Sub books of interest

[GravityWave]

So, I was looking for 'The Silent War' by Craven and 'Dark Waters' about the NR1. To my dismay there aren't even reviews on the usual suspects for ebooks. I read about them from the library awhile (years) ago, but am surprised they aren't more popular. Particularly the Craven one. It's pretty funny, not much Hyman as we say, but still OK. I haven't heard either of them mentioned on the JivT vid's, but I only sample occasionally.

[Shibster]

I've been a long time player of SH3 and mostly 4, still to this day. Someone on here recommended Dick O'Kanes books, Wahoo and Clear the Bridge. I absolutely loved reading those books. Bought them through kindle to use on my tablet at school and I still read them.

I also read Blind Mans Bluff on the recommendation from a former sub guy but I hear there are some around here that dislike it...either way it had some good stories in my opinion.

Currently when I have time I am re reading Tom Clancy's SSN. Obviously fiction but I read it back in high school and have wanted to re read it since I've been watching JivTurky and playing Cold Waters.

Also read Last Stand of The Tin Can Sailors and one about a Japanese destroyer captain which I don't believe I finished. Both good reads as well.

[FPSchazly]

The Silent War by Craven is great, I did a book club on it with some of my friends, with a video of the meeting on my channel (shameless plug):



Friends of mine said it could be difficult to read at times, whereas I did not encounter that at all. That could be because of my engineering background. Craven does talk in a scientific prose at times, especially when delving into specific problems. But overall, a quite good book.

Blind Man's Bluff is interesting, I haven't read it in years. Other books like The Silent War and Red November by W. Craig Reed (which is also good) kind of refute some of the specifics of Blind Man's Bluff, but I can't remember the details.

Red November discusses the author's father's role in eavesdropping on Soviet subs and pinpointing them based on their radio transmissions. It also talks about the four Soviet Foxtrot submarines around Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis. The back half of the book details the author's time as a member of the fire control party aboard a Sturgeon and his role as a Navy diver. It's pretty good.

There's also Stalking the Red Bear, which is rather short. It details one American sub's Holystone mission off Murmansk based on interviews with the Captain. Good, but short.

And I just recently finished The Taking of K-129, which focused on Project Azorian and the CIA's attempt to recover a sunken Soviet ballistic missile submarine. This book focuses a lot on the building of the Glomar Explorer and how truly groundbreaking and revolutionary the technology developed for it was. It of course discusses the operation itself, as well. It was a solid read.

On the fiction side, The Trident Deception by Rick Campbell was a pretty good read. Felt rather Clancy-esque. I've yet to read any more of his work, but this book was also quite good.

There's plenty of stuff out there! Lots of good ones, I don't know that I've read a particularly bad one yet. The non-fiction ones usually all have at least one thing in them that I had not heard prior to reading.

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by Shibster

I also read Blind Mans Bluff on the recommendation from a former sub guy but I hear there are some around here that dislike it...either way it had some good stories in my opinion.

BMB dug into some stories that were never supposed to see the light of day, especially towards the end of the book. That got many pairs of underwear twisted, mine included, because The Silent Service mostly means that we don't talk about what we did. Ever.

By the time I got around to reading it, Sherry Sontag had re-written the dedications section to explain why they wrote the book and mentioned that they were telling the stories for the people (and their families) who could never tell the truth about what they were up to or why they were away from home for so long. So, take that for what its worth. Sontag and Drew are also investigative journalists and BMB was one the early books that relied on FOIA requests to de-classify things like patrol reports. They aimed high and were given access to info that I don't think they expected to see. So, some of the underwear twisting was warranted but at the end of the day it was the government who gave them the access to the info.

Submarine stories are a dual edged sword. When you're not supposed to tell the story in the first place, it makes it easier to add some embellishment knowing that no one is going to stand up and yell "BS!!".

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

There's plenty of stuff out there! Lots of good ones, I don't know that I've read a particularly bad one yet. The non-fiction ones usually all have at least one thing in them that I had not heard prior to reading.

*ahem* "Nimitz Class" and "Kilo Class" by Patrick Robinson *ahem*.

I've read books in the past because I knew they were bad and it was a test of my stamina just to finish them.

Nimitz Class/Kilo Class is the Plan 9 From Outer Space of novels.
It really is THAT bad.

Shoot a nuclear tipped torp at a carrier from 5 thousand yards, oh OK.
Geez, you survived? That must have been a flippin MIRACLE, even if it detonated above the surface.

BTW, never begin a chapter with the word "And".

Quick synopsis of the plot for those who might get interested:


"And they went and they went and they went and they went and they GOT him!" *


Character development? Characters don't act like that or speak like that unless they've had massive brain trauma.


*- For those with sharp eyes, yes indeed- I'm quoting some dialogue from an old movie called "Throw Mama From The Train".

[FPSchazly]

I will stick clear of that one then

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

I will stick clear of that one then

With a mind like yours, you should read them.

Just know going in that its going to be a tough slog.
Also, make sure you get the paperback versions so you don't damage anything when you fling the book at a wall, which will happen several times.

[Shibster]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

BMB dug into some stories that were never supposed to see the light of day, especially towards the end of the book. That got many pairs of underwear twisted, mine included, because The Silent Service mostly means that we don't talk about what we did. Ever.

Submarine stories are a dual edged sword. When you're not supposed to tell the story in the first place, it makes it easier to add some embellishment knowing that no one is going to stand up and yell "BS!!".

I remember now and can understand your side. Thanks for clarifying.

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by Shibster

I remember now and can understand your side. Thanks for clarifying.

I really don't have a "side", I still have a couple of the book's editions.
On the one hand, like I said, I can understand why the underwear got knotted.
On the other hand, back when I wore the funny hat and my dolphins, the annual divorce rate on submarines fluctuated between 95% and 98%.
To put that in context, if you got married on New Year's Eve you would probably be paying alimony by Thanksgiving.

That's one heck of a reward for volunteering for hazardous duty and long hours. So, if some kids get to understand why Dad was such a dirtbag, maybe that isn't such a bad thing.

[GravityWave]

I'm surprised the NR1 doesn't get more credit. Granted it's a mud crawler, but it had wheels! And probably the smallest nuclear powered vessel ever. It's an odd one, but one of Hyman's fav's.

[GravityWave]

Hey, FPS, I really enjoyed the Dangerous Waters stuff. I'd never played with the TMA and bearing rate changes before. Of course, it's all probably done on computers now. Back in the day, lots of things weren't even transistorized. I'd been hoping for some 'drones' (USV's) in the South China Sea mod. Say, an active and armed MOSS or even just a broadcast device for messaging and illumination in the event of lack (or restrained use) of air cover.

KF really destroyed the game by not fixing their initial ranges estimates in the last update. It's so badly broken now as to be almost unplayable.

[GravityWave]

Oddly enough I'm a big (huge) Ed Wood's fan! I've named computer systems Plan_9. It got Golden Turkey awards. I might have to mention that to the JiveOne. I used to have 'Orgy of the Dead' on VHS. It was very bad. Almost classically so. It always reminded me of the Russian submarine design teams.

I'm not sure if links are OK here, so let's find out with an innocent one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Wood_(film)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Outer_Space

If you're going down, go deep!

[Kapitan]

I have quite a few again depends on what your tastes are for me i have a lot of factual books i also have BMB but some like Kursk Down Time to die and Kursk which are 3 books on the same subject but tell it differently.

I tend to steer towards factual books because of the content for me Hostile waters is well one of those that not much is known about, for example in the Film with martin sheen a USN Submarine collides with the K219 as it does in the book (the Offical party line) yet the surviving captain and some crew sued the film makers (like they did with K19 Widow maker Harison ford and Liam neeson) now the only thing that stands out to me that there could have been a collision is the Co Author is a highly respected Soviet submariner Igor Kurdin the story says the submarine sank of its own accord however i do think Britanov scuttled her.

Another good book is Doenitz Memoirs that one for sure will take you some time to get through

[Bilge_Rat]

I read "Blind Man's Bluff" years ago. I can see why some would be upset about the content, OTOH it is one of the few books that deal with Cold War sub ops. The story of USS Lapon trailing the Soviet sub is a classic.

Tom Clancy's "Submarine" is also a good overview. Both books are listed as reference to the game.

"Rising Tide" is BMB from from the Soviet side. Although not as detailed as BMB IMHO, it gives an interesting perspective to the Russian view. For example, BMB details the story of the collision between USS Gato and K-19 from the POV of the american ship. Rising Tide interviewed the captain of the K-19 and tells his side of the story.

https://www.amazon.ca/Rising-Tide-Un.../dp/0465091121

[GravityWave]

Thx. I'll look for RT. 'Kilo Class' didn't have any (class), but was a fun beach read. I just found 'All Hands Down' by Sewell which suggests Scorpion got torp'ed by the Soviets. Some stuff is just getting de-classified. If the Gov is OK with it, the people should be aware of 'our tax dollars at work'. There should be some contrast to the HollyWood (vs Holystone) tales, which is what they are.