books on submarine tactics - Page 3

Linton · 01-24-06, 04:14 PM

So is this discussion on tactics ever going to get going or is it going to turn into an english lesson?

Bill Nichols · 01-24-06, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornwallis

So is this discussion on tactics ever going to get going or is it going to turn into an english lesson?

It's poor form to use the same word (going) three times in a single sentence....

Linton · 01-24-06, 04:33 PM

Would you please supply a reference to back-up your accusation?I speke the kweens inglish!!It has bin a very longg daiy and i have bin gowin four sixteen howrs

Abraham · 01-26-06, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornwallis

...It has bin a very longg daiy and i have bin gowin four sixteen howrs

This language style form is called "pleonasm".

01-26-06, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Nichols

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornwallis

So is this discussion on tactics ever going to get going or is it going to turn into an english lesson?

It's poor form to use the same word (going) three times in a single sentence....

Going...going...going...gone!

Linton · 01-28-06, 07:38 PM

So is it???

Kapitan · 03-05-06, 08:39 AM

tactic books blind mans bluff ive been refferd to is it any good?

Bill Nichols · 03-05-06, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapitain

tactic books blind mans bluff ive been refferd to is it any good?

Good book but not about tactics.

Linton · 03-05-06, 04:19 PM

I would start with Submarine Command by Ben Bryant.I believe it was required reading on the perisher course in the 1970s.I would also read a lot of the wartime (ww2) books by people such as Mars,Young etc.The basic techniques are always the same.Technology just gives you a better chance of hitting something and avoiding the counter -attack.This only really sunk (!) in with me when I went on three submarines from different eras and realised that apart from the propulsion system that they are not really different.It is the captain and luck that make the difference.I once asked an air-traffic controller at a major UK airport if they had a tactics manual.His reply was no-he just made it up on the day with the benefit of his experience.Submarine combat is the same
You will not find much on Nato tactics but you can try Milan Vego's book on Soviet Naval Tactics.Finally just get all the regular forum posters to pm you with their favourite tactic and you are probably onto a winner and pm me the final result!!

kschang · 03-06-06, 02:03 PM

Sub combat really haven't changed much. Subs go faster, dive deeper, sonars are better, and weapons are a wee bit smarter, but that's about it. Fundamentals like surprise, end-run, ambush, and keep a reserve for snapshot stuff are still around. Sprint-and-drift is very similar to land force's overwatch/leapfrong advance (in a way). The fundamentals don't change much.

SeaQueen · 03-11-06, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Nichols

Good book but not about tactics.

It's hard to find unclassified literature about sub tactics specifically. They're either really abstract and fundamental, like Koopman's Search and Screening from which you could make educated guesses about actual sub tactics if you could do the math, or else they're so vague as to not really tell you what was actually done. I suspect a lot of people prefer it that way too.

Linton · 03-12-06, 05:32 AM

Koopman's Searching and screening.I am not familiar with this one ,can you give me some details?

SeaQueen · 03-13-06, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornwallis

Koopman's Searching and screening.I am not familiar with this one ,can you give me some details?

Koopman was a mathematician during WWII. He invented a field of mathematics called search theory. It's basically the science of figuring out the best way to look for stuff. The most famous application of his work was figuring out how to plan the best possible airplane barrier searches in the Bay of Biscay. That lead to incredible casualties among U-Boats. His work had application beyond just ASW, though. It was also important for everything from search and rescue, to finding missing children, to crime scene investigations. Most every search manual ultimately references him. If you ask me, Koopman is one of the unsung scientist-heros fo WWII, his work was every bit as important as breaking the enigma code, and found far wider application.

Most of ASW is basically just searching so everything is based on his ideas. It's really complicated, though. If you're not up to evaluating an elliptic intergral, you probably shouldn't bother with this book. It won't say, "to find a submarine, do this..." but it will give you to tools to figure out what the best tactics might be, and where to begin experimenting.

Linton · 03-14-06, 07:45 AM

I found it on abebooks at a starting price of $150!!Does anybody know if it is available in cyberspace or can photocopy or scan a copy for me?

Bill Nichols · 03-14-06, 08:17 AM

The theory of optimal search was first developed by B.O. Koopman, Search and Screening. A simplified and very accessible text The Theory of Search by Jack Frost is available in Microsoft Word format from Martin Colwell's SAR library. That work explains primarily maritime search planning.

Frost's articles (and many other search-related items) are available at:

http://www.sarinfo.bc.ca/Library/Pla...bPlanning.html

Enjoy!

01-24-06, 04:14 PM	#31
Linton Sea Lord Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,898 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	So is this discussion on tactics ever going to get going or is it going to turn into an english lesson? __________________ http://lintonsview.blogspot.com/

01-24-06, 04:33 PM	#33
Linton Sea Lord Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,898 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Would you please supply a reference to back-up your accusation?I speke the kweens inglish!!It has bin a very longg daiy and i have bin gowin four sixteen howrs __________________ http://lintonsview.blogspot.com/

01-28-06, 07:38 PM	#36
Linton Sea Lord Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,898 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	So is it??? __________________ http://lintonsview.blogspot.com/

03-05-06, 08:39 AM	#37
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,090 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 7	tactic books blind mans bluff ive been refferd to is it any good? __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

03-05-06, 04:19 PM	#39
Linton Sea Lord Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,898 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Tactics I would start with Submarine Command by Ben Bryant.I believe it was required reading on the perisher course in the 1970s.I would also read a lot of the wartime (ww2) books by people such as Mars,Young etc.The basic techniques are always the same.Technology just gives you a better chance of hitting something and avoiding the counter -attack.This only really sunk (!) in with me when I went on three submarines from different eras and realised that apart from the propulsion system that they are not really different.It is the captain and luck that make the difference.I once asked an air-traffic controller at a major UK airport if they had a tactics manual.His reply was no-he just made it up on the day with the benefit of his experience.Submarine combat is the same You will not find much on Nato tactics but you can try Milan Vego's book on Soviet Naval Tactics.Finally just get all the regular forum posters to pm you with their favourite tactic and you are probably onto a winner and pm me the final result!! __________________ http://lintonsview.blogspot.com/

03-06-06, 02:03 PM	#40
kschang Watch Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 26 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Sub combat really haven't changed much. Subs go faster, dive deeper, sonars are better, and weapons are a wee bit smarter, but that's about it. Fundamentals like surprise, end-run, ambush, and keep a reserve for snapshot stuff are still around. Sprint-and-drift is very similar to land force's overwatch/leapfrong advance (in a way). The fundamentals don't change much.

03-12-06, 05:32 AM	#42
Linton Sea Lord Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,898 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Koopman's Searching and screening.I am not familiar with this one ,can you give me some details? __________________ http://lintonsview.blogspot.com/

03-14-06, 07:45 AM	#44
Linton Sea Lord Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,898 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I found it on abebooks at a starting price of $150!!Does anybody know if it is available in cyberspace or can photocopy or scan a copy for me? __________________ http://lintonsview.blogspot.com/

03-14-06, 08:17 AM	#45
Bill Nichols Master of Defense Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,502 Downloads: 125 Uploads: 0	The theory of optimal search was first developed by B.O. Koopman, Search and Screening. A simplified and very accessible text The Theory of Search by Jack Frost is available in Microsoft Word format from Martin Colwell's SAR library. That work explains primarily maritime search planning. Frost's articles (and many other search-related items) are available at: http://www.sarinfo.bc.ca/Library/Pla...bPlanning.html Enjoy! __________________ My Dangerous Waters website: