[WIP] UK Subs (Part of PRS Mod)

[Ramius]

Updated main post with Papa and Ametist (SS-N-7) missile.

[ChaosphereIX]

I love this mod, and great work Ramius...but I am trying to do a "historical" Trafalgar campaign in 84 with HMS Trafalgar armed with Tigerfish and Harpoons, and it dawned on me...could an ex Brit sailor chime in here?....

How the hell did you put up with the Tigerfish torpedo? It is complete crap in the 84 campaign, and you used it until the early 2000s. With a top speed of 35knots, it is easily outrun by many warships, and that is not even getting to it's supposed unreliability.

As I understand it, Churchill, Swiftsure, and especially Trafalgar were/are fantastic boats with good speed, good dive, good sensors and very quiet...but they are given a floppy noodle to actually fight with.

Why the hell did the RN not replace the Tigerfish decades before it became obsolescent? How did sub skippers not revolt, saying "If the war goes hot, and I have to sink some Victors, Oscars, Alfas, or any surface ship that goes 30 knots or higher...I am screwed."

[The Bandit]

Originally Posted by ChaosphereIX

I love this mod, and great work Ramius...but I am trying to do a "historical" Trafalgar campaign in 84 with HMS Trafalgar armed with Tigerfish and Harpoons, and it dawned on me...could an ex Brit sailor chime in here?....

How the hell did you put up with the Tigerfish torpedo? It is complete crap in the 84 campaign, and you used it until the early 2000s. With a top speed of 35knots, it is easily outrun by many warships, and that is not even getting to it's supposed unreliability.

As I understand it, Churchill, Swiftsure, and especially Trafalgar were/are fantastic boats with good speed, good dive, good sensors and very quiet...but they are given a floppy noodle to actually fight with.

Why the hell did the RN not replace the Tigerfish decades before it became obsolescent? How did sub skippers not revolt, saying "If the war goes hot, and I have to sink some Victors, Oscars, Alfas, or any surface ship that goes 30 knots or higher...I am screwed."

If you use the same principals that it takes to effectively run the Mk 37 in 1968, you should be able to achieve results (close in, baffles shots) trouble is you're doing this against quieter targets with better sonar as compared to 68 tactics against Novembers. Upshot is that your Trafalgar is quiet too.

What you do have on your side though (I haven't looked at the numbers) is, from reputation, the Tigerfish was billed as the "stealth torpedo" as it was electrically powered it was pretty quiet at 35 knots and even quieter when its at pre-enable speed.

Its still going to be frustrating compared to just running wild with the Mk48, but if you try to get in close shots that they don't detect right away and can't run from until its too late, you should have a chance.

[Ramius]

Thanks, as The Bandit said it takes a complete thought change on how to use it.
Basically, forget about range and get in close and dirty

Also, the RN evaluated the Mk48 and Harpoon on Churchill, they only took up the Harpoon.

[Ramius]

Updated with :

Whiskey Long Bin
Albacore (x2 tubes added for gameplay purposes)
Udaloy II
Ropucha II
SS-N-3C
SS-N-3A

[Ramius]

Updated the Papa to now use the Charlie model, still twin props.

[ChaosphereIX]

that is awesome, great work sir

[pccl]

getting some weird visuals with damage decals, not sure if this is preventable or a hard coded limitation, but thought I'd put it here:

[Ramius]

Originally Posted by pccl

getting some weird visuals with damage decals, not sure if this is preventable or a hard coded limitation, but thought I'd put it here:

This is something we have only just come to notice. It is due to using parts from other models and as such (for some reason) it also brings their damage graphics with them.
Still trying to figure out a way to stop it or hide them.
In the mean time = don't dent the boats :p

[Ramius]

Managed to figure it out, this will be fixed with the next update...

[LTJGBeam]

If you use any components from other sub models, you have to restore the actual base modelfile for the damage to work properly. I usually just put the ModelFile=ships/xx_ssn_xxxxx/xx_ssn_xxxxx line in the file right before the //Wake definitions...

[pccl]

nice, it was getting stressful trying to hold her in one piece like some sorta fine china...

anyone else finds harpoons absolutely busted in 1968, btw? Doesn't look like many ships those days had chaffs or CIWS

[thereddaikon]

AShMs are totally broken in 1968. It's hilarious to get an Ohio SSGN, load it up to the brim with TASMs and unleash Itano style missile hell on unassuming Soviet Surface fleets.

[ChaosphereIX]

Originally Posted by pccl

nice, it was getting stressful trying to hold her in one piece like some sorta fine china...

anyone else finds harpoons absolutely busted in 1968, btw? Doesn't look like many ships those days had chaffs or CIWS

yes, you can play historical if you want. Just dont load harpoons onto your sub, as the harpoon came almost a decade later. The modders are trying to have one sub be suitable to both timelines sometimes. For example, see the UK subs that have 3 gens of torpedoes [Bidder, Tigerfish, Spearfish] available to them, as well as harpoons that they got in the early 80s. Depending on how historical you want to play, just take the loadout that suits you.

That being said, the period correct anti-ship missiles of the 68 campaign [eg Charlie I, Papa, etc.] were the reason ships developed CIWS in the late 70s. They were very vulnerable.