Help! Manual targeting with german IX2d ?

Catfish · 12-02-09, 09:21 AM

Hello,
while i got used t the TDC of stock (1.4) SH4 and even 1.5 with US subs, i wonder how to hit ANYTHING with the german IXD boat.

Its's been a while that i played SH3, and i then used Onelifecrisis' manual targeting, so i have completely forgotten how to do this in the original game - or in SH4, with a german boat.

Angle on the bow - take it the boat symbol is the target and i adjust the outer "ring" to set ownship angle? - ok.
Distance - once checked with recognition manual - ok.

BUT: Speed ?? I am used to go so near that 1 or 2 knots deviation don't bother me, but i cannot adjust it at all.

So, 2 questions:

1.
When i click on "speed" there appears that eye, and an angle with two ships at the upper ends. Ho do i measure that speed ? I need to know what to do exactly - where do i click at exactly, to start the measuring process (at the eye - at one of the ships ? do'nt i need the stop watch ?? what ???), and how do i stop again to take the measured speed ?

2.
Supposed i guess the speed, and want to enter it manually: Being at the torpedo screen I click on the manual entering button right of the speed dial, and am now able to set a certain speed manually - now how do i send it to the german TDC ? Have i again to click at the button so am not longer able to adjust anything, or let i the light burn, to use this setting ?

Because when i'm back at the periscope the speed still reads "0", regardless what i did, and the torpedo misses everytime, even at distances of less than 600 meters !

Seems i'm dumb as a brick

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

looney · 12-02-09, 09:41 AM

best bet is to use the 3minute 15sec rule.. Take bearing and range of the target every 3.15 minutes and plot it on the nav chart. The distance between points is the speed: 100m = 1 knot and 1000m is 10 knots.

The eye thingy on the notepad puzzled me also in essence it's a computer automated thingy of what your doin at the 3.15 thingy

Interpol · 12-02-09, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Hello,
while i got used t the TDC of stock (1.4) SH4 and even 1.5 with US subs, i wonder how to hit ANYTHING with the german IXD boat.

Its's been a while that i played SH3, and i then used Onelifecrisis' manual targeting, so i have completely forgotten how to do this in the original game - or in SH4, with a german boat.

Angle on the bow - take it the boat symbol is the target and i adjust the outer "ring" to set ownship angle? - ok.
Distance - once checked with recognition manual - ok.

BUT: Speed ?? I am used to go so near that 1 or 2 knots deviation don't bother me, but i cannot adjust it at all.

So, 2 questions:

1.
When i click on "speed" there appears that eye, and an angle with two ships at the upper ends. Ho do i measure that speed ? I need to know what to do exactly - where do i click at exactly, to start the measuring process (at the eye - at one of the ships ? do'nt i need the stop watch ?? what ???), and how do i stop again to take the measured speed ?

2.
Supposed i guess the speed, and want to enter it manually: Being at the torpedo screen I click on the manual entering button right of the speed dial, and am now able to set a certain speed manually - now how do i send it to the german TDC ? Have i again to click at the button so am not longer able to adjust anything, or let i the light burn, to use this setting ?

Because when i'm back at the periscope the speed still reads "0", regardless what i did, and the torpedo misses everytime, even at distances of less than 600 meters !

Seems i'm dumb as a brick

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

I only play U-boat campaign and missions as i find the US subs to be abit crappy (no offence to US Sub Fanatics

).

But anyway on the speed page with the eye & 2 ships there is a stopwatch symbol on the left handcorner of that page just left and under of the eye click that and it will estimate the speed for you. Only problem you might fight with it is that sometimes it will say it "cannot compute speed". The only way i have found to get it working is to go back and click the Angel of Bow but do not adjust the the AoB just press the tick again and do the same for range, Then try the Speed again and it should set it for you.

There is another problem where it will come up with stupid things like 60knts and stuff which is ridiculious lol. But just keep asking for the speed until it gives you a more reasonable speed.

Then once you have your speed just push the tick again and the tick again for the main page and it should give you your Gyroangel and you can check that with your bearing to see exactly which bearing its gonna head in.

Hope that helps

Catfish · 12-02-09, 02:54 PM

Hello,

well thanks, i will try the automatic method first, but ...

i want to enter the enemy speed into the torpedo screen manually, you know this smaler map with the dials at the rigth,

Now say i have seen an enemy ship at some distance and angle here, and 3.x minutes later at some distance and angle there, i can easily find out what his speed is - but how do i enter it into the speed dial, so that the TDC accepts it ?

I have to click on the right knob once, so the lights go on, and i am able to manually set the enemy speed in the dial.

BUT what do i do THEN ?

If i simply let the setting as it is, without again clicking on the knob the TDC will not accept it - still reads 0 knots.

Same happens when i click on the knob so the illumination lights go out again, it is as well not being sent to the TDC - What am i doing wrong here ?!

Or is it indeed being sent to the TDC, but is just not shown at the right notepad under "speed" - and if it is that way, have i to turn the knob on, or off, after setting the speed manually ?

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

Catfish · 12-08-09, 08:11 AM

Hi,l

tried it several days, but it does not work.

The only "method" to hit anything is to let yourself tell the speed by clicking on the stop watch icon "automatically".

Any manual entering of an estimated speed (especially speed, but not only, angle is also screwed) will send the torpedos +- 90-270 degrees from your current heading.

E.g. estimate the speed at 12 knots. I enter the right ship from the recognition manual, set distance, and angle on the bow (say 3000 meters distance, and 80 degrees AOB), open the tube, go to torpedo seettings and enter manually (!) the torpedo depth to 3 feet or so, and the target speed to 12 knots.

Go back to periscope, one more check of AOB and distance, and fire. The torpedo goes right away at an angle (relative to ownship) of 90 degrees, parallel to target course, and in the direction to where the target came from.

I cannot understand that i am the only one who experiences that ?

Greetings,
Catfish

looney · 12-08-09, 10:16 AM

In the attack map screen there are several dials (The important ones are in the centre) Here you can manually adjust them.. Only on the right side of the centre group there is a small button (green IIRC) push it once (turns red). You can adjust the speed on the dails now.

Then pus the same button again and only use the notepad for range updates (and maybe aob). DO NOT make new speed estimates using the notepad. It will overwrite the value you inputted.

If I have taken a good track and I see no change in course of the ship I usually get in front and position myselve at 500m and 90° aob.

I just thought of it: look at this

it's for sh3 but the controls are similar.
http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/

P.s. I'm writing this at work and can't be more precise cause I''m writing from memory.

Catfish · 12-08-09, 11:14 AM

Hi,

Looney thanks, will try and report -

All the best,
Catfish

Catfish · 12-08-09, 01:03 PM

Hi,
still doesn't work, here's a screenshot:

Target is directly ahead (30 degrees right), speed manually set to 15 knots, was back at periscope, rechecked distance and angle, checked the boxes (not speed ok), and fire.

Periscope indeed points at 30 degrees, now look at the screenshot, were the torpedos are heading ! The path of the next (1 st which is the last left, fired 4-3-2 up to now) is also pointing to the right at appx. 90 degrees. WTF !?

It seens it is the gyro angle, but i never adjusted this manually, let alone screw around with that - now what do i do ? This add-on is somehow useless when you can't play and hit anything

.

Greetings,
Catfish

Catfish · 12-08-09, 01:58 PM

Hi,
even better now ! Now if i take the speed "automatically" (say 10 knots) and i enter this the torpedo will certainly not hit, since this automatic guessing is complete bullsh!t.
But even on full automatic the torpedoes do not even only go at their intended direction, but are still going just 90 degrees to the right - wow what an add-on.
It did not work correct out of the box, and it does not with patch 1.5. A "patch" that screws all up even further, great! I guess all this trouble with SH4 isn't worth it.

Catfish

Catfish · 12-09-09, 03:14 AM

Ok, cooled down a bit lol.

So ... when i automatically take the speed, by clicking on the stop watch symbol of the "speed" notepad in the upper right, and then check the box, it sometimes (!) works right. It then still says 9 knots, or 10 (while in reality will be some 15 knots), but even now in appx. 50 percent of the time the torpdoes will go off to the right, at almost 90 degrees

So be it 9 or 15 knots, the chance to hit is very much reduced.

I wonder what's up with that - no one else experiencing this ? Installation screwed ?

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

looney · 12-09-09, 08:13 AM

Forget automatic speed input... Only use the botepad for last minute range aob adjustments!

And you could try a trip with god's eye view.. (map updates on) so you can see what you did wrong: aob wrong side... range or speed incorrect.

Hmm now I understand your problem!

you have got an incorrect AOB! The AOB is the angle at wich the enemy captain needs to look to spot your submarine.
So if the captain has to look to 45° starboard (right) then the aob is 45° right (green). No matter at what angle your periscope (uzo) is looking!

Catfish · 12-09-09, 09:19 AM

Hello Looney,
thanks for coming back to my rescue

You wrote:

" ... you have got an incorrect AOB! The AOB is the angle at wich the enemy captain needs to look to spot your submarine. ...

Yes - but i do enter the correct angle at the notepad. To find out the angle of the bow, i set the outer ring mark to the position, from which i look at the target ship, which is represented by this "needle".

So if i look at an enemy ship, which is steaming towards me at 45 degrees, i set the ring mark to "315" degrees of the ring, if you imagine this ring as a compass rose. So the angle on the bow is 45 degrees. Now going to the torpedo settings screen, it looks like in the screenshot i posted, only now with 45 rather than 30 degrees. And the torpedo wanders off to the right.

It seems adjusting the angle on the bow at the notepad, and checking the box, does not transmit the appropriate angle to the TDC ?

" ... So if the captain has to look to 45° starboard (right) then the aob is 45° right (green). No matter at what angle your periscope (uzo) is looking! ..."

So how DO is set the AOB ?
From your example, if the captain has to look 45 degrees to the right of his course, to see my ship, he will be e.g. 45 degrees left in my UZO, or periscope (supposing two courses like a "T"). So i adjust the ring mark of the notepad in AOB mode, to 45 degrees - again if you imagine this ring as a compass rose. Because this is how i look at the enemy ship.

I take it the small little symbol or needle is the enemy ship, and i adjust MY view to from where i look at it ?

Or not ?

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

looney · 12-09-09, 09:53 AM

AOB has nothing to do with the direction you look..

Look at tjis thread there is a pic of what the AOB is..

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123699

and here a complete pic on what the tdc actually does :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FiringGeometry.png

Catfish · 12-10-09, 05:08 AM

Hello,

ok, done it exactly like said in all those manuals, and i also remember this whole stuff, but - it does not work. I never hit anything.

Just an example:

We are roughly in a "T" situation, i am running towards his broadside, but my bow points a bit ahead of him, say 20 degrees = 340 degrees seen in the 'scope. Freighter is moving from left to the right.

So the freighter is appx. 20 degrees off my bow, to the left.
Distance is 320 meters.
AOB is (looking from the freighter at me) appx. 60 -70 degrees.
Speed is 8 knots.

What i did:
1. Recognition manual ... Taihosa freighter ... box checked.
2. Set torpedo depth to 3 feet.
3. Open torpedo tube
4. Take distance via periscope (target is too close for UZO) = 320 meters, checked the box (did not fully extend periscope, just that you see something).
5. Set angle off the bow = meanwhile 80-90 degrees (freighter has steamed on on its course).
6. Fire torpedo --> leaves the tube, makes a left turn and goes off at appx. 270 degrees, or exactly left to my current course.

Recheck torpedo settings, still showing the 8 knots i entered.

What is going on here ?
Do you have the SHIV U-boat add-on (patch 1.5), and hit anything ?
I really don't understand it.

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

looney · 12-10-09, 06:00 AM

Yea I find the TDC on german subs easier to use than the american TDC (I played SH3 b4).

From the intel you provide I think the gyro angle of the torp should be around 0. Didn't you forget to set the TDC back on again?

12-02-09, 09:21 AM	#1
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,894 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Help! Manual targeting with german IX2d ? Hello, while i got used t the TDC of stock (1.4) SH4 and even 1.5 with US subs, i wonder how to hit ANYTHING with the german IXD boat. Its's been a while that i played SH3, and i then used Onelifecrisis' manual targeting, so i have completely forgotten how to do this in the original game - or in SH4, with a german boat. Angle on the bow - take it the boat symbol is the target and i adjust the outer "ring" to set ownship angle? - ok. Distance - once checked with recognition manual - ok. BUT: Speed ?? I am used to go so near that 1 or 2 knots deviation don't bother me, but i cannot adjust it at all. So, 2 questions: 1. When i click on "speed" there appears that eye, and an angle with two ships at the upper ends. Ho do i measure that speed ? I need to know what to do exactly - where do i click at exactly, to start the measuring process (at the eye - at one of the ships ? do'nt i need the stop watch ?? what ???), and how do i stop again to take the measured speed ? 2. Supposed i guess the speed, and want to enter it manually: Being at the torpedo screen I click on the manual entering button right of the speed dial, and am now able to set a certain speed manually - now how do i send it to the german TDC ? Have i again to click at the button so am not longer able to adjust anything, or let i the light burn, to use this setting ? Because when i'm back at the periscope the speed still reads "0", regardless what i did, and the torpedo misses everytime, even at distances of less than 600 meters ! Seems i'm dumb as a brick Thanks and greetings, Catfish

12-08-09, 08:11 AM	#5
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,894 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	It does not work. Hi,l tried it several days, but it does not work. The only "method" to hit anything is to let yourself tell the speed by clicking on the stop watch icon "automatically". Any manual entering of an estimated speed (especially speed, but not only, angle is also screwed) will send the torpedos +- 90-270 degrees from your current heading. E.g. estimate the speed at 12 knots. I enter the right ship from the recognition manual, set distance, and angle on the bow (say 3000 meters distance, and 80 degrees AOB), open the tube, go to torpedo seettings and enter manually (!) the torpedo depth to 3 feet or so, and the target speed to 12 knots. Go back to periscope, one more check of AOB and distance, and fire. The torpedo goes right away at an angle (relative to ownship) of 90 degrees, parallel to target course, and in the direction to where the target came from. I cannot understand that i am the only one who experiences that ? Greetings, Catfish

12-09-09, 08:13 AM	#11
looney Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sneek, The Netherlands Posts: 635 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Forget automatic speed input... Only use the botepad for last minute range aob adjustments! And you could try a trip with god's eye view.. (map updates on) so you can see what you did wrong: aob wrong side... range or speed incorrect. Hmm now I understand your problem! you have got an incorrect AOB! The AOB is the angle at wich the enemy captain needs to look to spot your submarine. So if the captain has to look to 45° starboard (right) then the aob is 45° right (green). No matter at what angle your periscope (uzo) is looking! Last edited by looney; 12-09-09 at 08:39 AM.

12-02-09, 09:41 AM	#2
looney Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sneek, The Netherlands Posts: 635 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	best bet is to use the 3minute 15sec rule.. Take bearing and range of the target every 3.15 minutes and plot it on the nav chart. The distance between points is the speed: 100m = 1 knot and 1000m is 10 knots. The eye thingy on the notepad puzzled me also in essence it's a computer automated thingy of what your doin at the 3.15 thingy

12-02-09, 02:54 PM	#4
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,894 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, well thanks, i will try the automatic method first, but ... i want to enter the enemy speed into the torpedo screen manually, you know this smaler map with the dials at the rigth, Now say i have seen an enemy ship at some distance and angle here, and 3.x minutes later at some distance and angle there, i can easily find out what his speed is - but how do i enter it into the speed dial, so that the TDC accepts it ? I have to click on the right knob once, so the lights go on, and i am able to manually set the enemy speed in the dial. BUT what do i do THEN ? If i simply let the setting as it is, without again clicking on the knob the TDC will not accept it - still reads 0 knots. Same happens when i click on the knob so the illumination lights go out again, it is as well not being sent to the TDC - What am i doing wrong here ?! Or is it indeed being sent to the TDC, but is just not shown at the right notepad under "speed" - and if it is that way, have i to turn the knob on, or off, after setting the speed manually ? Thanks and greetings, Catfish

12-08-09, 10:16 AM	#6
looney Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sneek, The Netherlands Posts: 635 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	In the attack map screen there are several dials (The important ones are in the centre) Here you can manually adjust them.. Only on the right side of the centre group there is a small button (green IIRC) push it once (turns red). You can adjust the speed on the dails now. Then pus the same button again and only use the notepad for range updates (and maybe aob). DO NOT make new speed estimates using the notepad. It will overwrite the value you inputted. If I have taken a good track and I see no change in course of the ship I usually get in front and position myselve at 500m and 90° aob. I just thought of it: look at this it's for sh3 but the controls are similar. http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/ P.s. I'm writing this at work and can't be more precise cause I''m writing from memory.

12-08-09, 11:14 AM	#7
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,894 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hi, Looney thanks, will try and report - All the best, Catfish

12-08-09, 01:03 PM	#8
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,894 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hi, still doesn't work, here's a screenshot: Target is directly ahead (30 degrees right), speed manually set to 15 knots, was back at periscope, rechecked distance and angle, checked the boxes (not speed ok), and fire. Periscope indeed points at 30 degrees, now look at the screenshot, were the torpedos are heading ! The path of the next (1 st which is the last left, fired 4-3-2 up to now) is also pointing to the right at appx. 90 degrees. WTF !? It seens it is the gyro angle, but i never adjusted this manually, let alone screw around with that - now what do i do ? This add-on is somehow useless when you can't play and hit anything . Greetings, Catfish

12-08-09, 01:58 PM	#9
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,894 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hi, even better now ! Now if i take the speed "automatically" (say 10 knots) and i enter this the torpedo will certainly not hit, since this automatic guessing is complete bullsh!t. But even on full automatic the torpedoes do not even only go at their intended direction, but are still going just 90 degrees to the right - wow what an add-on. It did not work correct out of the box, and it does not with patch 1.5. A "patch" that screws all up even further, great! I guess all this trouble with SH4 isn't worth it. Catfish

12-09-09, 03:14 AM	#10
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,894 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Ok, cooled down a bit lol. So ... when i automatically take the speed, by clicking on the stop watch symbol of the "speed" notepad in the upper right, and then check the box, it sometimes (!) works right. It then still says 9 knots, or 10 (while in reality will be some 15 knots), but even now in appx. 50 percent of the time the torpdoes will go off to the right, at almost 90 degrees So be it 9 or 15 knots, the chance to hit is very much reduced. I wonder what's up with that - no one else experiencing this ? Installation screwed ? Thanks and greetings, Catfish

12-09-09, 09:19 AM	#12
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,894 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello Looney, thanks for coming back to my rescue You wrote: " ... you have got an incorrect AOB! The AOB is the angle at wich the enemy captain needs to look to spot your submarine. ... Yes - but i do enter the correct angle at the notepad. To find out the angle of the bow, i set the outer ring mark to the position, from which i look at the target ship, which is represented by this "needle". So if i look at an enemy ship, which is steaming towards me at 45 degrees, i set the ring mark to "315" degrees of the ring, if you imagine this ring as a compass rose. So the angle on the bow is 45 degrees. Now going to the torpedo settings screen, it looks like in the screenshot i posted, only now with 45 rather than 30 degrees. And the torpedo wanders off to the right. It seems adjusting the angle on the bow at the notepad, and checking the box, does not transmit the appropriate angle to the TDC ? " ... So if the captain has to look to 45° starboard (right) then the aob is 45° right (green). No matter at what angle your periscope (uzo) is looking! ..." So how DO is set the AOB ? From your example, if the captain has to look 45 degrees to the right of his course, to see my ship, he will be e.g. 45 degrees left in my UZO, or periscope (supposing two courses like a "T"). So i adjust the ring mark of the notepad in AOB mode, to 45 degrees - again if you imagine this ring as a compass rose. Because this is how i look at the enemy ship. I take it the small little symbol or needle is the enemy ship, and i adjust MY view to from where i look at it ? Or not ? Thanks and greetings, Catfish

12-09-09, 09:53 AM	#13
looney Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sneek, The Netherlands Posts: 635 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	AOB has nothing to do with the direction you look.. Look at tjis thread there is a pic of what the AOB is.. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123699 and here a complete pic on what the tdc actually does : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FiringGeometry.png

12-10-09, 05:08 AM	#14
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,894 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, ok, done it exactly like said in all those manuals, and i also remember this whole stuff, but - it does not work. I never hit anything. Just an example: We are roughly in a "T" situation, i am running towards his broadside, but my bow points a bit ahead of him, say 20 degrees = 340 degrees seen in the 'scope. Freighter is moving from left to the right. So the freighter is appx. 20 degrees off my bow, to the left. Distance is 320 meters. AOB is (looking from the freighter at me) appx. 60 -70 degrees. Speed is 8 knots. What i did: 1. Recognition manual ... Taihosa freighter ... box checked. 2. Set torpedo depth to 3 feet. 3. Open torpedo tube 4. Take distance via periscope (target is too close for UZO) = 320 meters, checked the box (did not fully extend periscope, just that you see something). 5. Set angle off the bow = meanwhile 80-90 degrees (freighter has steamed on on its course). 6. Fire torpedo --> leaves the tube, makes a left turn and goes off at appx. 270 degrees, or exactly left to my current course. Recheck torpedo settings, still showing the 8 knots i entered. What is going on here ? Do you have the SHIV U-boat add-on (patch 1.5), and hit anything ? I really don't understand it. Thanks and greetings, Catfish

12-10-09, 06:00 AM	#15
looney Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sneek, The Netherlands Posts: 635 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Yea I find the TDC on german subs easier to use than the american TDC (I played SH3 b4). From the intel you provide I think the gyro angle of the torp should be around 0. Didn't you forget to set the TDC back on again?