Ijn Bb Kongo

Originally Posted by tater

All the warships are getting the once over by observer.

I have put every single US sub attack on a warship into a spreadsheet so we can see the really important stuff, like how many hits various classes survived, and how badly damaged they were.

IJN CAs seem to be the most tough, one survived 4 torpedoes in one attack, and none were sunk with fewer than 4. Kong a was what, 3 hits (my spreadsheet is on my other computer).

but its useless to me unless its released as a stock 1.5 stand alone fix mod because i dont use RFB

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

i didnt know you could fix the damage zones as well, so if you can and if you want another challenge, the shokaku carrier has a terrible damage model. its like the thing sits on a balloon under the bridge and it rolls over rather than sinking as it should, if you think you might be interested in it look here at an old thread i had about it: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=137911

i understand if you are too busy with other stuff, but if you could this would be another huge fix for the game.

webster

I'll check that out later Webster. I might be like the USS CA North Carolina, it sank
so fast it was laughable. It may take some time, I can't remeber off the top of
my head all I did to correct the North Carolina but I think I changed it's zon file
entirely with another ship that was comparable. But I fixed it.

ZW

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by tater

That is GREAT.

I have already fixed some issues with Kongo, it is in the new RSRDC. I have added nodes to apply the radars she got over time, the director works, etc.

With new paint. Wow!

tater

I would imagine all you would have to do is to add the nodes
again to the dat file as raw chunks. But the my fix will be
1.5 stock compatible.

ZeeWolf

[tater]

It's less work to take just the DM stuff out of RFB than it is to redo every single zone on every ship, AND likely change weapons damages and radii for every weapon, IMO.

One requires tons of S3D and text file work, the other involves making a copy of RFB and delting files that are not related to damage.

YMMV.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by tater

IJN CAs seem to be the most tough, one survived 4 torpedoes in one attack, and none were sunk with fewer than 4. Kong a was what, 3 hits (my spreadsheet is on my other computer).

Wasn't Kako sunk by 3 torpedoes from the S-44?

[tater]

Kako claimed 4 hits, but the TROM says 3 hits.

I need to update my spreadsheet, it was straight typing from Alden, that's why I was saying if anything the numbers would be high since claimed hits were higher than real hits, likely. Alden was more concerned with confirming the results of the attacks and targets, and only lists the shots fired/hits from the patrol reports.

The most hits survived by a BB, however, was 2, and the fewest to sink was also 3.

So CAs were 4 survived, with one sunk by 3 (corrected).

I need to double check the lighter ships, I put all in fron Alden, and checked starting with the big boys vs the troms. Need to check all.

tater

Originally Posted by tater

Kako claimed 4 hits, but the TROM says 3 hits.

I need to update my spreadsheet, it was straight typing from Alden, that's why I was saying if anything the numbers would be high since claimed hits were higher than real hits, likely. Alden was more concerned with confirming the results of the attacks and targets, and only lists the shots fired/hits from the patrol reports.

The most hits survived by a BB, however, was 2, and the fewest to sink was also 3.

So CAs were 4 survived, with one sunk by 3 (corrected).

I need to double check the lighter ships, I put all in fron Alden, and checked starting with the big boys vs the troms. Need to check all.

tater

shouldnt that be the other way around? a cruiser should be easier to sink than a BB

[miner1436]

Work has started on the model.

[tater]

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

shouldnt that be the other way around? a cruiser should be easier to sink than a BB

I didn't make that up, that is what happened in RL.

The most hits survived by a BB was only that there were few attacks on BBs. No BB was torpedoed by a sub with 4, so they might have survived. More CAs were attacked, so there is more data. <shrug>

No akizuki DD hit with 1 fish sank, for example, and there were several hits like that.

well i feel it is more realistic to base the in game results you get to match the ships class, construction, armor, and design of the super structure.

i discount the real life log results for the reason i feel they are not a good enough sample to get a true image of the averages and often the record keeping was reporting what they did and not necessarilly what was needed. but i still think they give you a good guide to follow.

even if it was true in real life results, i dont want the game to have a CL need more torps to sink than a BB. this is where reality should yeild to the game having a properly balanced feeling.

[tater]

Variability was reality. Why would you think a CV with a fixed DM would always be harder to sink than a BB, BTW? Many CVs sank with 1 fish, usually due to uncontrolled fires.

As for the non-Shokakus taking many, I capsize them and they sink with virtually any single hit other than the extreme bow/stern. Any hit. Actually, IMO the hardest to sink I think is Taiyo (from back when I was testing her).

The goal for any such DM mod should be as much variability as possible since in RL, some ships took quite a bit of damage and survived. Shinano, in fact, could very well have survived. So if a given clas never sunk to one hit, but other classes (similar) did, then it seems reasonable that it should be possible for a 1-hit sinking. If the average was 3, then so be it.

I guess I'm totally against pulling chances out of thin air, they must be calibrated to something, and RL is it.

[tater]

CVEs were bizarre. Chuyo took 4 without sinking, Unyo took 3. No CVE sank with 1 hit that we know of, since the fewest hits on a sinking were 2. So I'd say a 1-hit should be possible, a two hit pretty likely. That said, absorbing 3-4 should be possible, too, if very rare for 4 (ideally).

Some CVs took 4 hits, others sank with 1, lol.

these are my average results for stock 1.5 with no mods based on a single mission target test of stationary sub shooting stationary targets using auto targeting to get identical hit locations each time. each ship was sunk 5 times to get the average results.

warship stock ************************************************** ****************************
yamato 10
kongo 6
ise battleship 4
fuso battleship 2
fleet carriers 3 (shokaku just 1 due to bad damage model)
heavy cruisers 3
escort carriers 2
light cruiser 2
seaplane tender 2
destroyers 1-2

merchant stock ************************************************** ****************************
Hog island 3
large modern oiler 3
medium old comp 2
large old split 2
large modern comp 2
small old oiler 2
old medium oiler 2
small passenger 1
old liner 1
modern liner 1
small old merchant 1
medium modern comp 2
medium split 2
medium old comp 2
small modern comp 1

as you can see, except for the fuso looking a little weak, the stock settings look pretty balanced to me and that is why i want them to stay balanced that way.

use my torpedo test missions if you want to check my results http://files.filefront.com/WEBSTERs+.../fileinfo.html

[tater]

Shooting the same place is a bogus test if you understand the DM.

The stock DM has HITPOINTS.

Say, 600 for a BB (it's 500 or 600, can't remember). The range for a torp is like 170-230 or something. You could hit the tip of the prop that many times, and they'd still sink. Each hit subtracts HP, when it hits zero, BOOM.

BTW, I'm surprised you found a CL that took an average of 2 fish, they always sink with 1 for me as reliably as DDs. Funny that Kongo takes 6 when the real thing sank with 3, lol.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by tater

Kako claimed 4 hits, but the TROM says 3 hits.

I need to update my spreadsheet, it was straight typing from Alden, that's why I was saying if anything the numbers would be high since claimed hits were higher than real hits, likely. Alden was more concerned with confirming the results of the attacks and targets, and only lists the shots fired/hits from the patrol reports.

Hmmpf, you're going to find this funny, but the S-44's skipper also claimed 4 hits:

"Heard four torpedoes explode starting 35 seconds after firing first torpedo. Having heard torpedo explosions at short range before, there was no doubt about these. The surprising thing is that all four hit - sure is good to have a long target to shoot at."

:rotfl: