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Old 01-09-2018, 04:28 AM   #1
FullMetalADCAP
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Default [REQ]Sub Interiors?

Any possibility of adding sub interiors sort of like "688 Attack Sub" on the PC/Sega Genesis for both American subs and Russian subs? I love the game but feel so "detached" when I'm always viewing everything from the outside of my sub all the time. The sim could really use realistic interior stations with (at least) 2D art for the interiors of the various playable subs in the game so that you feel like you're in the submarine and not playing as some fish swimming around viewing the sub from the outside all the time. Would be great if there were clickable/toggle switches in each of the various stations also. Hope this can be done with this sim.

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Old 01-09-2018, 06:01 AM   #2
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Would be fine, but I hope you realize that the work to be done for Killershish would maybe surpass what they have done with the entire game until now, so we are not going to see this tomorrow, and sureley not for free.

Sub interiors, at least a generic one which you can roam in 3D like in Silent Hunter 5, would increase the immersion of the game tremendously, but it requires a lot of artwork done by a group of professionals which is not in reach for every developer (Killerfish Games has not the ressources in specialized personel which Ubisoft has).

And then, there is the question if it's financially worth it, devs have to live methink...
Tip for Killerfish Games: If you ever think doing such add-on, make a simple one that can be modded afterwards!

I would pay for it if such add-on is made.

Last edited by XenonSurf; 01-09-2018 at 06:17 AM.
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Old 01-09-2018, 05:24 PM   #3
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I have the ability to model and texture the control rooms and sonar shacks of multiple classes of US boats, and can tell you from personal experience that it takes a LOT of hard work to make the sets look accurate and decent-looking, while keeping the poly count low enough to work within the game engine (probably Unity.)

While a lot of the same equipment can be used to populate each set, the layouts of each class of boat varies. A lot of in-depth research goes into establishing reference material. Submarine interiors are completely packed with piping, cabling, and ventilation lines before the equipment is installed. All of this has to be modeled in 3D. 2D would detract from the rest of the established graphics which contribute so much to the game. Some of my (old) work is posted in my user CP.

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Old 01-10-2018, 02:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XenonSurf View Post
Would be fine, but I hope you realize that the work to be done for Killershish would maybe surpass what they have done with the entire game until now, so we are not going to see this tomorrow, and sureley not for free.

Sub interiors, at least a generic one which you can roam in 3D like in Silent Hunter 5, would increase the immersion of the game tremendously, but it requires a lot of artwork done by a group of professionals which is not in reach for every developer (Killerfish Games has not the ressources in specialized personel which Ubisoft has).

And then, there is the question if it's financially worth it, devs have to live methink...
Tip for Killerfish Games: If you ever think doing such add-on, make a simple one that can be modded afterwards!

I would pay for it if such add-on is made.
That's true. It's probably not a priority but it would add SO much more "depth" (pun intended) to this game.

To be honest, I wasn't even considering giving it a go based off the screenshots. I saw no interiors modeled and figured I'd stick with Dangerous Waters for modern day sub warfare. It gave me the impression just viewing screenshots that it's an arcade game and not a real simulator.

But having played it, I realized it was no arcade game either. It's a sim... I guess. But I'm not sure "sim" is accurate either with no interiors modeled? It's more of a strategy game without the interiors. Sure, you control the model but you're not inside the model actually piloting it and that takes a huge hit on immersion. Like, I'm not a big fan of tank "sims" where you don't actually sit behind the controls and drive the tank or sit in the gunner's seat and control the main gun in first person perspective. Such "sims" feel more like arcade games to me.
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:49 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Wolf View Post
I have the ability to model and texture the control rooms and sonar shacks of multiple classes of US boats, and can tell you from personal experience that it takes a LOT of hard work to make the sets look accurate and decent-looking, while keeping the poly count low enough to work within the game engine (probably Unity.)

While a lot of the same equipment can be used to populate each set, the layouts of each class of boat varies. A lot of in-depth research goes into establishing reference material. Submarine interiors are completely packed with piping, cabling, and ventilation lines before the equipment is installed. All of this has to be modeled in 3D. 2D would detract from the rest of the established graphics which contribute so much to the game. Some of my (old) work is posted in my user CP.

CCC
I would think there could be a way to just model zoomed in panels and not entire spaces with too much detail. This could be generic panels/displays for all US vessels and something different and generic for all Russian vessels. While it might not be 100% accurate for someone who knows as much as you do, it would suit the needs for 99.9% of players who've never stepped foot on a US or Russian submarine who want something immersive and don't need 100% accuracy.

Certainly a 3D visual would be superior to a 2D one. Maybe by keeping it small to just a zoomed in visual of a specific panel/display instead of an entire comparment/space on board the submarine it could be done without needing a huge budget with lots of unnecessary visuals.

Like when you sit down at the hydrophone station in Silent Hunter 3. Your head movement is limited to keep your focus on the panel/display before you.

Or in Dangerous Waters, you just see the panel of the station you are at. It would certainly be better than always seeing your sub from a exterior view with tons of popup panels that get in the way of the exterior view and are small in size which makes it hard to view them. And for a real hardcore player, just playing the game via panels and no exterior view would be the ultimate challenge since that's what it's like in real life. Not sure they attach waterproof GoPros to submarines these days so the Captain can see his ride from the outside and hack into the GoPro of enemy subs so he can see their ride also. LOL!



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Old 01-10-2018, 05:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Wolf View Post
---
Some of my (old) work is posted in my user CP.
---
Hey - I failed to find your work in subsim image albums and your user profile page. Where can I view them?
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:15 AM   #7
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If you play at a fixed resolution you can probably mod the existing interface to have fullscreen 'stations' for helm, conditions, signature, stores and damage control, provided you play the game from the 'tab' full screen tactical map.
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:52 PM   #8
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@ Erik:

You can find a few examples of my work in the, "Pictures and Albums" section of my profile.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/album.php?albumid=1147

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Old 01-11-2018, 07:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julhelm View Post
If you play at a fixed resolution you can probably mod the existing interface to have fullscreen 'stations' for helm, conditions, signature, stores and damage control, provided you play the game from the 'tab' full screen tactical map.
This is very good news, IMO added 2D screens would fit the whole game system much better than work-intensive 3D rooms.


Suggestions:
In some games I have seen a good combination of 2D rooms where you go int the different rooms by just clicking on doors or hatches. The artwork just has to be done in a way to give a good 3D impression.
In Cold Waters, these 2D rooms would fill 1/3 of the lower screen leaving the upper 2/3 for the outside view, with a key command to hide the whole rooms and command items if desired (returning to the current outfit). There would be the Command Room with sonar station, periscope station (already present!) and tactical view (already there!), all in full 2D with some inner decors of the sub, hatches/doors leading to the repair screen, then to the forward torpedo room; the aft torpedo room being left from command room.

With such 2D rooms, special effects are easier to add, like water level rising when flooding occurs etc. Modern game engines (CW uses Unity?) allow for moving effects that pretty look like 3D although all grafics are in 2D, even moving NPC's are possible I think.
The artwork for such 2D rooms would be easier to do than similar 3D models, I'm sure.

However, I'm aware that all this above is still a big work to do.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:14 AM   #10
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I'm currently playing (amongst other SH games and CW) Silent Hunter 5. Actually it is so that you can walk in every part of your sub, in multiple 3D rooms. But I realize that I'm rarely going in these rooms, they are not necessary for the gameplay.
In Cold Waters this is the same situation. You are playing as a sub commander, and his job is not running through all the sub to give orders, he stays in the command room.

So some 2D screens to elevate the decor of the game would be fine, but there's no need to push a lot of work for additional rooms or so, because it doesn't fit the CW's gameplay. I can hardly imagine what you - as a commander - would reasonably do in such rooms.

SH3 and SH4 have 3 main room parts, just enough to make sense for the player: The command room where you chose the map, the logs etc., the conning tower where you use the sonar, radar, attack periscope, and the bridge. As a 'joke' there is the commander's cabin where you can go to sleep (at Ubisoft people have the means and some extra time to carry out such stuff, not so with a small dev team). And that's it. It makes sense because you are indeed using these rooms in your gameplay and your role of commander.

Years ago I measured the wealth of game companies or developers by how many easter eggs are in the game. Today this doesn't apply anymore.

Last edited by XenonSurf; 01-12-2018 at 04:38 AM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:01 PM   #11
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The lack of interiors is a conscious design choice, it's not because we're not capable of building interiors.

SH5 is an interesting example. They went to great lengths to give the player a useable minimap so he doesn't have to spend 90% of the game in fullscreen map views, but at the same time only make combat controls available if you physically walk to use the attack scope or the deck gun. What we did is take the minimap concept and give the player full access to ALL commands for fighting his boat regardless of where the camera is, so you can concentrate on tactics and watching the action play out in a cinematic way.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:45 PM   #12
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And a good choice, without any doubt
This makes CW innovative, and I like it. The 'rooms' are in my head, no need to see them onscreen actually. Besides: the action can get so intense, so I hardly can care about rooms, except maybe when it comes to flooding, but the repair screen does its job well, no need to swim in the boat...
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:23 AM   #13
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Concur. I like.
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