2/3 scale P51 Mustang takes to the air for the first time

[Commander Wallace]

There are a number of aircraft enthusiasts here with Eichhörnchen and his excellent paintings, Jim's various well detailed models, Von Due looking for info on codes on vintage aircraft and even aktungs first flight. I'm sure there are many others here. I found this video of the first flight of a 2/3 scale P 51 D Mustang. The powerplant is an LS1 350.

I'm wondering if this was built from a kit or custom built and it begs the question, are there kits available other iconic aircraft such as the ****e-Wulf FW 190, Messerschmitt Bf 109 or Me-262 jet aircraft and the Japanese Mitsubishi A6M Zero ? I'm sure others have a favorite WW2 aircraft like the Vought F4U Corsair and / or others. I hope we see others like this one flying at our local air shows. This video was taken in 2011.

[Von Due]

Nice!

As for kits, I'm not sure but I have some vague, possible memories of (at least planned) kits for a 75% FW-190. There are blueprints/no kits for sale from
http://www.marcel-jurca.com/index.php?lang=en including several 190s.

I also very vaguely seem to remember something about a FW-190 homebuild/kit with a replica of the original engine (all replicas I am aware of use newer engines as the BMW engines were all lost).

EDIT: I found it, not sure if they're still being made though
http://www.flugwerk.de/html/page.php?GID=19&SID=4



I had no idea but someone made a kit of another classic warbird
http://www.loehle.com/loehle-aircraf...-flying-tiger/

[AVGWarhawk]

P-40 needs just a bit larger radiator inlet under the chin and sharks mouth.

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

P-40 needs just a bit larger radiator inlet under the chin and sharks mouth.

Agree! I was wondering about the inlet, if there were certain models with a narrow inlet or if this was "artistic freedom", or perhaps to streamline this replica for a weaker engine.

Curious historical fact: The common P-40's shark mouth came after being inspired by British P-40s in North Africa, themselves being inspired by the German 110's in the ZG 76 ground attack wing, sporting the shark mouth.

[Commander Wallace]

A big thanks to you Von Due for posting videos of other WW2 era reproduction aircraft. I was reasonably certain there were other " kit " planes or at the very least, plans to make aircraft like this. You just answered this question. Speed figures and handling characteristic data as well as range would be the next question. I'm wondering if there are Me-262's reproductions flying as well. If so, they should have modern metallurgy as that in modern compressor blades in modern turbo fan jet engines to withstand high temperatures. Considering how scarce the actual aircraft like the P-51 mustang and others are, it's great to see them being reproduced. It goes a long way toward keeping the memory of those that flew these aircraft alive so others can remember their sacrifices.

[Von Due]

My pleasure, Commander! Truth to be told, I think how much cooler wouldn't it have been if WW2 was nothing more than a giant air show with none of this shooting business, just magnificent planes flying around. Oh well...

About the P-40, looks like the French guys at Marcel Jurca did a proper replica:

http://www.marcel-jurca.com/index.ph...id=252&lang=en

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Von Due

Curious historical fact: The common P-40's shark mouth came after being inspired by British P-40s in North Africa, themselves being inspired by the German 110's in the ZG 76 ground attack wing, sporting the shark mouth.

Are you sure? The Advance Volunteer Group flying in China had the sharks mouth on the early P-40.

EDIT: You are correct! Cool fact!

[Sailor Steve]

=Commander Wallace;2462838]I'm wondering if there are Me-262's reproductions flying as well.

Several that I've heard of. Not 2/3, but full-size.

If so, they should have modern metallurgy as that in modern compressor blades in modern turbo fan jet engines to withstand high temperatures.

That I don't know, but one would think so.

[Von Due]

Ace find, Sailor Steve! I wonder if it's the one I was just reading up on
http://www.airspacemag.com/military-...695578/?no-ist

Time frame seems right.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Several that I've heard of. Not 2/3, but full-size.



That I don't know, but one would think so.

Originally Posted by Von Due

Ace find, Sailor Steve! I wonder if it's the one I was just reading up on
http://www.airspacemag.com/military-...695578/?no-ist

Time frame seems right.

Thanks a lot Steve for finding and posting the video. It's greatly appreciated. I saw this video before but it was labeled as an original aircraft on youtube, not a reproduction. It's awfully hard to tell. Thanks as well Von Due for posting the link to the article. It's a great read. A full size reproduction Me-262 is even better than a scaled aircraft. It would be great to see one flying up close, just not on the business end of it's weapons.
( yes, I know they are unarmed )

Thanks again to you both.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

I'm wondering if there are Me-262's reproductions flying as well. If so, they should have modern metallurgy as that in modern compressor blades in modern turbo fan jet engines to withstand high temperatures. Considering how scarce the actual aircraft like the P-51 mustang and others are, it's great to see them being reproduced. It goes a long way toward keeping the memory of those that flew these aircraft alive so others can remember their sacrifices.

The Me 262 Project is a company formed to build flyable reproductions of the Messerschmitt Me 262, the world's first operational jet fighter. The project was started with the Texas Airplane Factory and administered by Classic Fighter Industries. It is based at Paine Field in Everett, Washington, United States, near Seattle. The project team of designers, engineers and technicians recentlycompleted the flight test program and delivery of the first of five jets.
The aircraft are powered by highly relaible General Electric CJ610turbojet (Lear jets)engines, concealed inside detailed reproductions of the original Junkers Jumo 004B engines and nacelles. The metallurygy of WWII Germany would envy todays stuff. Some accomodations still had to be made:

The Jumo 004 turbojet engine would operate around 10 hours before failure, often times less, while producing a modest 2,000 pounds of thrust. They suffered turbine blade failures which were not understood by the Junkers team. They focused on areas such as material defects, grain size and surface roughness. The initial 004A engines built to power the Me 262 prototypes had been built without restrictions on materials, and they used scarce raw materials such as nickel, cobalt, and molybdenum in quantities which were unacceptable in production. It was realized that the Jumo 004 would have to be redesigned to incorporate a minimum of these strategic materials, and this was accomplished. All the hot metal parts, including the combustion chamber, were changed tomild steel protected by an aluminum coating, and the hollow turbine blades were produced from folded and welded Cromadur alloy (12% chromium, 18% manganese, and 70% iron) Eventually, in December 1943, blade-vibration specialist Max Bentele was once again brought in during a meeting at the RLM headquarters. He identified that the failures were caused by one of the blades' natural frequencies being in the engine running range. His solution was to raise the frequency, by increasing the blade taper and shortening them by 1 millimeter, and to reduce the operating speed of the engine from 9,000 to 8,700 rpm. Given the lower-quality steels used in the 004B, these engines typically only had a service life of some 10–25 hours, perhaps twice this in the hands of a skilled pilot. (no way to fight a war BBY!) Another shortcoming of the engine, common to all early turbojets, was its sluggish throttle response. Worse, it was fairly easy to inject too much fuel into the engine by throttling up too quickly, allowing heat to build up before the cooling air could remove it. This led to softening of the cheaper turbine blades, and was a major cause for engine failures. Nevertheless, it made jet power for combat aircraft a reality for the first time. A more reliable and far easier engine to acquire and maintain is the General Electric J85. This engine has been around for many years in military aircraft and is also available as a commercial engine as the CJ610. In its non-afterburning configuration, the J85 produces around 2,500 pounds of thrust. While the J85 sounds like a comparatively simple choice to replace the Jumo, it also posed a significant problem.
Each Jumo 004 weighs over 1,500 pounds and is mounted ahead of the airframe’s center of gravity. The J85 weighs around 400 pounds, and if it was mounted in the same position on the wing, the aircraft would be around 2,200 pounds lighter but that would shift the center of gravity too far aft (too tail heavy) for safe flight. After some innovative engineering, the solution was brilliantly simple – use the engine casting for the Jumo 004, but alter the interior of the casting to accommodate the J85. In short, the J85 was mounted inside the shell of the Jumo engine and thus the weight and balance problems went away and the new engines would not alter the profile of the engine nacelles.

If Germany had had the J85.... http://www.cybermodeler.com/special/stormbird.shtml This one 'landed' at the Aviation Museum in McMinnville OR where my daughter was an assistant for four college years! I spent a lot of visits there!

Now on display, “Yellow 5” is a non-flying reproduction of an Me-262, utilizing the same materials and construction techniques at the originals, built 65 years ago. (So accurate are Legend Flyers’ reproductions, that Messerschmitt supplied them Werke Numbers, as the last five machines off the production line.) It’s marked as an aircraft of Jadgeshwader 7 (11/JG-7) based at Brandenburg-Briest, flown by Leutnant Alfred Ambs in early 1945. While flying the Me-262, Ambs would become an ace, shooting down seven American B-17s and one P-51. It was in ”Yellow 5” that Ambs was shot down on March 24, 1945 while attacking a formation of B-17s. Caught by surprise by Earl “Squirrel” Lane, (hey a combat painting for Eichhörnchen!!) one of the Tuskegee Airmen, “Yellow 5” was riddled with bullets, one of which tore away Ambs’ oxygen mask. He bailed out at 17,000 and landed in a tree; breaking his kneecap and tearing ligaments in his leg. Luckily, Ambs had a chance to see “Yellow 5” before his death earlier this year, and was a key part of making sure its markings were correct.

> EDIT: Woops! already been done "Tuskegee Thunder"1st Lt. Earl R. Lane of the 100th Figher Group destroys a Messerschmitt-262 jet high over Germany.
Also shown: the Luftwaffe were using a captured P-51 (all black) Mustang during this action. Wow! I looked that up:

[Von Due]

Those captured P-51s, I had no idea! That's a pretty special chapter in the WW2 air war.

Another time: A Sopwith Pup replica


from
http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/

[Sailor Steve]

Cool!

How about something a little more primitive?

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

How about something a little more primitive?

Amazing video! Closer in time to the Wright bros they flew than we are to the retirement of the Concorde.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

The Me 262 Project is a company formed to build flyable reproductions of the Messerschmitt Me 262, the world's first operational jet fighter. The project was started with the Texas Airplane Factory and administered by Classic Fighter Industries. It is based at Paine Field in Everett, Washington, United States, near Seattle. The project team of designers, engineers and technicians recentlycompleted the flight test program and delivery of the first of five jets.
The aircraft are powered by highly relaible General Electric CJ610turbojet (Lear jets)engines, concealed inside detailed reproductions of the original Junkers Jumo 004B engines and nacelles. The metallurygy of WWII Germany would envy todays stuff. Some accomodations still had to be made: If Germany had had the J85.... http://www.cybermodeler.com/special/stormbird.shtml This one 'landed' at the Aviation Museum in McMinnville OR where my daughter was an assistant for four college years! I spent a lot of visits there! > EDIT: Woops! already been done "Tuskegee Thunder"1st Lt. Earl R. Lane of the 100th Figher Group destroys a Messerschmitt-262 jet high over Germany.
Also shown: the Luftwaffe were using a captured P-51 (all black) Mustang during this action. Wow! I looked that up:

Thanks a lot for the Information. This is an excellent dissertation on the engine. The general Electric J-85 powered the Northrop Grumman F-5 Tiger. The J-85 turbojet isn't nearly as efficient as modern turbo fan designs so I'm sure it has a short range. The CJ10 Turbojet engine you mentioned is the same engine without the afterburner. The Jumo and BMW Jet engines had a very short TBO ( Time between Overhauls ) The scarcity of raw materials and the metallurgy contributed greatly to that short time.

I never knew the Mustang had fallen into German hands. Do you have any more information on that ?