Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by h.sie

Hi Rubini,

the "randomness" is already implicitely contained in the error that results from the discretisation of the range. E.g.

Ship A has real range 977m. 1WO says 1000m. Error: 23m
Ship B has real range 1090m. 1WO says 1000m. Error: 90m
Ship C has real range 1000m. 1WO says 1000m. Error: 0m

and so on. You don't know the ships real range, so the error is random (from your perspective).

Easy to program and effective.

The problem with random numbers is that you can get different results for the same ship when you ask 1WO several times. And also you can get big discrepancies when you compare the range from the 1WO with the firing solution of the WP.

Ok, I will try to make the WP firing solution more inaccurate the same way I did it for the 1WO. Since the numerical values (distance steps: 100m, 200m, 500m, 1000m plus the ranges for these distance steps: 1000m, 3000m, 6000m) can easily be changed in the .exe with an Hex-Editor, fine-tuning of the accuracy can be done later and even individually. One only needs the adresses of the numbers in the .exe.

greetings,
h.sie

Ok! So, if you need beta testers I'm ready!

[Myxale]

I'm no Code-mancer, but i see what you mean. If the Delay causes such a hiccup in the working variables, then its better left alone.

And the Example above about the randomness is quite appealing. The misses are not otherworldly big and seem quite plausible.
After all those were all trained men where guesswork was concerned!

A nice find with the Seabed Repair Mod too. Since I use the one in your GUI. Will have to tweak it a bit after you 'adjustment' are done.

[LGN1]

Hi h.sie, hi Rubini,

interesting findings about the keel, Rubini.

Wrong information deleted! LGN1

@h.sie: I found more data about the submerged endurance of the VIIC. In the original 'U-Bootskunde' book for the VIIC from 1940 is a detailed description about the air cleaning mechanism with calculations about when the first oxygen has to be added...
At the end of the section it says:

'Der vorhandene Sauerstoffvorrat in Verbindung mit den Alkalipatronen ermöglicht, bei einer Besatzungsstärke von 37 Mann 72 Stunden ohne Unterbrechung unter Wasser zu bleiben.'

Usually, in SH3 more than 37 men are on board (Max. 51, Min. 32). Using a crew of 42 men, we can estimate a submerged endurance of 63 hours. So, I think we have historical information for the VIIC, IXC, and XXI. What is still missing is data about the type II.

To summarize:

Technical requirements for:
-IIA/D: ? maybe also 72 hours with xx men?
-VIIC: 72 hours with 37 men
-IXC: 72 hours with 44 men
-XXI: 150 hours with 50 men

Cheers, LGN1

[LGN1]

Hi,

concerning range accuracy: I think these values are fine

Range < 1000m : Messages in 100m steps
Range = 1000m - 3000m : Messages in 200m steps
Range = 3000m - 6000m : Messages in 500m steps
Range = 6000m - 10000m : Messages in 1000m steps
Range > 10000m : Messages in 2000m steps.

Maybe it would be good to reduce the 200m accuracy to a distance of 2000m instead of 3000m

I think 2000m accuracy for ranges over 10000m is fine, however, I would not increase it further (I guess from a gameplay point of view it does not really matter whether it is 1000m or 2000m accuracy). Maybe Hitman has some ideas about the estimation abilities of the officers back then

Concerning the weapon officer: For 90 degrees shots the distance does not matter, so I think it's fine to make the data a bit less accurate. Those players who want to be on the safe side just have to shoot at an angle of 90 degrees and everything is fine. The further away you are from 90 degrees the more risky it becomes. I like that. It encourages more realistic approaches also when you are using the weapon officer's assistance. Anyway, it would be probably better if there will be some feedback from users who actually use the weapon officer's assistance.

Cheers, LGN1

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by LGN1

Hi h.sie, hi Rubini,

interesting findings about the keel, Rubini. But are you sure about 'Critic Flotation=0.9999999'? IIRC, Critic Flotation gives the percentage a zone contributes to the buoyancy of the sub, i.e., a high value means that the sub is dragged down a lot if the zone is flooded. Therefore, I would expect that a small value for 'Critic Flotation' is better for avoiding the problems you describe (at least in the anti-humming bird mod 'Critic Flotation' controls how fast the sub sinks. Higher values mean faster sinking).
...

Cheers, LGN1

Hi LGN1,

I'm not absolutelly sure about what I will say but, my first impression when i tried to solve the problem was exactly the absence of that parameter (critic flotation) that was the culprit. I mean, if absent the game will use some standard value for it (what i don't know exactly which is), but must be some low one.

When i fine tunning by old LRT mod for my taste i noticed that "critic flotation" value is a percent from hit points which if overpassed then that compartment start to flood. So, if i use a very high HP with an almost 100% (0.999999) hit points damage necessary to start the flooding (critic flotation parameter) probably this compartment will never more start to flood.

And it is exactly what happened and solve the problem: now that virtual compartment (uboat_keel) don't flood anymore.

But I always can be wrong...what you think?

[LGN1]

Hi Rubini,

you are right I was confused ('Flotability' does what I described. But it's 0 here . Strange.). I edit my post above.

Cheers, LGN1

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by LGN1

Hi Rubini,

you are right I was confused ('Flotability' does what I described. But it's 0 here . Strange.). I edit my post above.

Cheers, LGN1

Yes, here a quote from VonHelshing, a guru on damage mod, from 2006:

Alternatively, instead of raising the hit points, you can raise the critic flotation a bit. It is a threshold; flooding starts only when the damage in a given compartment exceeds the critic flotation (as % of the hit points)

It's a delicate balance

.

[h.sie]

Hi LGN1,

I will look at the CO2 and compressed air. Thanks for the research - we'll need your data later.



At the moment the firing solution of WP is first priority, because it is related to the 1WO nearest visible contact changes.

In the meantime I could locate the routine which is responsible for the firing solution. I'll give the WP firing solution the same inaccuracy that I use for the 1WO / nearest visible contact so that there is no discrepancy.

I will program 4 ranges where the range steps change, so that there will be 5 different range steps possible. Knowing the addresses of these numbers in the .exe one can individually change these values.

h.sie

[Hitman]

concerning range accuracy: I think these values are fine

Range < 1000m : Messages in 100m steps
Range = 1000m - 3000m : Messages in 200m steps
Range = 3000m - 6000m : Messages in 500m steps
Range = 6000m - 10000m : Messages in 1000m steps
Range > 10000m : Messages in 2000m steps.

Maybe it would be good to reduce the 200m accuracy to a distance of 2000m instead of 3000m

I think 2000m accuracy for ranges over 10000m is fine, however, I would not increase it further (I guess from a gameplay point of view it does not really matter whether it is 1000m or 2000m accuracy). Maybe Hitman has some ideas about the estimation abilities of the officers back then

Range estimation by naked eye was much practiced in Uboat training, according to an interview with Georg Hess, they even went 8 times a day to sea in the academy with that sole purpose. The Uboat Commander's Handbooks also says that it's a skill that had to be practiced constantly.

Anyway, I would say that for ranges less than 1000 metres a 50 metres accurancy is better (May be even 20 metres), and that the point at which accurancy goes wild is when targets are beyond the horizon. From an Uboat's bridge the horizon is at 9 km, and the crew knew it, and used the horizon line to estimate range (Any target at the horizon is 9km, and before it <9 km) but when the hull starts getting hidden, estimations are only very rough guesses. So I would say that from 10-11km onwards accurancy should fell sharply.

[h.sie]

Hi Hitman,

thanks for your data. So what accuracies would you suggest?

Range < 1000m : 50m
Range = 1000-3000m : ?
Range = 3000-6000m : ?
Range = 6000-10000m : ?
Range > 10000m : ?

Greetings,
h.sie

[LGN1]

Hi Hitman,

thanks for the answer. Do you have some information about this:

Quote:

@h.sie: I found more data about the submerged endurance of the VIIC. In the original 'U-Bootskunde' book for the VIIC from 1940 is a detailed description about the air cleaning mechanism with calculations about when the first oxygen has to be added...
At the end of the section it says:

'Der vorhandene Sauerstoffvorrat in Verbindung mit den Alkalipatronen ermöglicht, bei einer Besatzungsstärke von 37 Mann 72 Stunden ohne Unterbrechung unter Wasser zu bleiben.'

Usually, in SH3 more than 37 men are on board (Max. 51, Min. 32). Using a crew of 42 men, we can estimate a submerged endurance of 63 hours. So, I think we have historical information for the VIIC, IXC, and XXI. What is still missing is data about the type II.

To summarize:

Technical requirements for:
-IIA/D: ? maybe also 72 hours with xx men?
-VIIC: 72 hours with 37 men
-IXC: 72 hours with 44 men
-XXI: 150 hours with 50 men

Quote

Cheers, LGN1

[h.sie]

deleted

[h.sie]

Oh, this was a fast shot. Inaccurate firing solution for WP officer (and TDC in auto targeting mode) already works. Now, in auto-targeting mode the TDC range wheel does not turn continuously, it jumps step-wise according to the programmed range steps.

Beta this weekend. V15B is on the horizon.

[h.sie]

• 50m/250m steps are possible for WP firing solution / TDC.

• for 1WO / nearest visual contact only 100m steps are possible.

[makman94]

Hi H.Sie , i would suggest to make a version with only the WO tweaked and another one version with the WO and the WP tweaked.
of course , this is your mod and the decision is yours