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Old 11-01-2007, 05:26 AM   #16
Siara
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Im having trouble finding good , clear pictures of the subs saddle tanks. Revell kit is simplyfied in this area and the surfaces are to straight , while the real boats had some dents and tin ripple to the tanks. Problem is i can not locate reference picture regarding internal ribing of the tanks. If someone has picture or drawing of that part of U-boat it will be highly apreciated.
Another aspect is the vents that are located on upper surface of the saddle tanks.
Again , the pictures i have are not conclusive , and most of the fotos are of the boats submerged wchich is of no help.

Thanks in advance.

TBC...
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Old 11-01-2007, 11:35 AM   #17
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I've included some pictures below, but...

It will help you to understand what it goes like if you know a little bit about how they built the Type VII. It was built out of circular steel sections which were welded together, the middle two were purely cylindrical, but those which tapered to the bow and stern were basically conical. All of these were solid tubes which then had holes pierced in them where necessary, such as for the torpedo tubes, hatches and access to the conning tower, this formed the pressure hull. When the pressure hull was in one piece, the hole for the conning tower would be cut and thus things could be lowered inside to build the interior. While this was going on, the outer hull could be added.

The outer hull was basically streamlined plating added fore and aft, with a deck along the top, supported by steel ribs which were welded to the pressure hull, the ribs typically being 60 centimetres apart, the outer hull was pierced with the free-flooding holes but where it met the saddle tanks, it was supported on rib stanchions thus leaving a gap between the outer hull plating and the top of the saddle tanks, and you can see these supporting ribs on a picture I have attached. Only on the underside in the centre section was the pressure hull used to form part of the exterior shape (underneath).

So what you basically have is a big long cigar shape, with the outer hull sitting on top of it, with a big gap in between along the top so that things like external stowage, retractable bollards the anchor winch motor etc etc have somewhere to go. Sort of a bit like a 'sprung floor'. This gap being the reason for the many lift-up hatches along the deck, to allow access to various bits and pieces, although some of these access hatches were only intended to be used for dockyard servicing. The deck, incidentally, was covered with wooden planking so that it would not ice up so quickly as steel, and because it was simpler to leave a 1 centimetre gap between the planks so that it would assist in dive flooding, than it was to make something of that nature in steel.







Hope this helps. I've got plenty more reference if you need it, so just shout out if you'd like to see more.

Chock
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Old 11-01-2007, 02:43 PM   #18
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Thank you for the superb answer Chock. Very important info there , but what im having problem with is the internal ribbing of the tanks. I understand how U-boat was build - regarding structure of the hull. I know there were ribs / cylindrical shaped steel rings , that were covered on outside with sheet of steel. The tanks i understand were added / welded / to the main body of the boat , with some sort of support underneath. These were the ribs of the tank. Problem is i do not know how many ribs were there per tank , and what was the spacing of them looking from the side.
I gather the welds on the tank do not represent the actual spacing , as it looks to far apart.
What i was trying to do is to shape the tanks / similar to what i done with the main body of the hull / simulating indents and accidents during u-boats life.
For that to achieve i need some reference regarding those ribs.
Picture below shows model of Wink Grisé where you can see the shadow of the ribs.


Hope you can help Chock.

TBC...
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Old 11-01-2007, 02:55 PM   #19
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Currently scanning some pics, check back in ten mins!

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Old 11-01-2007, 03:20 PM   #20
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RGR
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Old 11-01-2007, 03:26 PM   #21
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Okay, the pictures are of Otto Kretschmer's U-99 (VIIB) at drydock in Lorient in late 1940, so you'll need to use them as a guide rather than gospel for a VIIC, the main external visual difference between the VIIB and C being altered positioning of the external ventillation ducting, so it should serve as a good guide, technically, the tanks were different on the two, with an additional small buoyancy tank added to the main tank array, but externally things looked no different on the tanks. The schematics were tricky to scan, as they were on a tightly folded page, although you can determine many rib positions from them all the same. There is good reference for rippling detail on the last picture, which I can get to you at a higher resolution if you need it.











Try not to get glue on the carpet:rotfl:

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Old 11-01-2007, 03:47 PM   #22
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Top notch!

Some say the picture is worth 1000 words...


Exactly what i was looking for Chock. Now guided by the rivets on the model i can pinpoint the ribs on the tanks.

Solved.

TBC...
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Old 11-02-2007, 02:52 PM   #23
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Got to love this community for this kind of information (almost) on demand. Absolutely priceless.
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Old 11-03-2007, 07:16 AM   #24
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Default Revell VIIc

Hi all,

Siara, i'm roughly at same stage you are in my build. I'm doing U-69.
I'm also trying to depict the oil-canning effect on the hull side's in the same manner that you are. Thanks go out to Chock for photo's of U-99 as this effect on this area is somewhat different from what i was led to believe!

I have a question. I found a line drawing on the net of U-570, on this drawing there appears to be some sort of bracing wire(?) on the trailing side of the forward dive planes. This is also evident on the prop models of U-96 in Das Boot. But, since seeing pic's that Chock posted of u-99 these 'wires' are no where to be seen:hmm:
Can anbody shed any light on this tiny but obvious (If missing) detail.

Thanks

Sav.
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Old 11-03-2007, 08:51 AM   #25
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That would be these things:







I think they are actually on that other picture, they are probably masked because of the angle of the shot, as they do not go straight back, but are angled upwards slightly as they go to the rear, as evident on the drawings, the larger of which ought to assist you in placing in relation to the panelling line.

UT and GHG (marked on the photograph), pinpoint the locations of the Underwasser Telegraphie, and the Gruppenhorrchgerat. These being the underwater telephone systems for intercommuniction between U-Boats (also sometimes known as Gertrude). GHG is the 'Group Listening System'. Early boats had an array of eleven sensors, later ones had 24, which is the case in that picture.

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of the wire was, but it seems logical to asume it is something to do with the GHG, since the wire, if it goes along the inside of the fixed forward part of the bow plane, would terminate near the GHG sensors, and it does appear to have electrical insulators on it near the hull. Of course it could also be to prevent the tip of the plane fluttering during reversing, but how effective a single wire, as opposed to a pair, would be, is hard to say. If one equates it to the bracing on a biplane wing, then I'd imagine two wires would be more effective. I do know that the part of the dive plane which the wire is fixed to was a fairly substantial structure on U-Boats, because if you look at U-534 (the Type IX in Liverpool), that is the only part which remains, the rest having either broken off or (more likely) corroded away.

The wire (whatever its purpose was) can certainly be found on drawings of all marks of Type VII subs, although it often doesn't show up on them, so I'm guessing it was a standard feature.

Chock
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Old 11-03-2007, 10:40 AM   #26
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Nice one Chock!

Bloody Hell Chock,

You are now my new best mate

This is my first forray into Naval modelling for many year's, i'm an avid aircraft fan.
This means that nearly all my ref material is of the flying kind, so finding decent pic's for this project has been mostly web based.
I'm currently waiting on the Bass wood deck's from Nautilus so things have slowed somewhat in my build. The upside of this is that i am forced to slog on with scraping of the hull sides to get the oil-canning effect. Again thanks to your pic's this can be done in a more accurate manner. As for the 'wires' i could not have asked for better, a BIG Thank you agian

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Old 11-03-2007, 02:08 PM   #27
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No probs, shout up if you need anything else. Whatever the hell those wires actually do, as long as you put them on your model in the right place, then I guess it will be correct even if we don't know what the hell their purpose is:rotfl:

I'd recommend using a .008 guitar string for them (the top E string for an electric guitar), secured into a hole drilled with a pin drill by smearing the end with superglue before you feed it in. Should cost you about 50p from a music shop, as they usually have loose ones in rummage bins. It would be around the correct thickness, and it takes paint okay too. I've used that for bracing wires on biplane models before, and it is just rigid enough to make feeding it into holes easy. A blob of glue on the wire in the right place, painted the same pale green as the tarnish you get on metal such as copper roofs is a good lookalike for the ceramic insulators (assuming thats what they are, and not turnbuckles).

And don't get glue on the carpet:rotfl:

Chock
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:21 PM   #28
Siara
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Nice one Chock.
Savvy-good luck with your project.

Im still at the stage of adding more realistic look to the hull.
As you can see on the picture the indents are done along with some damage due to poor parking .



TBC...
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:52 AM   #29
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Completed drilling the 3 missing holes at the end of saddle tanks.



TBC...
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Old 11-05-2007, 09:22 AM   #30
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Mr postman delivered first part of my photo-etched sets. It took post office 3 weeks to deliver it , but at last i got them.
Im realy impressed by Eduard P/E. If they added any more detail to it , one could not see the diference-its that delicate.



Still awaiting the P/E from White Ensign , along with Shatton metal gun barrels.

TBC...
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