Empire Total War - naval battle gameplay trailer released

[AJ!]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

I like PotBS very much (Though I still think introducing the Supernatural content was stupid), but I guess it's a matter of taste

I would also like a game that accurately depicts 18th century naval combat though

Supernatural content?
I played PotBS a few months ago and found it alright. I liked the naval combat because it was light hearted and looked nice. I gave up though because im just not a mass multiplayer person. I think the problem is you have to dedicate too much of your time to leveling up which just makes me think i could be doing something better with my time. I got to level 13 after hours of playing and as always with these games it gets to the point where it takes 3 hours just to level up once....

Back on subject though i do hope they do a half realistic job here. It looks fantastic so far but the one bit i didnt like was those trails left by the cannonballs. I know the odd shot would leave a faint trail but these are full on white lines
Have a good look at one of the first broadsides in the trailer if your not sure what im on about.

[stabiz]

The devs have said these trails will be optional, I believe.

[AJ!]

Originally Posted by stabiz

The devs have said these trails will be optional, I believe.

Now if that is true then that has just made my day

[tater]

Originally Posted by TheBrauerHour

Interesting. I was involved in the closed beta of PotBS, and I left due to the lack of realism. The closed beta forums were filled with complaints about the direction the game was going. When they announced they would add magical content, I told them I was gone.

Anyone who has read Patrick O'brian or at least watched Master and Commander knows what type of game I would like. Maybe it is a niche, but seeing how many people were dissapointed by PotBS, and knowing that everyone I hang out with also wants a true depiction of the Age of Sail makes me think that an accurate game would do well.

Part of the fun is sailing and the fact that the wind must be a primary factor in any engagement.

I wasn't in any betas od POTBS, I left when I saw the change in direction from the devs in the forums. I hung around posting for a while, trying to get digs in (realistic feeling vs magical sailing) but to no avail.

Here's the deal.

The age of sail is fascinating from a role-playing standpoint with the player as an officer/captain. It offers cool ship combat, hand to hand, cutting out, sending parties to on shore to attack land targets (gun batteries, etc).

Part of what makes such things challenging is the wind. Blockading harbors works because there are limited times and places ships can leave due to the wind. Accurate at some base level—again, I don't require player control of every single staysail, etc—means replay ability. You can have the same French Frigate vs British frigate action, and with variable wind conditions, it would be fun and different every single time. Strikes me in POTBS (or similar), the only difference might be randomness in the damage models.

Sailing is everything to an age of sail game. I can even see for multiplayer speeding up time, so that engagements take less time. More important is not allowing ships to sail past close-hauled without towing (and only then in light wind after manning the boats (at GQ, they should have been hoisted out and trailed astern with a painter anyway).

I see all these games and it makes me sad there is no way to mod the awesome models into something realistic. I'd be all over a good frigate level age of sail game like a bad suit.

[stabiz]

Originally Posted by AJ!

Now if that is true then that has just made my day

I am 99% sure someone from CA said this in a thread at twcenter, the reason for these trails is so you will easier see whats shooting at what.

Anyway, if its not an option its probably the first mod we will see.

In other news Empire is supposedly easier to modify, and a WW1-mod is allready announced.

[Raptor1]

WW1? I wonder if that'll work

What I would like to see is the game going into the Victorian era either through a mod or an expansion, going from ca. 1830 to ca. 1895, that would be great

[tater]

One thing about wind specific to the AoE idea of a more strategic look at things. Wind is HUGELY important for Napoleonic naval strategy. The RN's blockades were very highly wind dependent, as were French chances at slipping out of port. Part of what made different ports, coasts, and islands strategically important had to do with prevailing winds. Not including wind would be like not having "General Winter" in Bonny's campaign into Russia.

Just saying.

Naval stuff always gets the short end of the stick.

tater

[AJ!]

In all fairness tater, People over at the other total war forums seem to be at the same conclusion that the naval aspect of empire has had a lot more time and effort spent on it then the land battles. This has come about due to the quality of some of the land screenshots which i think look fine apart from the poor quality in the town shot which looks worse then M2TW.

That WW1 mod sounds fantastic. Trench warfare and dreadnoughts sounds good

[Raptor1]

Sheesh, you make it sound like wind will not effect anything at all...

[AJ!]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

Sheesh, you make it sound like wind will not effect anything at all...

CA have already stated that wind will play a big part in the naval battles although things will be alittle faster for game play purposes. I see what tater means about AoS games having a lack of realism but theres got to be line drawn for gaming.

[tater]

Can you sail into the wind, regardless of speed, yes, or no?

If you can always steer the way you want, then it is exactly analogous to a flight sim with no gravity.

For example, take a strategic level movement of a squadron. You order 8 sail of the line, and as many frigates to the West Indies. If ships can always sail into the wind (or even with NO wind) at 3 knots, then there is a maximum time for transit. It might be shorter, but it would NEVER be longer. In reality, transit times across the Atlantic were extremely variable. On squadron gets stuck in the doldrums for weeks, another barely hits them, gets the Trades, and is on its way. The transit times and uncertainties are critically important for trying to have a strategic scale game.

That's another reason "real time strategy" games are not real time, not strategy. They are tactical, effectively since the real strategic thinking is gone.

Going back to an old grognard sci fi board game, 5th Frontier War did a great job of getting that age of sail feel since travel took time, as did ORDERS. In that game a turn was one week, and you needed to plot movements 5 weeks in advance. There were some admiral counters that could be in fleets, and would allow them to act independently. Cool idea, though.

That would be neat in a Napoleonic game, to have to send forces with orders, and they only have limited latitude to act outside their orders. The player would have an imposed fog of war, and would only see the situation at the point he hears about it (riders sent with information, or ships sent with dispatches, etc).

I can dream

[Raptor1]

That would be kinda hard to simulate when the startegic game is turn-based and each turn takes 1-2 years, wouldn't it?

They couldn't do something like this even if they wanted to

[tater]

I didn't realize the strat game was so long. Wow. Another reason I won't be playing this. I'm all for turn-based, board/miniatures grognard that I am, but even 1 year is too long for any sort of meaningful game that involves combat at all. 1-3 months per turn, maybe. Even 6 months is OK but coarse. Diplomacy was a simple game, after all.

[Raptor1]

Well, thinking about it, I don't know how long it will take, Medieval II was 2 years a turn, but this will probably be shorter (11th-15th century as opposed to 18th-19th centuries), so I don't know how long the turns will take

If the turns are shorter (3 months or so), putting a random factor on how far exactly ships will travel down the path you gave them might be the best idea

[AJ!]

What i want to know is how the capital ships of the different navies will be used in game. The total war series has never really used unique units. All the men would be generic and their loss wouldn't mean anything. With ships however we would have the famous capital ships like HMS victory and Le Redoutable. Would such ships be available to us or will we just be using generic ships that if lost would be simple to replace.

I hope its alot harder to build ships in this game. I also hope first rate ships cost a hell of alot of money and have some sort of strict cap on how many you could have. I also hope it takes alot of time to build these. It would be stupid if they had a system like the other games when you could build a whole fleet in one turn.