Australian Muslims Outrage at Reporting of "Raw Meat" Comments (Merged)

[Dan D]

Hitler Youth member Pope is about to visit Turkey:
"Shalom, goosefu...ers" (Seig Hiel!).

Next stop: Isreal (with French accent).

Hattip: Titanic Magazin

[Skybird]

1. Ratzinger became a HJ member late in the war, because it was compulsory. Neither he nor his family were Nazis or sympathizers with Hitler. All biographies about him, as far as I have heared of them, seem to agree that his family was opposed to the Nazis. He himself says these two points, too.

2. When you really want to lower yourself to the niveau of the Titanic magazine (the magazine exists, but if the titel on the photo is true or fake I do not know), then at least write correct German, it is not "Seig Hiel", but "Sieg Heil".

This constant bashing from Ratzingerphobics by trying to push Ratzinger into the Nazi corner becomes tiresome. If you disagree with his policies, say so and explain. Instead simply throwing mud is for Neandertal men.

[Coda]

I fail to see any humor, or reason, for this post.

[HunterICX]

eh...whats that? it didnt made me laugh and didnt even gave me a smile...what in earths name means that.

[bradclark1]

This constant bashing from Ratzingerphobics by trying to push Ratzinger into the Nazi corner becomes tiresome. If you disagree with his policies, say so and explain. Instead simply throwing mud is for Neandertal men.

I think it's just a case of pulling the tail. Nothing to get upset about, I think.

[The Noob]

Ratzinger is no nazi. What do you want to tell me next, Guenter Grass is nazi? That would be the same BS.

I don't care what Ratzinger does (Atheist) but he should take care what he says.

[CB..]

he's one of the shiney happy papal

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by The Noob

What do you want to tell me next, Guenter Grass is nazi?

He was one and is a fat liar, phony and hypocrite.

Disclosure of Waffen-SS Membership

On 12 August 2006, in an interview [1] about his forthcoming book While Skinning the Onion, Grass stated that he had been a member of the Waffen-SS. Before this interview, Grass was seen as someone who had been a typical member of the "Flakhelfer generation", one of those too young to see much fighting or to be involved with the Nazi regime in any way beyond its youth organizations.

On August 15, 2006, the online edition of "Der Spiegel", "Spiegel Online", published three documents from US forces dating from 1946, verifying Grass's Waffen-SS membership. [2].

After an unsuccessful attempt to volunteer for the U-Boat fleet at age 15, Grass was conscripted into the Reichsarbeitsdienst, and then called up for the Waffen-SS in 1944. He was trained as a tank gunner and fought with the 10th SS Panzer Division Frundsberg until its surrender to US forces at Marienbad. At that point of the war, youths could be conscripted into the Waffen-SS instead of the army; this was unrelated to membership of the SS proper. Grass said [3]:

"It happened as it did to many of my age. We were in the labour service and all at once, a year later, the call-up notice lay on the table. And only when I got to Dresden did I learn it was the Waffen-SS."
Many have come to Grass' defense based upon the fact the Waffen-SS membership was very early in Grass' life. For example, novelist John Irving has come to the defence of Grass and criticised those who would dismiss the achievements of a lifetime because of a mistake made as a teenager.[4] However, as Grass has for many decades been an outspoken left-leaning critic of Germany's treatment of its Nazi past, his statement caused a great stir in the press. Grass's biographer Michael Jürgs spoke of "the end of a moral institution" [4]. Lech Wałęsa had initially criticized Grass [5] for keeping silent about his SS membership for 60 years but in a couple of days had publicly withdrawn his criticism after reading the letter of Grass to the mayor of Gdańsk[6] and admitted that Grass "set the good example for the others". Joachim Fest, conservative German journalist, historian and biographer of Adolf Hitler, told the German weekly "Der Spiegel" about "progressive and left-wing" Grass' disclosement:

"After 60 years, this confession comes a bit too late. I can't understand how someone who for decades set himself up as a moral authority, a rather smug one, could pull this off."[5]
Rolf Hochhuth said it was "disgusting" that this same Grass, "politically correctly", had publicly criticized Helmut Kohl and Ronald Reagan's visit to a military cemetery at Bitburg in 1985, because it also contained graves of Waffen-SS soldiers. Also, Christopher Hitchens has pointed out that there have been critics who have called Grass' admission to be merely a publicity stunt to sell more copies of his new book.[6]

On August 14, 2006, the ruling party of Poland, the "Law and Justice" party, called on Grass to relinquish his honorary citizenship of Gdańsk. Jacek Kurski stated, "It is unacceptable for a city where the first blood was shed, where World War Two began, to have a Waffen-SS member as an honorary citizen." However, according to a poll [7][8] ordered by city's authorities, vast majority of Gdańsk citizens did not support Kurski's position. The mayor of Gdańsk, Paweł Adamowicz, said that he opposed submitting the affair to the municipal council because it was not for the council to judge history.[7]

In September 2006, 46 authors, poets, artists and intellectuals from various Arab countries published a letter of solidarity with Grass, praising his admission of membership in the Waffen-SS as a sign of bravery, worthy of respect and recognition. [9]

Note that he was gung-ho at the age of 15 (that would be 1942) to try to "volunteer for the U-Boat fleet." This was 2 years prior to his draft call-up at the age of 17-18.

<sarcasm>No signs of Nazi wannabee here. Nope. </sarcasm>

And I love the last paragraph, which links to this NZZ (Zurich) article, charmingly translated via Babelfish:

14. September 2006, Neue Zürcher Zeitung

Embarrassing solidarity
Arab writers support Guenter Grass

In a Communiqué, which appeared in several Arab daily papers, stated 46 writers, poet, artist and intellectual one from different Arab countries their solidarity with Guenter Grass: "as we cannot make a pubertierenden young person, who stood under the influence of hoellischen National Socialist propaganda, responsible for a behavior, free choice permitted?" The signers see confession in Grass ' the weapon S to have belonged an indication of the courage, which earns respect and acknowledgment. The criticism at Grass is interpreted as campaign "with the goal of diverting the attention from the crimes the Israeli, which are committed in Palestine and Lebanon,". The Israeli "neo-Nazis" are called: "you kill Palestinians and Israeli, destroy their countries, establish around them partition walls and are them into camps." The wording reminds very strongly of the language of the Iranian president Ahmadinejad.

To the signers of the document prominent intellectual ones belong like the Egyptian Romancier and culture journalist Gamal aluminum Ghitani, the director of the supreme Council OF Culture in Egypt, Jabir Asfur, the Bahrain poet Qasim Haddad or the Moroccan poet Mohamed Bennis.

The Communiqué reveals the unawareness of the involved ones over the debate around Guenter Grass in Germany. It shows however above all that none knows the signer the work of the German Nobelpreistraegers, although for some years some books of him are present on Arab. Also over the position from Grass to political questions, above all its occurring for the existence right of Israel, prevails complete unawareness.

The document says against it much out about the presentness of many Arab intellectual. They live in a world of conspiracy theories, faraway the reality, confound populist slogans and Rhetorik with intellectual discourse and see no necessity to argue with the Holocaust and the crimes of the national socialism.

Some the signer are gladly-seen guests with various meetings to the culture dialogue. It would be to be wished that this most embarrassing solidarity stating is presented for discussion.

[The Noob]

Of course he was involved in this. All that Nazi-Propaganda made him volunteering. Just like everyone else in his age did this in the Nazi time.

And if i would have been a Tank Gunnner of the german army i would not want to tell anyone, so i understand Guenter GraSS () decision.

So i do not think he's a real Nazi.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by The Noob

Of course he was involved in this. All that Nazi-Propaganda made him volunteering. Just like everyone else in his age did this in the Nazi time.

Yep. That was quite a lot of Nazis.

Thanks for the confirmation.

[The Noob]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Yep. That was quite a lot of Nazis.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Every German WW2 Soldier=Nazi? This seems to be what you are thinking. No need to continue this discussion then, because i see this different.

Back to topic then. (Wich damn topic has this thread anyway?)

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by The Noob

Every German WW2 Soldier=Nazi?

No but you yourself said "all that Nazi-Propaganda made him volunteering."

This may shock you but some people say that Nazi propaganda promoted - are you ready for this - Nazism.

[Skybird]

Propaganda can also work not by hate tirades, but by hiding an ugly face and instead focus on more "charming" aspects: camp-fires, adventures, being with the boys, "Kameradschaft". My grandfather himself admitted that it was tempting for the young ones to join some nazi organization, whcih he only refused because he was a bit older then and already had learned to look behind the curtain and seeing the ugly, warmongering face of real Nazi policies. See the old German movie "Die Brücke" how innocent injustice can appear in a children's mind if it got brainwashed enough.

Concerning Grass, it is very well possible that his young age fooled him and thus he fell for the propaganda of the U-Boot-Flotte or the SS. We simply don't know. what we know is that the unit of Waffen-SS where he ended up is not known by historcial record to have participated in any massacre or other war crimes, and has not participated in attacks on civil populations in occupied territories. Waffen SS is not the same like SS. Many Waffen SS units simply were this: armed elite combat units. but of course, there were the real bad ones, too. The Nazi tempted to concentrate willing thugs in units, instead of spreading them around thorughout all forces. They minimized the info that was made available to the public that way, leaked by soldiers who were forced to do things they would not tolerate to remain silent about. If you shoot the population of a local village, you want the crime being done by willing men who will keep their mouths shut.

His biggest mistake may have been that he revealed his past so late, while always having criticised Germany for it's dealing with the Nazi past. That is double standards. He is a pontificating lecturer, "mit erhobenem Zeigefinger". I never liked the man and his style, nor his books. Tried them two times, both times was bored to death. the only good thing I ever heared of him was the text he wrote for a video collage, "why one does not set living people alight".

Grass made his revelations short time before publishing his latest book. And he got the attention for it that he probably wanted. Probably this is the main poi9nt this all is about. I didn't liked him before, and like him even less now becasue of his obvious timing.

[The Avon Lady]

An amazing coincidence. From today's Jerusalem Post (registration required):

Peeling the Onion.

Grass is a nobody.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

An amazing coincidence. From today's Jerusalem Post (registration required):

Peeling the Onion.

Grass is a nobody.

Interesting article. When I read this part from the JP story then I pretty much had made up my mind on this Grass guy:

John Irving, who has cited Grass as a major influence on his writing, said that he is still a hero in his eyes and called him, "A daring writer and a daring man."

Grass is a waste of space.

I thought this thread was about the Pope? Surely the Pope is not in the same league as this Grass character?