[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[Dice Holder]

I appear to be having CTDs while going to external view at pearl harbor.
It only happens at pearl no matter what sub

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by J0313

Okay so if the reason you say torpedoes weren’t used is because of lack of escorts than riddle me this. Why didn’t the allies respond with flurries of torpedoes whenever they detected an u-boat? They didn’t consider convoys to be low on the priority list and allocated rescources like mad in order to protect them. It should have been standard procedure to blast off ten mark 15’s ( in the case of a Fletcher class can) the moment they got a fix on the boat right? Wrong, that’s what depth charges And hedgehogs were for! And you keep talking about realism. Then why concern yourself with ship physics and other REALISM related fixes. Just leave the game in it’s same broke ass state and play it or don’t play it. Come on man. And you want to take it personal when I am bringing up what I consider to be a valid point. Gee sorry bro. Didn’t know you had such thin skin. I’ll make sure to tone it down a bit in order to protect your delicate sensibilities. You should give this link a try. This will give you an idea of just how crappy the overall hit rate was for the IJN and thier vaunted Long Lance. http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-067.htm

You may wish to consider forming a Mod Team and incorporating whatever you feel is realism that is not being done by the FOTARSU team into a new super mod that better fits your views. Expressing your opinion is one thing, but you come off as having a chip on your shoulder. What you consider a valid point may well be such, but it is not going to be well received by a team that has worked literally for years on this mod when you are in attack mode. You sound semi-hostile at worst, over-argumentative at best. It would be appropriate for you to tone down the sarcasm a bit and show some respect for those who have worked tirelessly to improve what you call a "broke ass state" for all of us.

[captcrane]

originally posted by torpedobait You may wish to consider forming a Mod Team and incorporating whatever you feel is realism that is not being done by the FOTARSU team into a new super mod that better fits your views. Expressing your opinion is one thing, but you come off as having a chip on your shoulder. What you consider a valid point may well be such, but it is not going to be well received by a team that has worked literally for years on this mod when you are in attack mode. You sound semi-hostile at worst, over-argumentative at best. It would be appropriate for you to tone down the sarcasm a bit and show some respect for those who have worked tirelessly to improve what you call a "broke ass state" for all of us.

couldn't have said it better myself! J0313 you seem to be the 1 with a chip on your shoulder. silent hunter 4 is a game not the real thing! Chill out man. I for 1 tip my hat to all these modders they have fixed this broke ass game! Their hard work and massive amounts of their time being put into this game is incalculable. They have made this an enjoyable GAME! And they do it without any thanks. What have you done! I am sure whatever it is you want a pat on the behind for it. So next time you take a piss try using the head I for 1 am not interested to hear your spew!! They deserve a standing ovation Thank you FOTARSU team! You are doing an awesome job

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Dice Holder

I appear to be having CTDs while going to external view at pearl harbor.
It only happens at pearl no matter what sub

Can you tell us the date(s)? Also, do you have a "clean" install of the mod by chance, installed after clearing the Save folder? Do you have any additional mods added to it? I have found one BB that has a bad call, but it is very date-specific when that happens.

A really big thing now in the mod is the almost absolute necessity of using the LAA applet so that the game can utilize more of your computer's RAM, if available. This will be even more important for the next version. The best thread to read for that is CapnScurvy's Windows10; Large Address Aware; SH4 Install. While the Windows 10 is somewhat specific, it does apply all the way back to Vista 64-bit. The "64-bit" part is important, as is 4 or more gig of RAM. There are copies of it in the "Extras" folder in the mod's folder in MODS...

[Dice Holder]

It appears that the LAA has fixed the ctd
It was happening at Dec 8 1941

Edit
I just went to pearl harbor and I have no ground. everything is floating

[J0313]

Well the AI torpedo thing is good. You need to be careful with the effect on playability. There weren't any instances of Japanese warships firing torpedoes at submerged sub's that I know of and that will effect playability as well as historical accuracy in regards to Japanese abilities. Maybe you should think about this as an add on. I for one don't want to worry about being detected by an escort then having to worry about getting inundated with long lances buzzing around everywhere.

This is my first post that started all this. Nothing obnoxious or rude here, just my thoughts. Notice I stated that I thought the AI torpedo addition was GOOD. It can be used and can give ambiance to the game. However it needs to be kept in context otherwise you risk making the game ARCADE like.Hold your horses when you want to bring up "historically accurate" game play!?

If we want to do that, you would find most merchant ships seen in the Pacific were single or double merchants struggling by themselves to get between point A to B. Players who have come from SHIII have the idea that merchants traveled in convoys with warship escort for protection!! In the Pacific, this was seldom the case. You've been spoiled to think this is how the war progressed on all fronts.

Merchant freighters were thought to be the bottom of the barrel when it came to crew quality, protection needs, or any other consideration from the Japanese brass. The Japanese Military even looked at the smaller warships (Patrol Boats, Destroyers) as subpar to the needs and wants of the larger warships (Carriers, Battleships, Cruisers). I say "military" because the Navy was only a subpart of the military high command. Many times, specific area commanders were Army Generals who had the Navy answering to them! A lowly merchant (or group of them) who asked for Naval support had to go through the area commander (usually Army) for allowing such protection. He had no desire to "waste" recourses on such trivial reasons....and usually didn't. And, if you went from one area sector of command to another (which you did when traveling from say, Indonesia to Japan), you had to ask "that" commander for the same protection. He would "consider" your necessary need and could come to a different conclusion. Merchants towards the end of the war began to convoy up, but having support from escorts was a luxury they seldom got.

Much like every player I've every heard of using non historical practices to play the game (like time compression!), if we actually followed the true engagement of history the game wouldn't be played for more than a couple of hours and declared B O R I N G !! What challenge is there to sneak up on a single merchant with a couple of 50 caliber guns for defense? Lets start shooting fish in a barrel?!

Sorry, but the idea of torpedoes firing at subs is just as plausible as traveling from Pearl to the Marshall Islands in just 5 real time minutes.

This is Scurvy's reply. Now to me this reads like he is offended and a little sarcastic in his comments. Maybe it's just me but that's what I get from it. So I defended my position and myself. I don't like being talked down too or talked too like I am a three year old and don't know what I am talking about. And also in my original post I made a suggestion that perhaps this AI torpedo modification should be made as an add-on. This has been suggested before and I thought that was the whole pretense of this mod. FLAVOR TO TASTE, PLAY IT LIKE YOU WANT IT.

[J0313]

Notice the two sentences highlighted in green. There is nothing rude or confrontational in this whole post. This is the post that started it all.

Well the AI torpedo thing is good. You need to be careful with the effect on playability. There weren't any instances of Japanese warships firing torpedoes at submerged sub's that I know of and that will effect playability as well as historical accuracy in regards to Japanese abilities. Maybe you should think about this as an add on. I for one don't want to worry about being detected by an escort then having to worry about getting inundated with long lances buzzing around everywhere.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by J0313

Okay so if the reason you say torpedoes weren’t used is because of lack of escorts than riddle me this. Why didn’t the allies respond with flurries of torpedoes whenever they detected an u-boat? http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-067.htm

That's an easy one! The U-Boat was surrounded by hundreds of Allied merchies. What do you think the odds are those torpedoes would hit? Hmmmmmmm?

[J0313]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

That's an easy one! The U-Boat was surrounded by hundreds of Allied merchies. What do you think the odds are those torpedoes would hit? Hmmmmmmm?

As a general rule the U-boats were on the outside of the convoy. Hmmmm.
Especially after 1943 when it was almost impossible for U-boats to get close to the convoy.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by J0313

As a general rule the U-boats were on the outside of the convoy. Hmmmm.
Especially after 1943 when it was almost impossible for U-boats to get close to the convoy.

Okay, let's say the U-boats were outside the convoy. Whatever the percentage, then your choice is, do the hunter killer DDs go after the U-boat with hedgehogs and depth charges, a high percentage kill, or do they blindly unleash whatever torpedoes the DDs have in hopes for a lucky hit?

Unless the U-Boat were on the surface and attack parameters able to be worked out the torpedoes weren't possible. If they were on the surface, gunnery from all escorts and merchants would take them out much better than a lucky torpedo shot. It's all a matter of strategy.

The allies had enough DDs by the end of the war to independently roam ahead of the thousand ship convoy, find and at least drive the U-boats down to their vaunted incredible depth from which they were rendered entirely harmless. Then as they were kept down or killed the convoy steamed out of attack range so the U-Boats, alive or dead, could never reacquire the targets again.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

...do they blindly unleash whatever torpedoes the DDs have in hopes for a lucky hit?

Unless the U-Boat were on the surface and attack parameters able to be worked out the torpedoes weren't possible. If they were on the surface, gunnery from all escorts and merchants would take them out much better than a lucky torpedo shot.

Doesn't that kind of back up his point that torpedoes fired by escorts against subs is a bit silly?

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Dice Holder

It appears that the LAA has fixed the ctd
It was happening at Dec 8 1941

Edit
I just went to pearl harbor and I have no ground. everything is floating

I'm glad the LAA did the trick. There is a ~LOT~ going on in the harbor now. If you used the Free Camera to "fly" back to Pearl and you're too far out (not even as far as "render" distance), the scene will not render correctly, especially if you started outside the harbor, and used the camera to go back, since the "far side of the hill" was never drawn to begin with, and wasn't expected to have to be used, hence the "floating" gun emplacements, and not much else...

[AirShark]

Crash after loading im not using any other mods and im using v1.5 but when the intro finished and the loading screen appears at 75% the game crash

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by razark

Doesn't that kind of back up his point that torpedoes fired by escorts against subs is a bit silly?

The notion that escorts shouldn't/didn't/wouldn't fire torpedoes at subs is as unlikely as having a deck gun on board, but don't use it against targets (air, enemy ships, land units) because the "hit" rate isn't accurate enough to make it worth your while. Tell that to the Navy when they bombarded Iwo Jima, some of the most intense bombardment in the Pacific, and look what they got.....nothing much to show for it but spent shell casings. But, that didn't stop them from doing it! If you got 'em, use 'em!

Since the Japanese outfitted many of their warships with torpedo firing weaponry, it's silly to think they wouldn't use it against ANY suitable target.

Unless your willing to play this game as if its historically accurate by removing 90% of the escorts from Japanese merchant protection and realize a typical Japanese "convoy" is made up of single or maybe a double ship "group", unprotected. Their found traveling all by their selves, in numbers that will take weeks of game time to find.....BORING!! You're still left with the same conclusion, and fact.........those few Destroyers you do run into still had torpedoes in their arsenal, and there's no reason to believe they would refuse to use them when an enemy ship was detected and suitable to be fired upon. No matter what enemy unit it was?! Lets start making rational sense, rather than having personal preference come into defining historical accuracy.

[razark]

The argument was that Japanese escorts wouldn't use torpedoes on a sub, because it was too unlikely to get a hit.
The point was made that the Allies had torpedoes, but didn't use them.

The counterargument was that the Allies wouldn't have used them, because they were too unlikely to get a hit.


I'm just wondering why that constraint applies to the Allies, and not the Japanese.




I said nothing about what should or shouldn't be done in game for gameplay/fun/whatever reasons.