it makes a Typ VII look blunt and boring!)

This is my speech. You appeal to me more and more. Yes i love this gracefull lines too and all the different designs; all this evolution. A WWI sim has a great gameplay potential. Each fundamentaly different design operates in a much different way. There is so much variability in gameplay and replayability at all, when this different designs get well researched and implemented. You have everythng there from very tiny dead slow boats gradualy till large heavily armed ocean going cruisers. You have everything there from poor armament till big bang.

Shells of Fury didn't made a good job at all in capturing the design differences.

But in WWII you had only 3 boats almost all the time. This were workhorses but the boats in WWI were a gracefull art. I love this distinct tower configuration with this long low wavebreaker infront of the tower and the helm station on the bridge and the entrenched cover behind it, with the peris sticking out infront of it and the fin like aft of the tower, with all of its goodies, leads and doors. And so much variability in them. But WWII boats looks pretty much all the same, from inside and outside.

Other than that, it's the "mystery" factor in the ecuation. There are no U-boat survivors left, and nobody knows how it felt like to operate one of those things.

Well, there are at least accounts and diaries are still there too. Also some technical documents. I think i can simulate some of this boats half-decent.

Just diving to PD was an adventure in itself,

Depends on the boat and situation of course. I remember one account where a crew of an old design boat got a new boat. I think U63 or something. The account pointed out how much this boat was improved over their old one and remarked during a test dive how seemless the boat obayed to their orders and how much the crew enjoyed it.

So I guess in the end I like a good detective story...

Yes the detective work is very exciting. My knowledge is vastly improved since then. I study every screw, every bolt, every slot and every scratch. Since years now.

On the Dreadnought site I was searching for some plans for the Magdeburg class Light cruisers, as I was researching Breslau's actions against Romanian held instalations on "Serpent Island" (Insula Serpilor) in the Black Sea on the 23 June 1917.
Unfortunately, I could only find the Emden II class, but it's close enough for what I had in mind.

How did you found the dreadnought site ?

Other than that, my info comes mostly from the internet, and I spent quite some time trying to match the various pictures I had (I have some french illustrated magazines from the period, but they mostly show "artistic" photograps and propaganda shots of beached or captured u-boats) with the technical characteristics of each type of ship.

You will have to show me later. There could be some new data.

As for "solid" info, I'm still struggling to get my hands on a copy of "Raiders of the Deep" or any other book about the subject, especially if they're german, because that would mean information unaltered by translation.

Ehh, you look for german books or what ?

Raiders of the Deep is very common on eBay.

The closest I have come to experiencing WW1 U-boot warfare was watching "Morgenrot", a movie I found even more immersing than "Das Boot", because it uses real ships rather than props, in the same way Sergei Eisenstein's Potemkin used the actual ship.

You saw Morgenrot !? Great!
Where have you found it ?

Yes i would fully agree, it's even better than Das Boot.

Well, they're good if you want to sink a few ships on your cofee break, but you can't expect something too complicated from a commercial developper. After all, the main target is the "casual gamer", not the hardcore enthusiast, and let's not forget that the vast majority of the Dev team had no special interest in submarines to begin with, so for them it was just a job.

Right. That's why i feel relatively save. I'm sitting in a heavy to reach nichie.

Total number in french service was 139.

Oh so many?! Any numbers on other nations, foremost england ?

Well, not that long. A few months, at best.

Have you dealt brifely with them ? You sound like you would have dealt with them much longer than that.

Now, however, I came back to my documentation, managed to track down a picture of U-120, and it has exactly the same wirecutter as the one in the french book:

hehe, but you don't know which boat exactly this is ?

My pleasure entirely.

I will PM you.

BTW: You said that you have visited that Kilo, could you make interiour photos ?

[Wings_of_Wrath]

Originally Posted by Deamon

] So what are we waiting for ?

I see you hang around all day and night on this forum, shouldn't you be in the university instead ?

Since how long are you modeling ?

Since how long do you have the wish to develope games ?

So when i understand you right you want to be part of this project ?

I hope you know what you are getting into. I hope you are aware that such a project require some serious dedication and commitment over long periods of time. Most would quit after a few months. It must be much more than a hobby to you and require that you give a quite high priority to it, in you life over other things. Although it makes alot of fun too such a project is a serious thing.

But sounds kinda that you know what you want. Sounds like you are one of the guys i have looked for

You don't know how lonlay i am as an WWI u-boat nut. I don't have noone in the team who matches my level of knowledge. This is the first time i don't feel alone.

Damn right I want in the project.

I know exactly what I'm getting myself into - I have friends who are software devellopers, and my work for school and for my job (I was doing architecture for a Swiss firm but in the meantime I quit) was similar in a way - It means working until the job is done, spending night afer night in front of the computer screen, making sure every bolt is in the right position... Only this time I will be working on a subject I like.

I'm in the middle of my exam session, so I mostly stay at home and study for the next few weeks. In the meantime, the computer is running in the background, with the forum window open, in case something new comes up...

Well, as far as modelling is concerned, my earliest attempts were back in '98 when I tried to make myself a flight sim using FST (Flight Simulator Toolkit) of the Saab J29 Tunnan.
I made the models in Autocad, and, because the engine didn't support textures, I used different colour blocks to make the paint and markings. I remember working at it furiously over several months, and in the end I released it on the web... It might still be out there somewhere, I don't know... I lost my copy in a computer crash a few years ago.
Also, from 2002 to the present I did some skins for flight sims like Microsoft Flight Simulator and Il 2, as well as some minor mods for SH2.
Other than that, a lot a modelling for architecture, but using specialised software like "Allplan Nemetsheck" and ocasionally 3ds Max. However, I'm a total noob at bump-mapping and other useful "arts" in the game industry.

Glad you think so. I know how you feel, because until quite recently I thought myself to be the only person interested in the XIXth century forts around Bucharest (made by the same guy that designed the fortifications of Liege during WW1, general Alexis Brialmont) and last week I made contact with another guy from my school who not only shares the interest, but he's even more passionate about it than I am!

So what are we waiting for then ?

I don''t know. You're the boss. Zu ihre Befehl, Herr Kaleun!

How did you found the dreadnought site ?

Ahh, the magic of Google!...

Ehh, you look for german books or what ?

Raiders of the Deep is very common on eBay.

German books would be nice.
I have other technical works in the language, but most are WW2 era relating to aircraft, such as "Das Flugzeug", a 1000 page technical manual for most of the planes in the Luftwaffe written in 1939 by Oblt.Theo Sonnichtsen and re-published in 1942.
Und, ja, vielleicht ich kann nicht ein sehr gutes Deutsch sprachen, aber ich kenne mehr als genug ein kleines Technichesbuch zu lesen..

As for E-bay, call me old-fashioned, but I don't trust to buy somenthing I can't hold in my hands to make sure it exists....

You saw Morgenrot !? Great!
Where have you found it ?

Downloaded it as a torrent off the intenet.
As far as I know, it's out of copyright, so it can be downloaded freely.
Here's the link if you want it: http://torrentreactor.net/view.php?id=504442

Oh so many?! Any numbers on other nations, foremost england ?

Nope. The book was french, so it only related to France. I could try and find out from other sources though.

Have you dealt brifely with them ? You sound like you would have dealt with them much longer than that.

I'm a fast learner... In fact I've been intrested in submarines ever since, as a kid, I was read the story of Otto Weddingen and his U 9, but about two months ago I decided WW2 U-boote are becoming boring, so I started ammasing information on the WW1 boats.

Hehe, but you don't know which boat exactly this is ?

Yep. It's the U-119. It served in the French Navy as the René Audry, and was broken up in 1937.

BTW: You said that you have visited that Kilo, could you make interiour photos ?

No. They wouldn't let me anyway near the military harbour with a camera, and after 9-11, joining NATO and the EU, the security measures have gone sky high. Sorry.

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by Wings_of_Wrath

Damn right I want in the project.

Great!

I know exactly what I'm getting myself into - I have friends who are software devellopers, and my work for school and for my job (I was doing architecture for a Swiss firm but in the meantime I quit) was similar in a way - It means working until the job is done, spending night afer night in front of the computer screen, making sure every bolt is in the right position... Only this time I will be working on a subject I like.

Great!

But you also know that i cannot pay you untill the release(assuming it will bring any money) ?

I'm in the middle of my exam session, so I mostly stay at home and study for the next few weeks. In the meantime, the computer is running in the background, with the forum window open, in case something new comes up...

Ah that's the trick!

I like your attitude.

Other than that, a lot a modelling for architecture, but using specialised software like "Allplan Nemetsheck" and ocasionally 3ds Max. However, I'm a total noob at bump-mapping and other useful "arts" in the game industry.

I have to learn proper texturing yet too. But you say you are architect that is pretty good actualy cose IUF is in a big demand for buildings too. What exactly pisses you off about your job, you don't like to model buildings ?

Glad you think so. I know how you feel, because until quite recently I thought myself to be the only person interested in the XIXth century forts around Bucharest (made by the same guy that designed the fortifications of Liege during WW1, general Alexis Brialmont) and last week I made contact with another guy from my school who not only shares the interest, but he's even more passionate about it than I am!

I too almost thought you are more pationate than me, what scared me a little bit

I don''t know. You're the boss. Zu ihre Befehl, Herr Kaleun!

You are almost there

Ahh, the magic of Google!...

And then you found my site on the link page ?

German books would be nice.
I have other technical works in the language, but most are WW2 era relating to aircraft, such as "Das Flugzeug", a 1000 page technical manual for most of the planes in the Luftwaffe written in 1939 by Oblt.Theo Sonnichtsen and re-published in 1942.
Und, ja, vielleicht ich kann nicht ein sehr gutes Deutsch sprachen, aber ich kenne mehr als genug ein kleines Technichesbuch zu lesen..

Phantastic! Then you are a winner. You HAVE to know german if you want to go deep into this subject. Becose most stuff is in german.

As for E-bay, call me old-fashioned, but I don't trust to buy somenthing I can't hold in my hands to make sure it exists....

I will come back to this issue later again.

Downloaded it as a torrent off the intenet.
As far as I know, it's out of copyright, so it can be downloaded freely.
Here's the link if you want it: http://torrentreactor.net/view.php?id=504442

Great!

Nope. The book was french, so it only related to France. I could try and find out from other sources though.

I build an internal database in an chronological order with which ASW asset was introduced when and how it was used and spreaded out vs. time and stuff.

You could help me to build it, especialy when you have additional nongerman/nonenglish sources :hmm:

What i usualy do is to read my sources, then read them again with a textmarker and mark all relevant passages and when i'm done i systematicaly extract the data and structure it in my own database. Later i derive the game features from it. That way assuring highest possible authenticity and accuracy.

I'm a fast learner... In fact I've been intrested in submarines ever since, as a kid, I was read the story of Otto Weddingen and his U 9, but about two months ago I decided WW2 U-boote are becoming boring, so I started ammasing information on the WW1 boats.

I also have the impression from you that you are an very inteligent person and suck up a subject fast and indepth.

Oh yeah the implications of Weddingens action reaching far beyond the war

It makes people go u-boat till the present day

Yep. It's the U-119. It served in the French Navy as the René Audry, and was broken up in 1937.

If it served there then there must be more pics of it. In french archives maybe ?

No. They wouldn't let me anyway near the military harbour with a camera, and after 9-11, joining NATO and the EU, the security measures have gone sky high. Sorry.

LOL

Back in the days before i started with IUF i wanted to model and simulate this boat in the project i was working on at that time: http://www.nord-com.net/heinrich.lang/Typ205/Typ205.htm

[Wings_of_Wrath]

Originally Posted by Deamon

But you also know that i cannot pay you untill the release(assuming it will bring any money) ?

Who the hell said anything about pay?
I want in because I want to sink ships with my UEII, and I don't see anybody else queing up to build me a simulator... I figure that if I help you, you will finish sooner. (now of course, AFTER it's finished....)

I have to learn proper texturing yet too. But you say you are architect that is pretty good actualy cose IUF is in a big demand for buildings too. What exactly pisses you off about your job, you don't like to model buildings ?

Yeah, I suppose that by now the main ships in the game are all finished, and you need help with the harbours.

I'm not pissed because I don't like modelling buildings, I'm pissed because architecture is also about lots of paperwork (Building permits, permits from the Ministry of the Environment, the Local Council, etc) and idiotic clients. Each client I have thinks he or she knows more about architecture then I do after 6 years of University education, and one even accused me of lying when I told him what he wanted was physically impossible.
So bottom line is, enough of that!

And then you found my site on the link page ?

No, I found link to your page in the gallery, while I was admiring your U1.

Becose most stuff is in german.

I suppose it is.

You could help me to build it, especialy when you have additional nongerman/nonenglish sources

I would love to, but first I have to know what data you have sofar.

What i usualy do is to read my sources, then read them again with a textmarker and mark all relevant passages and when i'm done i systematicaly extract the data and structure it in my own database. Later i derive the game features from it. That way assuring highest possible authenticity and accuracy.

I'm still shocked you didn't know too much about Dazzle.
Like I said, ships painted like that are really hard to miss, and for the latter part of the war, it's obligatory they make an apearance.

If it served there then there must be more pics of it. In french archives maybe ?

I don't know. I don't have acess to the french archives, and all other I could find on the boat was this postcard:

Back in the days before i started with IUF i wanted to model and simulate this boat in the project i was working on at that time: http://www.nord-com.net/heinrich.lang/Typ205/Typ205.htm

Welll, I don't really like modern boats, they're like big black sausages with antenae sticking out of them at the top, but the Typ 205 is more like an old-fashioned boat, especially the bridge that is reminiscent of both the WW1 submarines and the Typ XXI.

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by Wings_of_Wrath

Who the hell said anything about pay?

I just wanted to make sure that you know what you are into. Superfluous questions eh ?

I want in because I want to sink ships with my UEII, and I don't see anybody else queing up to build me a simulator... I figure that if I help you, you will finish sooner.

Then welcome in the IUF team!

I will ask Neal to add you to the dev forum

(now of course, AFTER it's finished....)

Ehh, what ?

Yeah, I suppose that by now the main ships in the game are all finished, and you need help with the harbours.

Oh no, only few ships are somewhere nearly ready. That means there are planty of ships still to do. So you can still become a ship engineer

This is maybe a welcomed relief from building buildings for you. But alot of ports need to be done too, coastile settlements some cities and other stuff.

I'm not pissed because I don't like modelling buildings, I'm pissed because architecture is also about lots of paperwork (Building permits, permits from the Ministry of the Environment, the Local Council, etc) and idiotic clients. Each client I have thinks he or she knows more about architecture then I do after 6 years of University education, and one even accused me of lying when I told him what he wanted was physically impossible.
So bottom line is, enough of that!

So that's the reason. Tell me how do you like the WWI architecture and coloring of the buildings, especialy the german one ?

No, I found link to your page in the gallery,

In the dreadnought gallery ? I haven't seen a link to my site there.

while I was admiring your U1.

Oh, thanks

But wait till you see the real U 1 meet. PM me your mail i will send you the introduction package.

I suppose it is.

How comes that you know german ?

I would love to, but first I have to know what data you have sofar.

I have alot of data but it has yet to be puted into the database.

I'm still shocked you didn't know too much about Dazzle.
Like I said, ships painted like that are really hard to miss, and for the latter part of the war, it's obligatory they make an apearance.

Oh i knew about dazzle but i can't remember it being mentioned in one of the accounts i red. And most of the time i was strongly focused on u-boats. I research one by one. First was u-boats turn. But the first release plays in the prewar time anyway so dazzle is irrelevant there.

I don't know. I don't have acess to the french archives, and all other I could find on the boat was this postcard:

Do you have this postcard ?

Welll, I don't really like modern boats, they're like big black sausages with antenae sticking out of them at the top, but the Typ 205 is more like an old-fashioned boat, especially the bridge that is reminiscent of both the WW1 submarines and the Typ XXI.

Yes, good observation

[Wings_of_Wrath]

Originally Posted by Deamon

Then welcome in the IUF team!

Thank you!

Oh no, only few ships are somewhere nearly ready. That means there are planty of ships still to do. So you can still become a ship engineer

This is maybe a welcomed relief from building buildings for you. But alot of ports need to be done too, coastile settlements some cities and other stuff.

Well, buildings are alot easier to model than ships, so maybe until I become a better modeler I can keep on doing buildings.

Tell me how do you like the WWI architecture and coloring of the buildings, especialy the german one ?

Oh, I like 1900 style architecture, especially the hybrid brick arches /steel rail combination for building floors.
Here in Romania we have some very fine houses from that period and they closely resemble examples of architecture from the rest of Europe, so maybe I could use them as models.
As far as the coloration goes, I think the closest we can ge to the real thing is by looking at colorised period poscards:

In the dreadnought gallery ? I haven't seen a link to my site there.

You're right. I saw your models in the gallery, and then found a link to your site in the links page:
http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/sources.php

How comes that you know german ?

Well, I learned in school.
Other than that, Ich bin viertel Deutsch.
Some of the major towns in Transylvania were settled by Saxon colonists in the middle ages, including the town where my father was born, Muhlbach (Sebes) and there is a sizable german comunity in my country.

But the first release plays in the prewar time anyway so dazzle is irrelevant there.

Indeed. First U1, then the Dazzle...

Do you have this postcard ?

Nope. Sorry. I found the picture on the internet.

[Deamon]

Well, buildings are alot easier to model than ships,

You think so ?

Depends alot on the building i think. I don't find it that difficult to model ships.

so maybe until I become a better modeler I can keep on doing buildings.

I don't mind some buildings are good too. Actualy i hoped to find someone who can specialize in buildings. Das past wieder wie die Faust aufs Auge

Oh, I like 1900 style architecture, especially the hybrid brick arches /steel rail combination for building floors.
Here in Romania we have some very fine houses from that period and they closely resemble examples of architecture from the rest of Europe, so maybe I could use them as models.

Oh i love this old architecure. I always start to dream when i look at the images. Not only the buildings but also the beauty natural landscapes and how this architecture fits in it. Oh i love this landscapes. I would like to recreate some of it in the sim.

As far as the coloration goes, I think the closest we can ge to the real thing is by looking at colorised period poscards:

I have planty.

I have alot of new stuff about Kiel. This is the first City and ports that have to be modeled.

Well, I learned in school.

Have you take this courses voluntarily ?

Other than that, Ich bin viertel Deutsch.

Ach so! Prima, dan wirst du dich bei Uns wie zuhause fühlen

Some of the major towns in Transylvania were settled by Saxon colonists in the middle ages, including the town where my father was born, Muhlbach (Sebes) and there is a sizable german comunity in my country.

Strange, many people i met through this project are partialy german.

[Wings_of_Wrath]

Originally Posted by Deamon

You think so ?
Depends alot on the building i think. I don't find it that difficult to model ships.
.

Come to think of that, I don't know. I've never tried to model a ship
I just assumed they were harder because of all the curves.
Also, the buildings for the game should be much more simpler than the U-boats, because you won't be spending too much time looking at them. If the port panorama looks really good, there's no need to acurately model each and every building, good textures would do that for us. (Look at the clever use of textures in "Mafia", for example. That's one of the most atmospheric games I know, and yet almost all the buildings are simple cubes with nifty texturing. It's so good that the illusion grips you when you're standing right next to them, not to mention the general impression you get when you look from afar. I guess we really could learn a thing or two from that game.) And from what I gather, right now you've got more people working on the models that in the texture department. If It's any help, I wanted to learn bump-mapping anyway...

I don't mind some buildings are good too. Actualy i hoped to find someone who can specialize in buildings.

Prima! Ich werde dann eure Baukunstspezialist sein!

Das past wieder wie die Faust aufs Auge

Hmm.. Ich kann die Worter diese Phrase verstehen, aber diese Redewendung kenne ich noch nicht... Was zum Kuckuck soll es bedeuten? (like the fists in the eyes? )

Oh i love this old architecure. I always start to dream when i look at the images. Not only the buildings but also the beauty natural landscapes and how this architecture fits in it. Oh i love this landscapes. I would like to recreate some of it in the sim.

I know what you mean. I have this neat little album about Constanza (the port town on the Black Sea where my parents live and I spent most of my childhood) in the 1900, and I'll be damned if it didn't look a whole lot better back then...
Of course, we might just be sentimentalists, because if we lived back then we would of have had to fight in the World War (possibly one another, since Romania was on the Entente side), and death is not that high on my priority list anyway...
Funny thing is, that with my mixed heritage, my great-grandparents did fight on opposite sides of the war. Those from Transylvania fought in the Austro-Hungarian army, while those from Dobrogea and Moldova fought with the Romanian one.
Luckly for me, they never met on the battlefield... (it would have been nigh impossible anyway, because one of my great-grandparents was busy shelling the Italians at Piave, another was shooting Russians up in the north instead, and the two remaining ones fought against the German Army in Wallachia and Moldova)

I have alot of new stuff about Kiel. This is the first City and ports that have to be modeled.

I supposed as much. I like the look of the old Germaniawerft....

Have you take this courses voluntarily ?

Well, sort off... when I started learning german, I was in the 4th grade and I had to because that was the language that was being taught in my school. By the 6th grade, however, I was in the Special German language class... And then I went to a highschool where I studied English and French, and then College, where I took up Italian... So that's why my German's so rusty, weil ich habe kein Deutsches Wort ins sieben Jahre gesprochen...Aber ich werde alles wieder entsinnen.

Ach so! Prima, dan wirst du dich bei Uns wie zuhause fühlen

So wird`s hoffentlich sein!

Strange, many people i met through this project are partialy german.

Na ja, selbstverständlich, das wenn ein Kerl ein bisschen Deutsch ist, dann kommt es immer so normalerweise für ihn die Deutsche U-boote zu lieben!

[2019]

Interesting topic here!

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by Wings_of_Wrath

Come to think of that, I don't know. I've never tried to model a ship I just assumed they were harder because of all the curves.

It's not difficult you will see. I made a little tut for that. It's more harder to model the curves of a woman

Also, the buildings for the game should be much more simpler than the U-boats, because you won't be spending too much time looking at them.

In IUF you will not only look at the buildings but you will also....

ah i will explain this on the dev forum

If the port panorama looks really good, there's no need to acurately model each and every building, good textures would do that for us.

I need more fancier buildings in IUF. I will explain this later.

(Look at the clever use of textures in "Mafia", for example. That's one of the most atmospheric games I know, and yet almost all the buildings are simple cubes with nifty texturing. It's so good that the illusion grips you when you're standing right next to them, not to mention the general impression you get when you look from afar. I guess we really could learn a thing or two from that game.) And from what I gather, right now you've got more people working on the models that in the texture department. If It's any help, I wanted to learn bump-mapping anyway...

Mafia ? Wasn't it a game with an iso perspective ?

And yes, texturing and bumpmapping would be good.

Hmm.. Ich kann die Worter diese Phrase verstehen, aber diese Redewendung kenne ich noch nicht... Was zum Kuckuck soll es bedeuten? (like the fists in the eyes? )

This is a phrase you use when something fits perfectly. When it fits like the fist on the eye

I know what you mean. I have this neat little album about Constanza (the port town on the Black Sea where my parents live and I spent most of my childhood) in the 1900, and I'll be damned if it didn't look a whole lot better back then...

This album would interest me :hmm:

Of course, we might just be sentimentalists, because if we lived back then we would of have had to fight in the World War (possibly one another, since Romania was on the Entente side), and death is not that high on my priority list anyway...
Funny thing is, that with my mixed heritage, my great-grandparents did fight on opposite sides of the war. Those from Transylvania fought in the Austro-Hungarian army, while those from Dobrogea and Moldova fought with the Romanian one.
Luckly for me, they never met on the battlefield... (it would have been nigh impossible anyway, because one of my great-grandparents was busy shelling the Italians at Piave, another was shooting Russians up in the north instead, and the two remaining ones fought against the German Army in Wallachia and Moldova)

Yeah we would fight each other

Yes it wasn't such nice time to live in, frist WWI then the chaos betwin the worldwars and then uncle Hitler and WWII and total distruction, but i still love the beauty landscapes

Don't know about my relatives in WWI but in WWII some from my family was imprisoned by the germans and had to crawl betwin the fronts and dig crawling passages for the soldiers. Then later got imprisoned by the russians and had to dig now for the russians lol.

One of our relative was in the Waffen SS. Involuntarily though.

I supposed as much. I like the look of the old Germaniawerft....

I love the look of this old yards. And i want them to look pretty authentical. More than just textured boxes.

So that's why my German's so rusty, weil ich habe kein Deutsches Wort ins sieben Jahre gesprochen...Aber ich werde alles wieder entsinnen.

Müste eher heißen: weil ich sieben Jahre lang kein Wort Deutsch gesprochen habe

Na ja, selbstverständlich, das wenn ein Kerl ein bisschen Deutsch ist, dann kommt es immer so normalerweise für ihn die Deutsche U-boote zu lieben!

Haha, ja genau

[Wings_of_Wrath]

Originally Posted by Deamon

It's not difficult you will see. I made a little tut for that. It's more harder to model the curves of a woman

Well, a ship is also reffered as "she", so I suppose it is equally difficult...

ah i will explain this on the dev forum

Ah, now I see...

Mafia ? Wasn't it a game with an iso perspective ?

There was one, indeed, but not the one I was reffering to:
http://www.mafia-game.com/indexnews.htm

This album would interest me :hmm:

It would intrest you even more once I tell you the name of the guy who designed most buldings in the peninsulla back in the late XIXth century. It was an Austrian named Georg Linz. So the buildings are quite close to what you would expect in Kiel around the same time...

I love the look of this old yards. And i want them to look pretty authentical. More than just textured boxes.

Well it depends on the buildings and the texturing- some will look authentic enough without modelling too much of the details, while some will need more care.

Müste eher heißen: weil ich sieben Jahre lang kein Wort Deutsch gesprochen habe

See, told you it was rusty!

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by Wings_of_Wrath

There was one, indeed, but not the one I was reffering to:
http://www.mafia-game.com/indexnews.htm

There is so little info about it on the site. Is it still under developement ?

It would intrest you even more once I tell you the name of the guy who designed most buldings in the peninsulla back in the late XIXth century. It was an Austrian named Georg Linz. So the buildings are quite close to what you would expect in Kiel around the same time...

Even better!

Looking forward.

Well it depends on the buildings and the texturing- some will look authentic enough without modelling too much of the details, while some will need more care.

Right.