London tower block fire: Flames engulf Grenfell Tower

[Jimbuna]

By Saturday morning, 83 people had refused to leave their homes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40391395

I'm not sure if the 83 people who refused to leave their homes are brave or foolish?

Given the choice and if I was resided on a double figure floor number I think I's have chosen to leave.

[Moonlight]

Camden tower block resident, 72, 'absolutely stressed' by upheaval

You can't do right for doing wrong, what the hell happened to that British stiff upper lip we used to have, ah yes I know, it looks as if we've been blessed with a limp soggy European one now, well I don't think that's a bloody blessing and it needs getting rid of and fast.

Me, me, me, me, me, those British citizens don't understand the consequences of what would've happened to the council members if anything had happened after receiving that news from the fire service, I can see why they wanted you out fast but you apparently can't, some people shouldn't be allowed to breed me thinks.

Obviously the council had to act quickly on this news from the fire department or they would all have been put under criminal investigation by the police if anything like Grenfell had happened in that tower block.

If a fire had taken place at that block of flats resulting in loss of life the claims by those residents would have resulted in hundreds of thousands if not millions of pounds in compensation claims.

You should be thanking the bloody council for taking urgent action you silly old bat instead of bloody moaning about it, a few days hardship is no comparison to being dead now is it.

[Mr Quatro]

Breaking news: (no link due to it is ABC and they block the news with a video)

Over 800 north London public housing apartments being evacuated over fire safety concerns

The tower blocks, located in the Camden area of north London, are covered in the same cladding that surrounded Grenfell Tower, officials said. The buildings, which failed safety tests, will undergo emergency work over the next three to four weeks.

[STEED]

Cladding on 34 tower blocks in 17 council areas in England has failed fire safety tests, the government says.
The results mean every sample has failed the tests so far. The government plans to test up to 600 blocks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40391395

Oh....

[Jimbuna]

Well, it now looks like evictions will eventually take place take place if those that are refusing to do so voluntarily try to remain....and rightly so.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40397302

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Well, it now looks like evictions will eventually take place take place if those that are refusing to do so voluntarily try to remain....and rightly so.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40397302

I agree but the tactics used have been heavy handed and the lack of communications between council and residents has been a disgrace.

[Aktungbby]

Given the inter-corporate nature of the scandal, shoddiness of cladding, governmental lack of oversight, and potential 'scapegoat' ( Ray Bailey) I dub the whole fiasco....with 34 more buildings throughout the realm "Claddingate". It makes Oakland, CA's recent Ghostship warehouse fire (36 dead) appear minimal by comparison. On June 5, 2017, Almena and Ghost Ship creative director Max Harris were arrested and charged with felony involuntary manslaughter in connection with the fire. They face 39 years in prison if convicted. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/ Bail for the two non-owner scapegoats was set at over 1.000.000 apiece....But the city of Oakland is also seriously culpable for non-enforcement of safety standards.

Oakland officials have repeatedly denied that fire and building officials were aware of the danger," the Los Angeles Times writes although "public records released by the city in February show the building had been subject to at least 10 code enforcement complaints

As a youngster in the 70's, I was an alarm agent and later fire-inspector for clients in the Bay area; responsible for inspections at hospitals, shopping malls, and care facilities for the severely handicapped. Inspection of heat sensors, water-flow sprinkler systems, and smoke equipment fell to me.... the burden of realizing that if you miss a piece of equipment...some person will not escape grows on you-even in rat infested crawlspaces and cobwebbed attics. Case in point: on a routine yearly inspection of my high-rise building im 1999> with a fire marshal to certify: I as court bailiff/security officer on my first inspection; and my very astute building engineer opened the hallway phone-line closet on my third floor where the line conduit ran vertically 'twixt the thirty floors of the building's concrete floors- 3+ years new with a sophisticated pressurized fire escape system. Not overly familiar with the building; but having read the voluminous fire-escape/evac procedures for the building, I immediately noted the 3" phoneline pipe had a 1/4 " gap all-round the opening in the flooring and ceiling...!!! I innocently asked the engineer if it ''were possible to drop a dime from the top floor all the way to the basement through the gap?'' As in a 300' vertical submarine, the 30 'compartments' were thus not air-tight; the pressurized fire stairs would never function properly in a real smokey fire! The engineer and the fire marshal realized that, for three previous years, they had looked but not seen-the fire-marshal: "Good god! And I've been looking at this for three years!" - the problem was resolved that day with relatively simple inexpensive firberglass heat resistant sealant on all floors- and all those gorgeous secretaries in their stiletto heels could henceforth bug-out through the now more effective fire exits-I got a submarine sandwich from the well-stilettoed building manager for my astute observation! I am under no illusion that my case was unusual......

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I'm not sure if the 83 people who refused to leave their homes are brave or foolish?

I think they're suicidal.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Skybird

And roasted widow.

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

I think they're suicidal.

WELL... in the case of some poor Gujarati-Indian immigrant lady who's husband has just keeled over from hydrogen cyanide cladding smoke in the livingroom : more a matter of traditional suttee on the settee !!!??

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

WELL... in the case of some poor Gujarati-Indian immigrant lady who's husband has just keeled over from hydrogen cyanide cladding smoke in the livingroom : more a matter of traditional suttee on the settee !!!??

Damn mate, that's dark even by my standards

[STEED]

The US firm that supplied cladding thought to have been used on London's Grenfell Tower has ended global sales for use in high-rise blocks, it says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40409981

[Jimbuna]

^ No big surprises there then

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Given the inter-corporate nature of the scandal, shoddiness of cladding, governmental lack of oversight, and potential 'scapegoat' ( Ray Bailey) I dub the whole fiasco....with 34 more buildings throughout the realm "Claddingate".

Originally Posted by STEED

The US firm that supplied cladding thought to have been used on London's Grenfell Tower has ended global sales for use in high-rise blocks, it says. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40409981

Well!! the deeper corporate pocket has been found and poor scapegoat Ray Bailey may be relieved of duty! http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/emails-show-arconic-cladding-manufacturer-in-london-tower-fire-knowingly-supplied

Six e-mails sent by and to an Arconic Inc sales manager raise questions about why the company supplied combustible cladding to a distributor for use at Grenfell Tower, despite publicly warning such panels were a fire risk for tall buildings. The e-mails, dating from 2014 and seen by Reuters, were between Deborah French, Arconic’s UK sales manager, and executives at the contractors involved in the bidding process for the refurbishment contract at Grenfell Tower in London, where 79 people died in a blaze last week.
When asked about the e-mails, Arconic said in a statement that it had known the panels would be used at Grenfell Tower but that it was not its role to decide what was or was not compliant with local building regulations.The company manufactures three main types of Reynobond panel – one with a polyethylene (PE) core, one with a fire retardant core and another with a non-combustible core, according to its website.The company manufactures three main types of Reynobond panel – one with a polyethylene (PE) core, one with a fire retardant core and another with a non-combustible core, according to its website. Reynobond panels describe how PE core panels are suitable up to 10m in height. Panels with a fire resistant core – the FR model – can be used up to 30m, while above that height, panels with the non-combustible core – the A2 model – should be used, the brochure says.
Grenfell Tower is more than 60m tall. The brochure also issued a blunt warning that cladding can be a fire risk.
“When conceiving a building, it is crucial to choose the adapted products in order to avoid the fire to spread to the whole building. Especially when it comes to facades and roofs, the fire can spread extremely rapidly,” the brochure said. “As soon as the building is higher than the fire fighters’ ladders, it has to be conceived with an incombustible material.”

The fatal fire was started by a faulty Hotpoint fridge-freezer in one of the apartments, London police said on Friday. Essentially one poor rivet on a fatally flawed Titanic- samo samo imho!

The UK uses a "principles-based" approach to regulation which puts an onus on companies to operate safely, based on common understanding of risks and the technology available.
This differs to the highly specific "rules-based" approach to regulation taken in the United States.

As usual, the leading cause of death in the 21st century is still other people!... either by what they do or, equally, by what they do not do! The angel of death ain't real picky. <how three different cladding should have been used!

[fireftr18]

In my experience, people will believe a paid spokesperson for a company that stands to gain a profit over a well educated and experienced person that gets no financial gain or loss.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by fireftr18

In my experience, people will believe a paid spokesperson for a company that stands to gain a profit over a well educated and experienced person that gets no financial gain or loss.

add "anytime."

This is why our politicians always ask the operating companies whether e.g. our nuclear plants are safe. So all is well and "im Himmel ist Jahrmarkt".
[~"...there's a carnival in heaven")

Seriously, most politicians have no idea of the job they are doing, or the ministry they work for. So they have to rely on someone's expertise. Now guess how many independent experts there are.