Did Japanese midget submarines sink the Arizona?

[soopaman2]

There is a show that is a few years old on the History and Military channel called "Unsolved History" that went into this in depth.

They made a compelling case that 3 midget subs were deployed that day.

One of them sunk by the USS Ward, which was (un)officially the first shots fired by the USA in WW2.

I wonder if it is the same show?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Regarding powder storage:

I hope I didn't give the impression I was disagreeing. My only point there was that I had never heard that. Conjecture or not, it's just as plausible as the bomb penetrating to the magazine. So many things we would love to know and never will.

[CaptainHaplo]

Steve - not at all. Since you said you had not heard it, I simply wanted to provide a source where I had so you could consider it more than just me saying so. From what I understand from some of the writings, the divers indicate that there is no sign that the magazine was compromised from outside before the explosion.

I do think we will never know for sure - anyone close enough to tell us perished in the concussion or aftermath.

[Cybermat47]

Blimey. Took me a long time to watch it

Anyway, it turns out that midget sub No.5 managed to get into Pearl Harbour and fired it's torpedoes at either the Arizona or the Oklahoma and West Virginia. One of its torpedoes was a dud, and was recovered by the US navy not long after (If it discharged both torpedoes at the Arizona, both were duds or one missed). The submarine sent out a signal (it attacked on the surface) to it's mother sub. The signal, Kira, is believed to be a misspelling of Tora, due to the stress of operating a midget sub. The sub quickly escaped to west loch, were it's crew detonated scuttling charges, blowing the sub in two and killing themselves. It remained there until the west loch disaster of 1943, when it was gathered with the sunken US LCTs, cut into three, and dumped outside the harbour.

Here's more information on the west loch disaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Loch_disaster

Soon I'll post a photo of what may be midget sub No.5 firing at battleship row, unwittingly taken by a Japanese airman.

[Cybermat47]

Here's the photo:



Those plumes behind the sub are 'rooster tails' caused by the destabilization of the sub after the torpedoes were launched.

[Sailor Steve]

Where's your evidence? That's a blowup of the picture Bilge Rat posted, and the plumes are most likely caused by air-dropped torpedoes hitting the water. Also, you don't need the close-up. The plumes are clearly visible in the full picture, and have been for seventy-one years.

[Cybermat47]

Yes, but take a look at what's in front of the plumes. It's faint, but obviously a floating tube with an upward extension in the middle, similar to a conning tower. Also, air dropped torpedoes don't splash in that way. When an airborne torpedo hits, the splash is in the same general direction that the torpedo is heading, while these are going upwards.

[Takeda Shingen]

With that kind of resolution, I think it is hard to say that it is obviously anything. It could be a periscope. It could be nothing at all. It could be Godzilla.

[Cybermat47]

^^^^^

Fair enough. I'll look for a higher-resolution picture.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Also, air dropped torpedoes don't splash in that way. When an airborne torpedo hits, the splash is in the same general direction that the torpedo is heading, while these are going upwards.

2:48, and again at 2:56, 3:18 and 3:40.


0:56 and 1:03. In the second one notice the torpedo strap hitting the water ahead of the fish itself. That may be what you're seeing as a "tube" in the PH photo. In all the videos the splash is vertical.

[Cybermat47]

Here's an article on the find: http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-a...,6991792.story

And here's the video itself: http://xfinitytv.comcast.net/watch/N...-Harbor/videos

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Where's your evidence? That's a blowup of the picture Bilge Rat posted, and the plumes are most likely caused by air-dropped torpedoes hitting the water. Also, you don't need the close-up. The plumes are clearly visible in the full picture, and have been for seventy-one years.

Also, did you actually read my post before that photo? Because that's the main proof, not a blown up picture.

And if the plumes were caused by planes, where are the planes?

[Cybermat47]

Here's the official website with information regarding the boat: http://i-16tou.com/

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Also, did you actually read my post before that photo? Because that's the main proof, not a blown up picture.

Your post was edited three hours after my reply. What did it say before? I believe there was something about a submarine broaching after firing its torpedoes, which as far as I know doesn't make a plume of spray similar to that of a torpedo striking the water.

And if the plumes were caused by planes, where are the planes?

Lost against the background clutter of the docks? Climbed up out of the picture? Ultimately irrelevant. What I challenged was your statement that the plumes were vertical and that real torpedo plumes aren't. I showed that they are.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there wasn't a midget sub inside the harbor. For all I know there was. I'm just saying that picture doesn't show anything like that, or anything at all, really. People who want to believe things put up all kinds of "proof", and it's usually no clearer than that picture is.

[Cybermat47]

^^^^

Just read what's in the last link I put. All my crappy evidence will fade into insignifigance compared to the meticulous studies of the ex-submariner who led the team that discovered the evidence.