The game (AI) might be a bit harder somehow.

Skyhigh · 07-23-17, 03:57 PM

Playing mainly 1968 because I thought 1984 was too easy thanks to the OP sub and the OP MK48.

But 1968 isn't that hard either once you adjust to the material you have.

Surface attacks:
1) single out a ship
2) send MK37s in passive after it (always set them to passive and circle, in case a wire breaks)
3) once near the target, guide until explosion. Activate <1 KYD. Works guaranteed
4) other ships will come to the sink site. Treat them the same, with passive MK37s.
5) Sometimes ships come straight at you. MK37 on their exact bearing and activate <1 KYD. Works guaranteed.

Submarines:
Well basically the same. Wire-guide the MK37s around. Your own sub can stay at 5 knots during the whole affair.
Yes sometimes they find you, and you dodge a few. But generally it is not that hard.

I don't know what the AI should do different, but with Mk37s swimming out and running pretty silent in passive, it is not that very challenging at the moment. Fun for a few missions, but then the method becomes a bit of a chore.

Julhelm · 07-23-17, 05:42 PM

Basically the AI can't evade the lead computing torpedoes, so we're going to revert them to our original lag-pursuing weapons that worked better.

caine007 · 07-23-17, 07:25 PM

Enemy subs don't seem to use changes of depth to avoid torpedoes. I'm guessing that's a temporary thing related to them burying their heads in the sand or diving below crush depth which they also don't do anymore.

AI is hard to get right (it's also hard to get wrong, flawless AI is pretty easy to achieve but even less fun)

It'll come good

Destex · 07-24-17, 12:14 AM

I'm missing AI subs firing snapshots down the bearing of my torpedoed. Should be standard practice.

jerseytom · 07-24-17, 06:55 AM

Seems to me like once you go active with a torpedo, all enemy combatants bug out in a very predictable manner and run away far. Like rather than trying to get out of a search cone and come back to attack me or send a snapshot in my general direction, they just pick a direction and run.

Going up against say an Echo and November, the overly effective strategy for me is to put a Mk37 out there on its way in their general area while I'm still building up a solution. Given their speed - or lack thereof - you have plenty of time to get a head start.

The instant one of the enemy boats get a sniff of a torpedo in the water, or if they go active with a likelihood of finding me, just have to go active with the torpedo. Enemy boats go to flank and run - meaning the escort will become a non-issue, and the target just makes more noise to hone in on and sink.

Once the target is sunk or you feel comfortable enough it won't outrun your torpedo, you can set a heading to gain maximum separation on the escort and you can break contact and leave fairly easily.

Julhelm · 07-24-17, 07:13 AM

The problem is the AI cannot break lock because the torpedo homing is too good. We know what the problems are and will fix it.

LeopardDriver · 07-24-17, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm

Basically the AI can't evade the lead computing torpedoes, so we're going to revert them to our original lag-pursuing weapons that worked better.

Not sure if I am a friend of this. The torpedos should lead, like the do in reality.

Also, some torpedos already can be tricked by the AI already easily. When I shoot a Test-71 or USET at a survaced vessel. say a Grisha, they will run away, let it come close, and drop a decoy. The torpedo gets totally confused by that and looses track. Thing is, the decoy also messes up my sonar completely, so I can`t steer the torpedo by hand as well. And once I get a good solution again, the Grisha has already done a 180 and is out of reach of the torp, because the russian torps have such a limited range.

My opinion is, if my shot was good, I should be given credit for that by the game. It would be frustrating for everyone, especially new players, if the AI could get rid of the torpedos too easily.

Just my 5 cents. The game is awesome btw, great work!

Shadow · 07-24-17, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm

Basically the AI can't evade the lead computing torpedoes, so we're going to revert them to our original lag-pursuing weapons that worked better.

This sounds good, in theory, but I'm worried it'll further degrade the Mk 37's already poor performance, since it's bound to lose any lagging pursuit against most any military vessel.

The "passive torpedo detection in baffles" bug needs to be fixed first, to provide the necessary window to win said pursuit.

Skyhigh · 07-24-17, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow

This sounds good, in theory, but I'm worried it'll further degrade the Mk 37's already poor performance, since it's bound to lose any lagging pursuit against most any military vessel.

But the MK37 is really easy. It is very silent and you can wire-guide to <1 KYD and then activate it. Never fails. Surface vessel always gone, or damaged.

No need to have them in pursuit.

Shadow · 07-24-17, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

But the MK37 is really easy. It is very silent and you can wire-guide to <1 KYD and then activate it. Never fails. Surface vessel always gone, or damaged.

No need to have them in pursuit.

Maybe something changed in the last beta, because in my experience even passive Mk 37s are detected in sufficient advance to have vessels turn tail and accelerate to the point the main purpose of the torpedo's reduced to chasing vessels away. And I can't consider that good performance.

Skyhigh · 07-24-17, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow

Maybe something changed in the last beta, because in my experience even passive Mk 37s are detected in sufficient advance to have vessels turn tail and accelerate to the point the main purpose of the torpedo's reduced to chasing vessels away. And I can't consider that good performance.

When you put them in a target's baffles, you have no problem

And it's also safe to put one ahead on the target, so that when they do run you can activate one right in front of his bow.

This is the main point of this thread that I started - it is actually quite easy once you get the hang of it and I hope the AI gets a bit more difficult.

jerseytom · 07-24-17, 04:37 PM

Haven't tried it in 1.06 Beta but my experience previously had been that even a shot from dead astern would be detected. Or maybe it was when it enabled into passive search. I believe the dev team acknowledged that was a bug, whatever it was.

Skyhigh · 07-24-17, 04:49 PM

This is what I am talking about. All this is done without me moving at all. Just fire torpedoes and move these around.
At Elite now I can play like this, never get detected, never get shot at.

Manoever a torpedo to dead ahead of the target.

Then hit Activate at very close:

And the target is always done for:

For subs, you can easily manoever the wire-guidance torp into the baffles, and again activate at <1 KYD and it has nowhere to run:

Of course sometimes wires break. But make sure activation point is initially set on passive and waaaay far from ownship. Maybe at circling in a position where they can still damage the enemy. And then fire another one, hoping it doesn't break. If it doesn't you gonna have a kill if you manoever it around like this.

Haukka81 · 07-25-17, 01:36 PM

That works because we know 100% where is enemy and what distance. Plot is super accurate.

Least thats one reason, ship contacts move real time in map , easy to get torpedo right spot. Im sure that it wont be so easy in real life , least in year 68...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PL_Harpoon · 07-25-17, 01:51 PM

While I agree with the first example (I even made a separate thread about this) I don't seem to find a solution to the second situation.

If the AI can't detect a torpedo what it's supposed to do?
One thing I noticed in your screenshot is that it's baffles are quite wide - about 60 degrees but again, what would you want the AI to do i this situation? More frequent baffle clears?

07-23-17, 03:57 PM	#1
Skyhigh A-ganger Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 74 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 1	The game (AI) might be a bit harder somehow. Playing mainly 1968 because I thought 1984 was too easy thanks to the OP sub and the OP MK48. But 1968 isn't that hard either once you adjust to the material you have. Surface attacks: 1) single out a ship 2) send MK37s in passive after it (always set them to passive and circle, in case a wire breaks) 3) once near the target, guide until explosion. Activate <1 KYD. Works guaranteed 4) other ships will come to the sink site. Treat them the same, with passive MK37s. 5) Sometimes ships come straight at you. MK37 on their exact bearing and activate <1 KYD. Works guaranteed. Submarines: Well basically the same. Wire-guide the MK37s around. Your own sub can stay at 5 knots during the whole affair. Yes sometimes they find you, and you dodge a few. But generally it is not that hard. I don't know what the AI should do different, but with Mk37s swimming out and running pretty silent in passive, it is not that very challenging at the moment. Fun for a few missions, but then the method becomes a bit of a chore.

07-24-17, 12:14 AM	#4
Destex Sailor man Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 44 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I'm missing AI subs firing snapshots down the bearing of my torpedoed. Should be standard practice. __________________

07-23-17, 05:42 PM	#2
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 690 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	Basically the AI can't evade the lead computing torpedoes, so we're going to revert them to our original lag-pursuing weapons that worked better.

07-23-17, 07:25 PM	#3
caine007 A-ganger Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 72 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Enemy subs don't seem to use changes of depth to avoid torpedoes. I'm guessing that's a temporary thing related to them burying their heads in the sand or diving below crush depth which they also don't do anymore. AI is hard to get right (it's also hard to get wrong, flawless AI is pretty easy to achieve but even less fun) It'll come good

07-24-17, 06:55 AM	#5
jerseytom Watch Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 19 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Seems to me like once you go active with a torpedo, all enemy combatants bug out in a very predictable manner and run away far. Like rather than trying to get out of a search cone and come back to attack me or send a snapshot in my general direction, they just pick a direction and run. Going up against say an Echo and November, the overly effective strategy for me is to put a Mk37 out there on its way in their general area while I'm still building up a solution. Given their speed - or lack thereof - you have plenty of time to get a head start. The instant one of the enemy boats get a sniff of a torpedo in the water, or if they go active with a likelihood of finding me, just have to go active with the torpedo. Enemy boats go to flank and run - meaning the escort will become a non-issue, and the target just makes more noise to hone in on and sink. Once the target is sunk or you feel comfortable enough it won't outrun your torpedo, you can set a heading to gain maximum separation on the escort and you can break contact and leave fairly easily.

07-24-17, 07:13 AM	#6
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 690 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	The problem is the AI cannot break lock because the torpedo homing is too good. We know what the problems are and will fix it.

07-24-17, 04:37 PM	#12
jerseytom Watch Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 19 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Haven't tried it in 1.06 Beta but my experience previously had been that even a shot from dead astern would be detected. Or maybe it was when it enabled into passive search. I believe the dev team acknowledged that was a bug, whatever it was.

07-24-17, 04:49 PM	#13
Skyhigh A-ganger Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 74 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 1	This is what I am talking about. All this is done without me moving at all. Just fire torpedoes and move these around. At Elite now I can play like this, never get detected, never get shot at. Manoever a torpedo to dead ahead of the target. Then hit Activate at very close: And the target is always done for: For subs, you can easily manoever the wire-guidance torp into the baffles, and again activate at <1 KYD and it has nowhere to run: Of course sometimes wires break. But make sure activation point is initially set on passive and waaaay far from ownship. Maybe at circling in a position where they can still damage the enemy. And then fire another one, hoping it doesn't break. If it doesn't you gonna have a kill if you manoever it around like this.

07-25-17, 01:36 PM	#14
Haukka81 Medic Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oulu, Finland Posts: 162 Downloads: 368 Uploads: 0	That works because we know 100% where is enemy and what distance. Plot is super accurate. Least thats one reason, ship contacts move real time in map , easy to get torpedo right spot. Im sure that it wont be so easy in real life , least in year 68... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

07-25-17, 01:51 PM	#15
PL_Harpoon Engineer Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 210 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 4	While I agree with the first example (I even made a separate thread about this) I don't seem to find a solution to the second situation. If the AI can't detect a torpedo what it's supposed to do? One thing I noticed in your screenshot is that it's baffles are quite wide - about 60 degrees but again, what would you want the AI to do i this situation? More frequent baffle clears?