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Old 06-21-19, 09:42 AM   #361
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Interesting military video.
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Old 06-22-19, 05:24 AM   #362
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So when NATO bombs Kosovo and then Kosovo is in the process of being annexed by the EU it is ok?
How can a trade union "annex" anything? Each nation has its sovereignty, but the EU as an international intergovernmental body has not, it is no state or nation. And. it. has. no. own. army. The armies exercise together, as a test for defense against aggressive invasions, maybe you can tell who would be the most likely candidate?

"uninformed" lol, maybe if you ask Putin?
Polls prior to the vote had resulted in two-thirds majorities against a spin-off.
According to the OSCE Chairman, the referendum was not constitutional and therefore illegal. Both preparation and implementation were even less in line with international standards than in the referendum in Crimea.
Sorry, no real referendum, no free election, results tampered with and absolutely no credibility.

"no longer have any degree of real sovereignity"
"EU leadership is not accountable to the people of the member states"
"EU is even worse than Russia"
"unaccountable and unelected tyranical executive"


Either you got your hands on "The Sun" or other Rupert Murdoch media, or there must be interesting things to smoke, in Russia
I guess someone like Farage would even agree with you, since it suits his own tales and lies.
Don't feed the trolls.
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Old 06-22-19, 06:16 AM   #363
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If it is a federative (or confederative for that matter) government it can annex states.

As BREXIT shows the states no longer have sovereignity as they cannot exercise their right to leave.

The new forces are under the command of the EU body, this is a fairly standard way to form armed forces historically.

The western powers in Europe, especially those in NATO are by far more agressive (we can count from the number of wars of agression they fought) and revisionist (we can count from the number of regime and border changes they have enacted post cold war).

Which is why Russia and Russian allies need strong internal (to fight against subversion, look at for example how Yeltsin got his 2nd term) and external (to deter agression, particularly in the form of a Lybia or Kosovo style air campaign) security. And that is what we exercise against (for example within Zapad-2017).

I am can ask atleast one person on this image:
 

who happened to be one of the decisionmakers (with Putin) during the Crimea crisis. So in a way, yes I do have a degree of the internal knowledge of the conflict, not that this matters, as any normal observer could generate a nuanced view of the conflict, which began with the 2nd regime change operation in Ukraine, then lead to Crimean referendum and the separate uprising in Donbas, which was carried out by local and non state-actors and were caused by internal Ukrainian problems.

Yet the polls resulted in the majority, which supports the referendum result and does not even require a nuanced understanding of how referendum went (ie how different ethnic groups participated in it). And as we have seen in Kosovo, etc, the referendum does not have to be legal within the country, due to the duality of the international legal system. Not that this stops the West from applying double standards when it suits them.

Well, what I have said is true, would you like me to present evidence towards the points I have made.
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Old 06-22-19, 06:42 AM   #364
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A note of warning - if you disregard the internal causes of the Crimean or Donbas events, the internal causes behind Trump or BREXIT, you are in danger of being blinded by your ideology of the internal problems your country may have and thus unable to fix them.


Which is incidentally why in long term the witch hunts and paranoia may actually be in Russian interests, as they preclude western states from fixing their real problems by making their discussion un-patriotic and otherwise politically incorrect.
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Old 06-22-19, 07:16 AM   #365
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^ yes of course, and if may return this warning:
What seems to work, or is claimed to be better is often just a lie. And if you begin to believe this lie you may be in for a hard awakening.
Don't let yourself be fooled by russian propaganda. And maybe alone in your appartment, with no diversion you may calmly ask yourself why Putin's way of ruling should be superior to other nations and supported by you, honestly.

I admit that dictatorships like China, Russia and recently now Turkey have faster ways to achieve a lot of goals because you do not have to ask anyone beforehand or succumb to ridiculous laws protecting individuals, or individuality or freedom per se, but unfortunately after all this has been always done on the back of the people those one-man-shows claimed to "work" for.


@Skybird, so you are a Reichsbürger?

The Grundgesetz - Germany's constitutional law - does not allow for individual states to break away. "In the Federal Republic of Germany, which is a nation-state based on the constituent power of the German people, states are not masters of the constitution", the court wrote in the decision.
There is no room under the constitution for individual states to attempt to secede because it violates the constitutional order.
So, no Bayxit for you.

Of course there's the "Bayern party":
"The fight for Bavarian independence will not be decided by a court, but rather by the will of the Bavarians," the party wrote on Facebook and Twitter in response to the ruling. In a separate post, they also promised a continued fight for their state’s freedom.
"The Bavarian Party is happy to see in celebration of the New Year that efforts for self determination are growing across Europe… The Bavarian Party will be working towards this with all of its strength in the New Year."


I wish them all the best. Because frankly, i would have aplauded to re-erect the former soviet wall between Bavaria and the rest of Germany

They at least outran a referendum though.. how undemocratic:
"Rather than putting the petition to a referendum, Bavaria’s state premier, Markus Söder, announced it would simply be written into law, passing through parliament"
And this is what it is about: Save the bees! https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rvation-nature
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Old 06-22-19, 08:49 AM   #366
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Not that this has anything to do with the Russians shooting down yet another civilian airliner but I have to wonder about these local independence movements.

Take the Bavaria example, erm, for example, what happens if opposition to independence is concentrated geographically and who draws the boundaries?
If Middle Franconia or even just the citizens of Nuremburg and Ansbach lean (90%) toward remaining a part of Germany does the Bavarian independence movement accept the geographic split or hole it would create in their new country in order for them to get the same right to self determination the Bavarians are demanding for themselves or would they crush these counter revolutionaries like has almost always happened in these situations.
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Old 06-22-19, 09:13 AM   #367
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@Catfish I have demonstrated the ways the EU is less democratic than Russia, for example Russian parliament can propose legislation and the Russian executive is directly elected by the people (though ofc you are going to claim that our elections are illegitimate and we cannot elected our own leaders).
That said making the leap that I support the specific configuration of the status quo that we have is building a strawman.


As to our laws - EU is moving towards more of the same, with the politically driven censorship, political imprisonment and so on and so forth.


@August That is an excelent question, as it shows further dissonance between the two core principles of international law.
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Old 06-22-19, 09:21 AM   #368
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@Skybird, so you are a Reichsbürger? #
Idiot. Whenever you think it pleases you, you come with some stupid, offensive babbling like this. Idiot...!

Quote:
The Grundgesetz - Germany's constitutional law - does not allow for individual states to break away. "In the Federal Republic of Germany, which is a nation-state based on the constituent power of the German people, states are not masters of the constitution", the court wrote in the decision.
There is no room under the constitution for individual states to attempt to secede because it violates the constitutional order.
So, no Bayxit for you.
Now you sound like some of the Spanish ultrannationalist almost fascist hardliners in madrid who also claim that Catalonya's people are not allowed to seek freedom from Madrid - because Madrid has given itself a rule saying that ther eis no right not to be governed by Madrid.

Bulls#!t. Reminds of the Selbstermächtigungsgesetz of the Nazis.

Quote:

Of course there's the "Bayern party":
"The fight for Bavarian independence will not be decided by a court, but rather by the will of the Bavarians," the party wrote on Facebook and Twitter in response to the ruling. In a separate post, they also promised a continued fight for their state’s freedom.
"The Bavarian Party is happy to see in celebration of the New Year that efforts for self determination are growing across Europe… The Bavarian Party will be working towards this with all of its strength in the New Year."


I wish them all the best. Because frankly, i would have aplauded to re-erect the former soviet wall between Bavaria and the rest of Germany

They at least outran a referendum though.. how undemocratic:
"Rather than putting the petition to a referendum, Bavaria’s state premier, Markus Söder, announced it would simply be written into law, passing through parliament"
And this is what it is about: Save the bees! https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rvation-nature
It is always amazing how willingly self-proclaimed social justice fighters and socialists and communists and EU-fans fall back to totalitarian dictatorial rules if these only are aiming at boxing through their matching political worldviews, whereas any resistence to them of even much lesser violence and brutality get brandmarked as the most offensive of crimes. In the end these progressive ideologies claiming to mean it oh so well, alsways want just one thing, and this one thing before any other: they want to command and control people and crack down on everybody as hard as possible who does resist to their claim for having power over him.



The whole civil society and its debates i8s infested by this visurs. It even has conquered debate about ecology, climate, and gender madness syndrome.


And that is what makes this fight so bitter and brutally sooner or later again. Becasue it is not just a disput eoiver agmentds, but it is about claimng the absolute, total power and command and the complete subjugation of the other. Just that those only defending their natural right for freedom, indeed want just this: their freedom. Their natural birth right.

Nobody has a claim for the freedom of others. Nobody has the claim that others only exist to be obedient to his demands and worldviews. Nobody gets biorn and by this circumstance owes to others, may it be few or many. Man is no property, and is nobody else's property.

And the "constitution" in germany? Merkel violates it notoriously, for exmaple since 2015 over mass migration issues, becasue she feels like it - an appeal to cheap emotions is her only justification for violating the Basic Law. And the Grundgesetz also ruled that in case of reunification of germany a new constitution for the whole of Germany should be drafted, since the Grundgesetz, the Basic Law, only was meant as a provisorium for as long as the split in germany existed. But doing so would have cut the power of federal minister presidents of the federal states, and since they did not want to see their power cut, they all united and boycotted the constitutional demand to form a new constitution that then actualy would have been called that: not just a Basic Law, but a constitution.

Formally, Germany has no constitution, and since 30 years runs its polices and institutions on illegal fundaments. A historic fact that is almost forgotten and certainly does not get taught in state schools. The existence of the modern german state rests on an illegal fundament.

Freedom becomes not illegal just because a Basic Law or a constitution rules so. Thats why Madrid has no claim against the catalunyans, and thats why Berlin woudl have no claim against bavarians if the latter would vote for their independence. One can desire to have an agreement on any form of formalization for a possible future secession process by somebody, but even if this formalization gets not inked on paper, there is no argument for claiming that people have no right to be free from another people'S claim over them. That is just a crime, and I claim people even have the right to resist to it with force and the use of weapons, if this right is withheld from them. Anglosaxons, namely the British these days, with their much stronger tradition of liberalism and libertarianism and freedom than it was ever present in continental Europe, seem to understand this easier, and thats why London "allowed" the scottish referendum, and that also is why the politlical caste so desperately tries to hide their attempt of stealing the Brexit from the referendum voters. Its also the reason why Brussel does not understand why Britain should be allowed to leave from the EU's regime of destroying freedoms and liberty. That is becasue on the continent, freedom and liberty never have had an as strong lobby anyway. Raise the red flag again, and soon people rally around it and agree to impose totalitarian command over and draconian penalty against everbyody not marching to the drums of the socialist collective. The tradition of freedom and liberty - speaks English, not German or French. In this feature, the anglosaxon cultural heritage is far superior to that of the continental powers, especially France and Germany. And the Germans do not know what to do with freedom anyway, I think. If they do not get commanded around, they miss something in their lives.

https://www.cuncti.net/politik/1127-...okratieproblem
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Old 06-22-19, 09:50 AM   #369
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@August That is an excelent question, as it shows further dissonance between the two core principles of international law.

Well I don't know about international law but reading this debate I am struck that while nations are seen by some as artificial and illegitimate constructs they bandy about equally artificial constructs themselves as if they were any more legitimate.

When you come right down to it terms like "Bavarian" or "Catalonian" mean exactly the same thing as "Germany" or "Spain" but just on a smaller scale, and the question is how small do these invented territorial subdivisions have to go before the dissenting voices within their boundaries can be legitimately ignored when it comes to things like national independence referendums?
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Old 06-22-19, 09:51 AM   #370
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On Kosovo, Europe sholuld have left it to stoipping he Serbian aggression. Instead the EU believed it to be a brilliant idea to extradite ther Sebrian population in Kosovo and replace it with a mass migration movement from Albania. 90% of the people living inKosovo today who have Albanian roots, have freshly arrived after the NATO bombings of Kosovo, and where no former inhabitants of that place. 90%...! The facts that the eU founds its arugments on why it it does in Kosovo what it doe sin Kosovo - has been fabricated and produced by the EU itself.



It is a stupid policy. Ignroing Serbian histor'Y hiostoric ties to the place remind sof the West ignoraring of storng Russian ties to the crimean region. The damn arroganc eof the eU: to think it can alter, delete, replace hostircally grown feelöings of idnetity an own history and rpalc eit at arvbitarry will with an artifical surrogate form the eU's social engineering laboratories.



Kosovo hangs on th drip, and I see it never becomneing a truly independent state with an independent economy and and independent basis for existencde. It will remain to be a cripple, an artificially created hollow torso of a state, a saddening carricature of a sovereign nation, it will consume foreign money, and will give nothing in return, because there is nothing it can give in return. But hey, we now get Albania as NATO member in the forseeable future, isnt that reat? Albania...! That makes the alliance strong and meaningful again. The whole operation Kosovo by the EU, meant to demonstrate how superior the planning results of this formidable block are and how well it means with Islam, is a desaster. And a smoldering centre of future crisis and war in Europe's underbelly. I am with the Serbs on this issue now - or referring to that US analyst I once read who some years after the war said: "We have bombed the wrong side."
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Old 06-22-19, 09:59 AM   #371
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Well I don't know about international law but reading this debate I am struck that while nations are seen by some as artificial and illegitimate constructs they bandy about equally artificial constructs themselves as if they were any more legitimate.

When you come right down to it terms like "Bavarian" or "Catalonian" mean exactly the same thing as "Germany" or "Spain" but just on a smaller scale, and the question is how small do these invented territorial subdivisions have to go before the dissenting voices within their boundaries can be legitimately ignored when it comes to things like national independence referendums?
In principle as small as it gets by itself. City states. Happened to be the rule in ancient Greece - the claimed cradle of democracy. Nedless to say, that easy it was not, sinc eonly 5-15% of the poulaiton of a Greek polis actually held the status of citizens, but i explained all that before, and repeatedly so.


The more important and relevant question is how to keep big players from eating smaller ones. That is the one question I so far have not heard a convincing answer to, nor do I claim that I have one. Hoppe, Brennan, and others, tried to give answers, yes - but they are not realistic, in my opinion, are too much trusting in optimism and ignoring unplessant, hostile realities.


But that is also part of the truth I say: that if a people deciding to spolit away from a bigger union, mustknow that it then has to live by its own ability, ahs to come zup itself for the costs - and must by itself be able and strong enough to keep the sharks away. And I always said that. I said the Scottish are aelcome to fall out fo the Engolish union if theyx want - but they shall not expect that the eU embraces them with open arms (it would, but I am against it). The Catalunyans are free to end their union with the Spaniards, but they have no claim that Europe then must come up for their financial bills. Desriing Brexit is perfecly legaöl and fine, and I amk against the attempts of the EU to turn it into a punishment of these impertinent rebels darign to put their desire for sovereignty over the demand of Brussole to rule over them. The eu should soberly deal with them on a trade agreement basis, and dismiss all the attached, non-economic stuff - yeS: but beyond that, it either nwill work for the UK late roin, or not. And if Bavaria would vote to drop out of the federal structure oif germany, ti must care itself then to come up with its costs, eo9cnomic needfs, and protection.


You cannot claim to be sovreign and indeoendent if you depend on others and accept your sovereiongty suspended over economic and finciaol needs. Eiether oyu are independent, or you are not. Just claiming to be, but needing the bother to pays your bills - that is not what independence and sovereignty means.



In other words: it is about strength. And not every social, cultural, ethnic entity indeed is strong enough ti beocme truly independent and sovereign. Size has somethign to do with it, whether that is plltially ocrrect or not to point out. Its reality.



What is just not legitimate is that one group says because it benefits from living in a union with another group, the other group has no right to leave that union. If the latter wnats to leave, the first group only may seek to make the union more attroacve to stay in or to make itself more attraicve as a partner. That way the first group can and is allowed to try convincing the other to stay. But it has no claim to demand that, command that, even to use force to enforce that. That is nothing else but conquest, subjugation, imperialsim.
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Old 06-22-19, 10:51 AM   #372
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@Catfish I have demonstrated the ways the EU is less democratic than Russia [...]
Maybe this is how it is made to be heard, but we know how it really is, don't we?
Quote:
As to our laws - EU is moving towards more of the same, with the politically driven censorship, political imprisonment and so on and so forth.
Nonsense. Political prisoners? What do they tell you in Russia?
"Political driven censorship": While i personally think that e.g. climate change is a reality, there are millions who plain deny it, but no one is telling them to shut up, let alone by force or censorship. That most of the media jump thisor that train mostly depends on their political stance or also on plain stupidity but hey, they are all there and can be read and listened to.

All have their say and there is a lot of discussion, often disrespectful, and this can be seen everywhere. This is why it is much harder in a democracy to rule and make laws, you have to discuss and convince others, there is no going it alone. Or if you may soon stumble, e.g. by the weight of public opinion.
It is also more difficult in a democracy to refute/disprove any lie or accusation, because this takes more effort and time than to invent those accusations. Something the german AfD has developed to perfection, to paralyze other parties and the government.

Still, a bit different in Russia:
If you call Putin a dimwit you are at least fined, because you do not criticize the leader. Lèse-majesty. If you write like Mrs Politovskaya about state crime, state terrorism and have evidence for the leader ignoring law and constitution you may suddenly suffer an "accident". If you become a rich 'oligarch' who thn has additionla political influence, you go to jail. At least.
I have to seee this in any of the EU states yet.

Also: No criticism of the government allowed, in Russia:
https://www.npr.org/2019/03/18/70460...=1561217817999
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Old 06-22-19, 01:50 PM   #373
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Well I don't know about international law but reading this debate I am struck that while nations are seen by some as artificial and illegitimate constructs they bandy about equally artificial constructs themselves as if they were any more legitimate.

When you come right down to it terms like "Bavarian" or "Catalonian" mean exactly the same thing as "Germany" or "Spain" but just on a smaller scale, and the question is how small do these invented territorial subdivisions have to go before the dissenting voices within their boundaries can be legitimately ignored when it comes to things like national independence referendums?
If you want to look at a real world example, you can look at the 1980 and 1995 Quebec independence referendums.

They were in many ways illegal since the Canadian constitution has no provision dealing with a province breaking away. However, in practice there was no way to stop the province from holding the vote, unless you follow the Spanish example, impose martial law and arrest the whole bunch, but the thinking was that this would backfire and increase support.

If the referendums had won a province wide majority, yes there were groups ready to have other refefendums to have their regions remain in Canada, which would have been a nightmare.

In the end, both votes failed so we dodged the bullet.
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Old 06-24-19, 08:49 AM   #374
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Nonsense. Political prisoners?
People get arrested for misgendering others on social media.
People get sentenced with prison time over jokes.
There is massive politically driven censorship in tech companies that is driven by pure ideology rather than scientific theory such as the climate change. Ie:




You should really try to see a log in your own eye before trying to find a log elsewhere. If you can't, well, then you are a useful idiot for us, so I guess I am well off either way.
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Old 06-24-19, 09:28 AM   #375
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"Project Veritas" eh?
Always nice to use latin words, makes it look so scientific and well researched. But no:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/project-veritas/

[Veritas] " ... created by James Edward O’Keefe III who is an American conservative political activist. He produces secretly recorded undercover audio and video encounters, some selectively edited to imply its subjects said things they did not, with figures and workers in academic, governmental and social service organizations, purporting to show abusive or allegedly illegal behavior by employees and/or representatives of those organizations. Project Veritas primarily targets liberals and liberal organizations."

"Often his information is debunked, but it is too late as the information has already been watched by thousands or more."
Classic troll. Steam roll everyone with claims that cannot be debunked as fast as you create new lies. See Farage and the like.

Quote:
"People get arrested for misgendering others on social media.
People get sentenced with prison time over jokes."
Evidence please.

And what has this Google and "tech companies" thing to do with arresting people, because of political reasons, in the EU?
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