Failing to install Mint 18.2

[BarracudaUAK]

Sorry I'm late to the game here, been busy with RL....


UEFI could be causing all of the grief here.
Since I'm not familiar with your Notebook, just a few things I would check.

In the Bios on my Gigabyte mother board, I can set (most of them individually) each "part" (usb, etc.) to be either "Legacy" or "UEFI".

If I turn UEFI "off", but leave something such as usb set to "UEFI only", then I won't have my usb until I turn it to "Legacy", or one of the "either/or" settings. (UEFI/Legacy, or Legacy/UEFI, sets the 'primary'.)


IF UEFI is on, and the boot UEFI "key" (in the OS) isn't correct, it will "break" on boot.

Can you install 17.2 and do a "system upgrade" to 18.2?

I don't mean use the "software updater" program.

The program for Fedora that allows me to upgrade from, for example, F25 to F26 is command line only. As it is a rather long and drawn-out process. (The upgrade, not typing the command.)


This may be the way the Manufacturer did it. Installed 17, then upgraded it after install to 18.

I've done it before when Fedora had issues recognizing my RAID in a previous version.


I'll see if I can find any info on MINT 18.2 having issues with UEFI.

Lastly, hardware issues will show up in MANY ways that don't appear to be hardware.
I'm not saying it is the hardware, but I've been in the same situation.
ALL the evidence pointed at something else. Which is exactly why I started swapping parts.

Barracuda


EDIT: Bit short on time here, but I did find this after a quick search....

https://unix.stackexchange.com/quest...-amd64-package

I thought I would post it here just in case you did run across a similar error during your attempts.
I'll keep looking later when I have a bit more time.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by BarracudaUAK

Sorry I'm late to the game here, been busy with RL....


UEFI could be causing all of the grief here.
Since I'm not familiar with your Notebook, just a few things I would check.

In the Bios on my Gigabyte mother board, I can set (most of them individually) each "part" (usb, etc.) to be either "Legacy" or "UEFI".

If I turn UEFI "off", but leave something such as usb set to "UEFI only", then I won't have my usb until I turn it to "Legacy", or one of the "either/or" settings. (UEFI/Legacy, or Legacy/UEFI, sets the 'primary'.)


IF UEFI is on, and the boot UEFI "key" (in the OS) isn't correct, it will "break" on boot.

Can you install 17.2 and do a "system upgrade" to 18.2?

I don't mean use the "software updater" program.

The program for Fedora that allows me to upgrade from, for example, F25 to F26 is command line only. As it is a rather long and drawn-out process. (The upgrade, not typing the command.)


This may be the way the Manufacturer did it. Installed 17, then upgraded it after install to 18.

I've done it before when Fedora had issues recognizing my RAID in a previous version.


I'll see if I can find any info on MINT 18.2 having issues with UEFI.

Lastly, hardware issues will show up in MANY ways that don't appear to be hardware.
I'm not saying it is the hardware, but I've been in the same situation.
ALL the evidence pointed at something else. Which is exactly why I started swapping parts.

Barracuda


EDIT: Bit short on time here, but I did find this after a quick search....

https://unix.stackexchange.com/quest...-amd64-package

I thought I would post it here just in case you did run across a similar error during your attempts.
I'll keep looking later when I have a bit more time.

I think the hardware does not get recognised correctly, it probbaly is alright (no broken matter), but configruation is messed up on a level maybe below UEFI.

One day later I managed to play around in the UEFI by just trying random option settings, until one combination allowed installation of 17.2, and upgrading to 17.3, also suddenly the drives were listed in the UEFI again wher ebefore they were not . However, the nVidia graphics board does not get recognised, I am on intel graphics and software rendering mode 800x600. Switching to nVidia driver sends the noteobook into recovery mode next time it gets booted. Also, the touch pad does not work, cannot be activated.

Mint does not allow - as far as I know - to upgrade form 17 to 18 on the fly. I think that was cnaged from 18 on, but not 17. I am on 17.3, and cannot get 18 installed. The boot media still do not succeeed in ionstallation - maybe because the installaon runs into configuration problems and cannot access some hardware - the graphics board for example.

I was found by some bad personal news this week, then the notebook anger, and the main PC I use (dual boot) also starts to shake and became instable. I am currently in wait-and-do-nothing mode, I am exhausted a bit, and frustrated, and a bit locked in place. Lousy week this is. One day when my batteries have recharged a bit again, I probably give the notebook into repair at some locla shop, I do not want it to travel back and forth via mail to benefit from the warranty, the telephone talk I had with them did not give me the impression they understood what I described, and the ASUS support I tried was a lesson that I will keep on mind and take as an argument to never buy something of Asus again. It really is all coming together down on me this week. And its like I always said: Linux is nice as long as it just runs fine and you do not need to go deeper beyond the surface the normal average3 software user skims on. But once problems arise, and you are no well-versed Linux insider, you are lost and forsaken by the heavens. There must be a reason why Linux fails to reach the private user market almost completely - since 20 years. I predict this will not be any different in another 10, 15, 20 years. And although Microsoft lost customers in the past 2 years - it was not Linux collecting these migrants, they went elsewhere instead. Linux market shares shrunk during these two years, from I think around 1.8 or even 1.9, to 1.4 now. Also, look at where Linux is dominant, or major player: that is server farms for example. Companies., on server farms it can have markets have shares varying between 40 and 70% or so. All these have in common that they are maintained by professional experts, people who know Linux for their profession. The private user market seems to be b almost non-existent.

Add to all this the outlook of that maybe W7 cannot be installed on new hardware as well, I have seen more and more reports of people being blocked form that no matter which clever tricks they tried. Then I looks W7 as the only basis I really do know well as well - being faced with W10 then, where my W7 knowledge now is of as much use as under Linux.

Really, I currently have enough of it all so very much.

I'm really grumpy these days. And all this mess only because I wanted to create a Linux Live stick. Have done that several times under Windows, never a problem. First time done under Linux, and an atom bomb goes off.

My specs, btw:
Asus N752VX, i7-6700HQ, 12GB, intel HD530, nVidia GTX950M, SSD 256GB, HD 1TB

[Skybird]

SALUTAT VICTOR !

This was a hard and long fight, and I cannot say to have won it all by myself, but random chance and luck helped me out - in the form of a group of students of the local university's medical department, outside the building for statistical data processing. I ran into them yesterday morning while stopping on my bicycle at a red traffic light, and overheard a conversation of four students, discussing the pro and con of Linux on the university'S computer network. I grinned wide on some problems mentioned, since they mirrored my own problems. It was about installation issues they have had for some database stuff, and that Linux is vulnerable to installation issues - an argument two guys made and the other two vehemently objecting.

Thy saw me grinning (somewhat bitterly grinning,I asuppose), and eye contact lead to a humours greeting and words flying back and forth, and I took the opportunity and reported my issues of not being able to istall Linux ISO, from stick or DVD, in normal or compatability mode.

These guys decided to become serious on the matter and turned out becoming truly helpful, and yesterday and today we traded emails on our varying results with downloading several ISOs of 18.0 and 18.2, and trying to install them on four different systems. If I counted it right, we had three different sources, 4 different burning devices and four different systems: 3 PCs and my notebook.

The results of trying to install from these DVDs - one dozen! - is not really a compliment for the reliability of Linux Mint 18. All DVDs refused to boot into Linux Live mode when choosing the option for normal boot. 9 of 12 DVDs refused to boot into Linux Live when booting via the compatability mode option.

My problem of the past ten days? I happen to have none of the winning discs. One guy gave me his burned 18.2 disc, and from this I could finally boot into Linux Live and then reinstall my notebook from scratch. No brokenb hardware at all there, it all works. I also found that the shop did no good job on default configuration, the second drive now is recognised (mounted) by default, some months ago it gave me a fight for getting it mounted and accessible.

The system works smooth now, tomorrow I will do some options tuning and shuffling back some data from the backup sticks.

What is to be learned from this: it is often said, and even is written in my now two books on Linux Mint, that usually installation in normal boot mode would work, and compatability mode only is occasionally needed to secure booting. My troubles of the past ten days or so need to conclude this: you must ALWAYS boot in compatability mode, and even then you run a lottery regarding the disc you use, the source you downloaded from, the burner, the system you boot on.

And this: although we all tried, nobody of us was able to get any USB stick working for booting into Live installation, on any system, with different processors. Not 18.0. Not 18.2.

The combination of used ISO, Mint version (kernel!), and processors, are underestimate din importance, I would say. That is no explanation, I lack the knowledge to explain what happened in the past days, and my long days of failure. I just report the observed empirical facts.

Also noticable from my own observation: 17.2 installs flawlessly, in normal and compatability mode.

I think Mint 18 has some serious issue there.

The good news is: this battle is over, and it was finally won.

The bad news is: my main PC is breaking down, I ice it since two weeks, it becomes instable and sometimes just switches itself off. I tried some days ago to install W7 on the Skylake notebook I use (back then it was Linux-broken), and finally seemed to manage it after having formed a bootable stick with W7 and SP1 and via tool added USB3 support to it, so that it can boot through the various setup screens. However, installation failed, I got no working W7 installation. It seems my plan to use W7 also on newer hardware once I need to replace my game system, is nill and void. I know have the choice between becoming a Spartan ( using only AC on console, and nothing else anymore), or becoming a heretic and traitor (subjugating to W10 as game launching platform). Linux just does not cut it for simulations and gamings, although the situation has improved, but it still does not cut it: I do not want to play the stuff avalabole unde rKinux, I want to paly the stuff I want to play and which mostly is not available under Linux, or makes no sense to run in VM.

And so once again the grumpy Skybird is not happy.

Tomorrow I wll meet three of four young men in their student homes, maybe some friends of theirs and girls as well, and do a big Wok cooking session, something I am really good in. I owe them something. And its been a long while since I last time cooked in a student's kitchen. 25 years or so... All costs for meat and veggies are on me.

[BarracudaUAK]

Good to know you got it installed and working.


A corrupted download, or a "bad burn" on a DVD can ruin the install.
I've had that problem before.

It may be that MINT 18 has some issues, or it may be that the mirror was corrupt...

Starting as of Fedora 22 (?) and up to Fedora 25, the installer does not "see" my RAID "drives". They show up, but are shown as "0 bytes".

It takes a bit of maneuvering but I can get them to be "seen" properly for install.

The Devs are aware, and I've been tracking the bug report since I installed F23. (25 now.)

Some times they do take a step back...


---
Booting into Safe/Compatability mode...

I've had to do that on most of my Fedora installs simply because I've usually got a video card within 3 generations of "new".

For example, when I built this FX-8350, I had (2) R7-370X. R9 380/R9 390 was the "Top" card. So I had, what I refer to as a "mid-grade front-line" Card.
I.e. the "new" but not the "best" version.

Now I'm running a R9 380. AMD has released the RX 400 series, the RX 500 series (a revision of the 400s), and most recently the RX Vega.
So I'm now "3 generations" "behind".

Only in the last few years with AMDs big push for Linux open-source drivers, has this changed.

When I installed Fedora 25 most recently to reconfigure my RAID 0, to a RAID 10, I did not have to use "compatability mode" because the drivers were there. And they worked.

Compatibility Mode simply switches to "VESA" mode.
VESA is a 486 era standard. But newer cards understand it, and it is considered a "software rendering mode" which is why it "works".

Just in case you are not familiar with VESA...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_...ds_Association

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_Local_Bus


Sorry this is a bit all over the place, I'm doing laundry as I type this...

-----

As Far as your games not running on Linux... not everything does, right now.
But if something doesn't work, and I can't get it to work, I give it time.

As it stands, most of the games that would not work on Linux about 3 years ago, didn't work on WIndows XP either. Now many of them do.

I'm closer to running EVERYTHING that I have, than I have been in years.

As a percentage of games that I have, I'm running a greater percentage than I have been since I switched from Win98 to WinXp.

So all I can suggest is, in order of least complexity:

1: Give it time.
2: Try using "Winetricks" to install what the game needs to work. i.e. Dotnetfx, DirectX, etc.
3: If the Wine you have access to is "too old" to run the program, try enabling a "testing" repo.
4: Try a a bit more "cutting edge" distro.
For example: RHEL, Debian/Ubuntu and (I think) MINT usually have "stable" versions.
That takes a year to "update" to all of the new stuff. New stable versions release every year.
WINEHQ releases a new "Testing/Staging" version every 2 weeks.
Fedora is usually 1-2 weeks behind the release on WINEHQ.
Simply because, most of the time, it is "tested" by Fedrora for a week before it is put in the update repo.
ARCH rolls even faster than Fedora.


Again, all easy compared to what you have just done to get your OS running again!
---
And lastly, you have just succeeded with your most recent post, of doing what most computer (and Linux) users do.

You had a problem, you looked for a solution. You found info and help in an unlikely area, and you then proceeded to troubleshoot -with other users- until you found the solution.

The difference? You did it in a new environment. You are getting there Skybird.
It just takes time to "shift-gears" mentally.

You have just gone through one of many. "It doesn't boot", next is "It won't run game XYZ with WINE"...

I'm Sure there will be more.
(And I need to get MINT on a VM so I'll be able to be more help if you ask those questions here!)

Do you remember the first question you had about your DOS/Windows PC???

I forget what mine was, I think it was how do I make a boot disk...? 3.5" floppy era.
Hmm, Maybe that is the safest way to store my data? Nobody can get to it!!!



Barrauda

[Skybird]

The stunning thing is how many of those DVDs failed to install. We downloaded on four different machines with 4 different burners and CPUs in four different places and all the b urning done by four different people, and two versions of 18 were done - and all DVDs failed in normal mode and three quarters failed in compatability mode.

Thats is more than just a curious singular event. Its a pattern.

On games under Linux, some unexpected titles like ArmA 3 and Subnautica, are running under Linux, but then most of the games I play and that really consume my time, are simulators like Assetto Corsa or Steel Beasts or FSX with many and complex addons, and many of these thigns need special hardware (wheels, pedals, HOTAS) and drivers. That alltogether is no ground Linux can present as its shinign side. Its not for that. And driver support for such hardware is a mess, I learned. These programs also are so demanding on hardware that keeping all that - and controllers and drivers - in a VM, is not working well, if at all.

Chess also is a sad sight under Linux. There are chess programs, yes. But none that compares to the interfaces and capabilties of Arena GUI, Fritz GUI or Chessbase database, not to mention the many top engines you have under Windows and Android.

Yes, Android is better equipped with chess software, than Linux. Its surprising a bit, at least for me it was.

And then there is VR. I am tempted to try AC and RR in VR. In my AC forum they all say its a blast in VR.

Boy, all that poor money of mine. I would treat it so badly if I really go that way...

[BarracudaUAK]

AC and RR?

I know of a few games with those "initials"... you'll have to expand a bit on that so I know exactly which you are talking about.


I did some digging for joysticks that are supported, and I came across several that are having trouble.

However there was one bright spot.
It seems Kernels newer than 4.10 have better joystick support. I'm not sure which kernel you are running, but you might check it out.


I know that Ubuntu LTS was running 4.4, and that the Ubuntu team was simply "back-porting" security fixes rather than updating the LTS to a newer kernel...


As far as my Fedora install is concerned...
Since I currently have a 4GB boot partition (which is beyond "overkill") I set "dnf" (the update program) to keep ~20 (I think) kernels at a time. Instead of the standard 3.
I've got kernels all the way back to the default 4.8.6, so If at any point something goes wrong, I can always go back to a previous kernel.
I used this when SH4 started flickering a few months ago. I was able to confirm that it wasn't exclusively WINE that was causing the issue.

So here I sit with a boot screen full of kernels... and no pop-corn.

If you have time one of these days, you should try one of the Live-DVDs for Fedora, and see if it recognizes your Joysticks, etc.
It might surprise you.

And yes, you can get Cinnamon Desktop on Fedora too.

Barracuda

[Skybird]

AC = Assetto Corsa
RR = Raceroom

I do not use just any ordinary joystick or wheel. Fanatec stuff is quite the creme de la creme on the public consumer market. There is more expeisnve stuff, but then you talk several thousand coins. These need their own dedicated drivers. fanatec does not provide linux drivers. FFB under Linux by many sim drivers is said to be lousy to nonexistent anyway.

Then there is CH manager software for CH joysticks, throttles etc. Not for Linux.

You see, I do not want to play something I am not interested in just becasue that is what is avialable under Linux. I want to run that stuff I am really interested in. Only very few games at Steam which I bought, have Linux support. And none of them I play too often. Subnautica. ArmA3. Rarely Tennis Ellbow 2013.

Assetto corsa pushes the CPU to the limits. Raceroom will benefit from beefier hardware as well once they mplemented the planned new graphics engine in two or three years. On a weaker notebook than my main PC, with weaker graphics card and then under Linux in a VM, and with no FFB support for my Fanatec cockpit - forget it. Playstation 4 is th eonly altwernqative there, the wheels and pedals I picked are compatible.

Its not just some random opportunistic joystick choice of mine, Barracuda. Its stuff costing as much as a whole computer. There are games at Steam that run under steam OS and Linux, and its becoming more, i know. But that usually are not to the kind of games I am interested in.

And then, after all: I know Windows 7 quite well now. Under Linux, I am still a newbie, just a user wnating to switch stuff on and stuff then is running. I cannot need problems under Linux that I could solve under Windows. Because under Linux, I cannot. Thats the reason why I planned since two years to either keep a gmae Wndows PC and a Linux station for evertyhign else, or replace the PC with a console, loosing 90% of my gaming. But I feel i do not want to give that up so easily.

And then there is VR. Assetto Corsa in VR. Hehehe.

If going for a new system, its better to spend a little more and have no regrets one years later already, than to save some money, and hitting the limits already after this one year. I would make it dual boot again.

[BarracudaUAK]

I completely forgot to mention in my previous post...

If all the the DVDs were burned from ISOs downloaded from the same mirror, that could cause all the bad installs... As they would all have the same corruption....


---



I just tried my Saitek X52, and Linux can "See" it and even list exactly what it is...

So the Fanatec, and CH drivers may very well get there soon.
I can't say for sure, as I'm not sure which kernel you are running.
Although I did a quick search and it appears that MINT 18.2 has kernel 4.8 by default, and 4.10 as an update.

By comparison, I'm running 4.12. and have been on 4.11 for a few months now. 4.13 is currently a "release candidate". And it takes an average of 2 months for a new kernel.
Fedora 25 was released with 4.8.6, November of 2016. That means there are about 10 months worth of "new stuff" available (6 at the least, if you go with the 4.10 kernel).
So your kernel may be as much as 10 months "behind".

I'm not saying it *WILL* work, but many times some here have mentioned a difficulty with running a certain program...
For example, RR mentioned in a (much) older post that a program, S3D I think, didn't work in WINE.
But I had been running it since I installed Fedora 20 in Oct. 2014. Over a year at that point.

*THEN* he mentioned that he was running WINE 1.6. And Suddenly it made sense.
I was running WINE 1.7.30-44 on that PC.

So somewhere between 1.6 Stable (which was 1.5 development) and 1.7dev something was added (or fixed) that enabled it to work.

That may very well be the difference in what works for you and what works for me.
I'm running much newer kernels and WINE versions.

To clarify, I'm not trying to tell you "It works" when it actually doesn't.
I'm simply saying that *MANY* of the games that I've tried work for me as of wine 2.13 (current development/staging/testing series).
(Only 2 of the games I've tried recently don't work for me, Space Engineers, and Fallout 4. But, I haven't tried Space Engineers in a few months.)

The advantages of an LTS is just that, a Long Time between needing to upgrade.
But at the same time, it's a long time between new "features", because sometimes those "features" can/might cause regressions and bugs. Nobody's perfect, after all.

I'm sure that somewhere, there is a programmer with Fanatec hardware, tirelessly coding drivers, possibly without help from Fanatec.
However, if he has to buy each one before working on the drivers, that could take a while!

Also, Fanatec may not even be aware that there are Fanatec users that run Linux and want to use their controllers in Linux... (I didn't do any checking on this point. Just something I thought about.)

As for the CH control/remapping software... IF it runs under WINE, then all you need is Linux to "see" the controller, and then run the program through WINE.
WINE will "fake" all the Windows input for the CH Manager "remapping" functions.

WINE could then run the program "on startup" (wineboot), and all games run after that, would get the benefit of the CH Manager.

If the game was a Linux native program, then this wouldn't work. As it would look straight at the joystick drivers for input.
However this isn't necessarily a problem, Linux and Windows handle joysticks differently.


For the Saitek X-45 (possibly others), according to a forum post I read over a decade ago... Saitek set the "HAT" switches to be an "axis".
Linux followed this and viewed them as an "axis". Windows viewed them as a "button".
I think this continued on the X-52... On more than one occasion, when I didn't have the Saitek software installed,
Windows XP would show that I had a 4 axis joystick, with 50+ buttons.
When it actually has 8 Axis, 3 HAT switches, and 17 buttons.
Linux Shows 11 axis currently...

Anyway, you might check and see what is the newest kernel you can run.
That may open a few doors that have been closed so far...

Barracuda

[Skybird]

Thanks for all that input, Barracuda, but you overestimate my Linuxarian skills. I do not touch level 4 and level 5 ugrades and changes because they root too deep into the system and I have no clue how to repair something when it breaks. Stability and safety first, Linux is no playground for me. I only want it to run stable and safe, and provide me with a protected environment from which to browse, email, write texts, edit photography, and rarely do some shopping or banking stuff. This has absolute priority. Kernels I do not manually touch as long as a Mint version upgrade does not do it by itself.

As I described, the ISO came from several different sources, and all these sources were tried by severla different systems, and people, so we had for exmaple 18.0 from source A done by person A, then person B on his system, then person C on his, they tried them amongst themselves later and swapped disks, and I tried them as well, on my device.

Think of it. The result really is a punch in Mint 18's face. In most cases it did not work for anyone of us. My problems, stealign my breah for ten days, result from this inherent unreliability. I tried several ways to install, several versions, DVD as well as stick. When you have five, six different ISO tried and none works, you do no longer think that the problem might be hidden there, and go searching elsewhere.

BTW, the cooking party has been cancelled, I got a call. Maybe this guy twice as old as they are started to beocme eerie for them. When I offered that as a way to say thanks, I was surprised anyway that they accepted the idea, it was not really meant too serious by me. There is semester break holidays over here, and it is Friday night, think young guys have better things to do then. Its okay. Hm, a relief even, maybe. But it was a curious event, a curious way to meet, and they really were extreemely helpful. I keep a pleasant memory.