Hull damage and crash depth?

LittleGrebe · 02-19-17, 09:20 PM

Playing SH4 with TMO and OTC at 100% realism, yes I like a challenge.

Have been reading a lot of threads on the forums here, very interesting! But after years of hibernation I'm not in shape (yet). So, it happens that on the way back home I meet a merchant and don't have any torpedoes left.

This game is not for the faint-hearted (my captain is called Brave Sir Robin) so I attack him with my deck gun. He will go down but it may give some hull damage.

Then, it's still a long way home and I may have to dive to because of some unfriendly destroyers. The problem is, I don't know what the maximum depth is with my level of hull damage.

My question: is there some rule of thumb for the relation between hull damage and crash depth?

For instance, when 25% hull damage, don't dive beyond 75% of your test depth?

fireftr18 · 02-19-17, 09:45 PM

The first thing you need to do is get rid of those minstrels. They never shut up even at silent running. There really is no rule. The amount of damage, and the condition of the sea are factors. If you really want to know, save, dive and see how deep you can go before the hull buckles. Then restart the game.

torpedobait · 02-20-17, 10:38 AM

I agree with Fireftr18. Last night my Balao boat was bombed as I was initiating a crash dive. Little bugger came out of nowhere, unseen by the radar. I didn't have time to assess the percent hull damage because the damage reports were coming so quickly, and the boat seemed to be diving out of control. The engines were damaged and even with the bow angled up and speed set to Flank we kept sinking stern first at a good clip. The last thing I noted before we all perished was a depth reading of 1007 feet!

That is not a norm. I've also intentionally taken a Gato down to see how deep it would go. We imploded at an improbable 432 feet. I've taken other Gatos down to 500 feet with no effect. So there is likely a degree of randomness to the maximum you can attain. One thing common to all boats is that if your boat is capable of reaching 500 feet, going below that, especially at a slow speed, will cause your boat to keep sinking until it is too late. I have learned to never exceed 500 feet unless I am running at full speed, but even then may have to blow the tanks to get back above 500'. Below 600' even blowing the tanks may not be enough to rise back to a safer depth. If you hear loud popping, check the hull damage reading. Each pop will increase hull damage by about 5%, and the deeper you go the more frequent the pops, of course. Then all will fade to black...

LittleGrebe · 02-20-17, 12:54 PM

Thanks for your replies!

Testing is not that easy because you have to have certain amounts of hull damage and you can't do it yourself. Or maybe you can, by ramming one of your allied ships in the harbour...

Listening to your answers, there seems to be no clear relationship.

Just before logging in I was at sea and a nasty Japanese tanker managed to damage my hull: 49%. That was a good moment to dive for hell.

My Salmon with a test depth of 250 feet was crushed at 300 feet. No warning, no recovery time, four/five things broke down at the same moment and flooding started in all compartments. A emergency surface did not work at all. The boat really imploded within seconds.

Made me think, the maximum depth does not change. But maybe hull damage gives you less warnings? Like, 'your hull is damaged, that's your fault, now you start diving too, we will teach you'.

Normally, you get all kinds of warnings, the popping sound, some flooding in a compartment etc. and you have time to surface.

Just a thought, anyone?

propbeanie · 02-20-17, 01:10 PM

You do not always make it to crush depth, nope. Sometimes you might get a "We're taking damage, sir!" or a "We're taking on water, sir!" or a message of one of the boat's compartments being flooded, but not always, especially the S Boats, and if you've got Webster's "Fix" on them... even without any damage, you might not make it to Test Depth...

In TMO, when you do a "New Construction" start, part of the "Shakedown" or "Sea Trials" is you're supposed to dive your boat until you see the conning tower starting to show signs and buckle. You have to take your time doing it, else like torpedobait said, you "can't get enough wind beneath your wings" to lift you back up. Problem with diving to that depth is that now you've got hull damage, and can't go that deep anymore. I haven't bothered with that in a while...

THEBERBSTER · 02-20-17, 03:16 PM

Keep your eye on the digit hull counter.
If you start to go too deep you will see it start to move.
Once it starts to move you need to act quickly.
Blow some ballast CTRL+S and then hit the A key to Maintain Depth.
Hopefully no further hull damage will occur.
Peter

LittleGrebe · 02-20-17, 05:29 PM

Thanks, very comforting, 'once it starts to move'

Just kidding, this may work, in an emergency situation you don't have many options as maintain depth or surface will bring you a watery grave.

Have to say, looking at all those flooded compartments always makes me a bit nervous, but you need that full repair screen to see the hull counter.

ArditoCorsaro · 03-09-17, 10:29 AM

My suggest is that: that s a simulator. So we re supposed to act like a real life skipper.
We should yet pay the combat risk ok?
So if wr wanna survive we should not put the boat in jeopardy without reason.
In combat conditions we re forced to go over test depth sometime.
But like several submariners suggested to me (an admiral that served on ex uss barb in '60 and my grandpa, former ww2 submariner, awarded for gallantry in action.) they sad once to me: never go over test depth without reason. Sometime can ever go wrong.
For example you can loose power and dive planes are blocked to full dive (like the uss grunion....) and you can reach crush depth in few seconds with a non return dive angle (sorry for my english).
The hull damages are fully related to crish depth, and the steel conditions too. For example a boat with a crush depth of 200 meters, with a test depth of 100, just after being commissioned with a young steel, in good conditions can also dive to 250 and come back, but later yoy should scrap it even, since the steel taked too pressure.
A boat with yars of service havent a steel good like one commissioned yesterday.
It depend by how many deep dives it maked.
(every deep dive they mark a cycle for the steel. A boat with many cycles, have a steel that suffered much pressure in his career. And that can be dangerous if you push it too deep. A boat with few cycles have a steel in better conditions also if it s older. That s not absolute ofc and depend by many factors.).
In the game that s simulated so in part:
If you taked the 10% damages to the hull that s mean your crush deoth is reduced by 10%.
So if you ve a crush depth of 200 meters now it s 180.
So calculate this when you taked damages. And dont push the luck if you arent forced by combat conditions or by stealth (for example i like play with older boats until late war. So with a p class, test deoth it s 250 feets but by 1943 in japanese home waters i stay to 300 feets for increase my chance to avoid detection by japanese patrol planes.).
That s my suggest

OswaldSpengler18 · 12-01-20, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleGrebe

Just before logging in I was at sea and a nasty Japanese tanker managed to damage my hull: 49%.
My Salmon with a test depth of 250 feet was crushed at 300 feet.

This is an older post but i dusted off my sh 4 with TMO 2.5 and playing it right now.
This result(collapse at 300 feet) seems very reasonable to me.Hull damage decreases crush depth.with 100% hull integrity it should around 450 feet because crush depth is a litttle about 1.5 times your test depth.

The main problem with diving deep in SH4 TMO 2.5 is that the boat becomes instable at low speeds beyond 550 feet.Until 550 feet one can go with 2 to 3 knots.Beyond that the boat needs to be faster and faster to stay at commaned depth.

the solution is therefore to incease speed and set dive planes for surface.

700 feet its around 6knots.Which sucks because it drains the batteries.

IF your engines are ****ed up and you are sub 550 feet the boat is lost.Even blow ballast wont do it.

02-19-17, 09:20 PM	#1
LittleGrebe Watch Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 16 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Hull damage and crash depth? Playing SH4 with TMO and OTC at 100% realism, yes I like a challenge. Have been reading a lot of threads on the forums here, very interesting! But after years of hibernation I'm not in shape (yet). So, it happens that on the way back home I meet a merchant and don't have any torpedoes left. This game is not for the faint-hearted (my captain is called Brave Sir Robin) so I attack him with my deck gun. He will go down but it may give some hull damage. Then, it's still a long way home and I may have to dive to because of some unfriendly destroyers. The problem is, I don't know what the maximum depth is with my level of hull damage. My question: is there some rule of thumb for the relation between hull damage and crash depth? For instance, when 25% hull damage, don't dive beyond 75% of your test depth?

02-19-17, 09:45 PM	#2
fireftr18 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,526 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	The first thing you need to do is get rid of those minstrels. They never shut up even at silent running. There really is no rule. The amount of damage, and the condition of the sea are factors. If you really want to know, save, dive and see how deep you can go before the hull buckles. Then restart the game. __________________ Of all the forms of Martial Arts, Karaoke causes the most pain!

02-20-17, 10:38 AM	#3
torpedobait Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,057 Downloads: 397 Uploads: 0	I agree with Fireftr18. Last night my Balao boat was bombed as I was initiating a crash dive. Little bugger came out of nowhere, unseen by the radar. I didn't have time to assess the percent hull damage because the damage reports were coming so quickly, and the boat seemed to be diving out of control. The engines were damaged and even with the bow angled up and speed set to Flank we kept sinking stern first at a good clip. The last thing I noted before we all perished was a depth reading of 1007 feet! That is not a norm. I've also intentionally taken a Gato down to see how deep it would go. We imploded at an improbable 432 feet. I've taken other Gatos down to 500 feet with no effect. So there is likely a degree of randomness to the maximum you can attain. One thing common to all boats is that if your boat is capable of reaching 500 feet, going below that, especially at a slow speed, will cause your boat to keep sinking until it is too late. I have learned to never exceed 500 feet unless I am running at full speed, but even then may have to blow the tanks to get back above 500'. Below 600' even blowing the tanks may not be enough to rise back to a safer depth. If you hear loud popping, check the hull damage reading. Each pop will increase hull damage by about 5%, and the deeper you go the more frequent the pops, of course. Then all will fade to black... __________________ Run Silent, Run Deep, and Sink 'em All

02-20-17, 01:10 PM	#5
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,743 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	You do not always make it to crush depth, nope. Sometimes you might get a "We're taking damage, sir!" or a "We're taking on water, sir!" or a message of one of the boat's compartments being flooded, but not always, especially the S Boats, and if you've got Webster's "Fix" on them... even without any damage, you might not make it to Test Depth... In TMO, when you do a "New Construction" start, part of the "Shakedown" or "Sea Trials" is you're supposed to dive your boat until you see the conning tower starting to show signs and buckle. You have to take your time doing it, else like torpedobait said, you "can't get enough wind beneath your wings" to lift you back up. Problem with diving to that depth is that now you've got hull damage, and can't go that deep anymore. I haven't bothered with that in a while... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

02-20-17, 03:16 PM	#6
THEBERBSTER Growing Old Disgracefully Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Dibden Purlieu - Southampton Posts: 9,605 Downloads: 1123 Uploads: 0	Keep your eye on the digit hull counter. If you start to go too deep you will see it start to move. Once it starts to move you need to act quickly. Blow some ballast CTRL+S and then hit the A key to Maintain Depth. Hopefully no further hull damage will occur. Peter __________________ LSH3-2015 <> TUTORIALS <> ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW <> ALL IN ONE PLACE SH4 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS SH5 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS Always Here To Help A Fellow 'Subber' \| Need An Answer to A Question Just Send Me A PM

02-20-17, 12:54 PM	#4
LittleGrebe Watch Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 16 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Thanks for your replies! Testing is not that easy because you have to have certain amounts of hull damage and you can't do it yourself. Or maybe you can, by ramming one of your allied ships in the harbour... Listening to your answers, there seems to be no clear relationship. Just before logging in I was at sea and a nasty Japanese tanker managed to damage my hull: 49%. That was a good moment to dive for hell. My Salmon with a test depth of 250 feet was crushed at 300 feet. No warning, no recovery time, four/five things broke down at the same moment and flooding started in all compartments. A emergency surface did not work at all. The boat really imploded within seconds. Made me think, the maximum depth does not change. But maybe hull damage gives you less warnings? Like, 'your hull is damaged, that's your fault, now you start diving too, we will teach you'. Normally, you get all kinds of warnings, the popping sound, some flooding in a compartment etc. and you have time to surface. Just a thought, anyone?

02-20-17, 05:29 PM	#7
LittleGrebe Watch Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 16 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Thanks, very comforting, 'once it starts to move' Just kidding, this may work, in an emergency situation you don't have many options as maintain depth or surface will bring you a watery grave. Have to say, looking at all those flooded compartments always makes me a bit nervous, but you need that full repair screen to see the hull counter.

03-09-17, 10:29 AM	#8
ArditoCorsaro Planesman Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Italy Posts: 185 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	My suggest is that: that s a simulator. So we re supposed to act like a real life skipper. We should yet pay the combat risk ok? So if wr wanna survive we should not put the boat in jeopardy without reason. In combat conditions we re forced to go over test depth sometime. But like several submariners suggested to me (an admiral that served on ex uss barb in '60 and my grandpa, former ww2 submariner, awarded for gallantry in action.) they sad once to me: never go over test depth without reason. Sometime can ever go wrong. For example you can loose power and dive planes are blocked to full dive (like the uss grunion....) and you can reach crush depth in few seconds with a non return dive angle (sorry for my english). The hull damages are fully related to crish depth, and the steel conditions too. For example a boat with a crush depth of 200 meters, with a test depth of 100, just after being commissioned with a young steel, in good conditions can also dive to 250 and come back, but later yoy should scrap it even, since the steel taked too pressure. A boat with yars of service havent a steel good like one commissioned yesterday. It depend by how many deep dives it maked. (every deep dive they mark a cycle for the steel. A boat with many cycles, have a steel that suffered much pressure in his career. And that can be dangerous if you push it too deep. A boat with few cycles have a steel in better conditions also if it s older. That s not absolute ofc and depend by many factors.). In the game that s simulated so in part: If you taked the 10% damages to the hull that s mean your crush deoth is reduced by 10%. So if you ve a crush depth of 200 meters now it s 180. So calculate this when you taked damages. And dont push the luck if you arent forced by combat conditions or by stealth (for example i like play with older boats until late war. So with a p class, test deoth it s 250 feets but by 1943 in japanese home waters i stay to 300 feets for increase my chance to avoid detection by japanese patrol planes.). That s my suggest __________________ "Execute unrestricted air and submarine warfare against Japan."