Disgusting act of cruelty

[Sean C]

It seems that more often than not, due to the nature of our prison system and the prisons themselves, people come out as worse criminals than when they went in. The harsh treatment they experience within (however well deserved) and the company of the dregs of society appears to have the opposite of a rehabilitative effect. Perhaps this jurisdiction recognizes this and is trying another way to guide those who are just beginning their criminal career back onto the right path.

Don't get me wrong...I believe those who torture and kill innocent beings such as children and animals belong in the lowest circle of hell. But, if there is a chance to turn them around by trying something other than what we've been doing, then I'm all for giving it a shot. Sometimes people who do evil things just haven't had anyone in their life who cared enough to show them how to deal with their problems. If, however, they turn out to be real psychopaths...well, then I say: to hell with them. Lock 'em up and throw away the key or just relieve the planet of them altogether.

Just my 2¢.

[Reece]

They do have juvenile detention centers here in Australia, he should atleast spend some time there!! My 2¢.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

You are comparing game (s) that although predicated on things that in really happened to acts of cruelty in real life. There is no comparison.



Markus didn't say anything wrong.

Ahh, he didn't say anything wrong, because that would require him to break moral or legal code, I merely point out that in both cases the nature of his experience is the same - he experiences violence indirectly, through the medium.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Ahh, he didn't say anything wrong, because that would require him to break moral or legal code, I merely point out that in both cases the nature of his experience is the same - he experiences violence indirectly, through the medium.

They are most certainly not the same. One is a game and the other is real. Should one be held accountable by legal statutes and / or moral codes if one engages in video game playing and destroys a fictional character ? If by playing a Computer PC game and destroying ships and the like and no one in real life is harmed, where is the harm ? I might remind you that you are also member of this forum like Markus and have also destroyed your fair share of ships.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

They are most certainly not the same. One is a game and the other is real. Should one be held accountable by legal statutes and / or moral codes if one engages in video game playing and destroys a fictional character ? If by playing a Computer PC game and destroying ships and the like and no one in real life is harmed, where is the harm ? I might remind you that you are also member of this forum like Markus and have also destroyed your fair share of ships.

One is a news article depicting a real event while the other is a computer game depicting a real event. Both are informational medium. My point was knitpicking his statement in the sense that his phrasing implied that informational medium rather than event itself made him feel pain.

And no, one should not be penalised for consuming informational medium.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

One is a news article depicting a real event while the other is a computer game depicting a real event. Both are informational medium. My point was knitpicking his statement in the sense that his phrasing implied that informational medium rather than event itself made him feel pain.

And no, one should not be penalised for consuming informational medium.

Wrong again. One is " a news article reporting a real life event. " i.e a defenseless horse being cruelly shot and killed with an arrow that was minding it's own business and that should have been safe in it's own compound. Markus wasn't phrasing anything except in your mind. You are saying the shooting of a horse was " depicted ? " Further, why " knitpick " at all ?

With regards to consuming informational medium, in years past, Soviet Russia " penalized " it's masses most severely for " consuming " any news except that from Pravda, Tass or any other officially sanctioned news outlets.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Wrong again. One is " a news article reporting a real life event. " i.e a defenseless horse being cruelly shot and killed with an arrow that was minding it's own business and that should have been safe in it's own compound. Markus wasn't phrasing anything except in your mind. You are saying the shooting of a horse was " depicted ? " Further, why " knitpick " at all ?

With regards to consuming informational medium, in years past, Soviet Russia " penalized " it's masses most severely for " consuming " any news except that from Pravda, Tass or any other officially sanctioned news outlets.

Sure, as he did not experience the event directly, same way he did not experience sinking merchant ships (though, to be correct, those are my assumptions rather than established facts).

And yet USSR no longer exists, nor do I support such a policy, hence I am not sure how that is relevant, except possibly as a veiled character assasination?

[mapuc]

Thank you for your reply to my comments.

I understand ikalugin's point of view.

However he doesn't know my own ROE-Which was very simpel-No attack against civilian ships.

Only attacking warship and merchant.(Merchant was, as I saw it, a part of the navy/military) and those who worked on a merchant did this freely, they wasn't forced to and they knew what could happen.

Furthermore I'm a pacifist, not 100 %, ´cause if someone threaten my mom, sisters, nephew, niece I would neutralise the threat. Not killing the person, only neutralise. and only doing as much harm, until he isn't a threat anymore.

When it comes to animal, I feel pain and helplessness, when I read stories like this one. about 0,001 % of me think that a good old beating would learn these people to behave, while the other 99.999 % of me, know beating isn't the solution, other things must be done, so the person learn to respect all living, even animal in the future.

Markus

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Sure, as he did not experience the event directly, same way he did not experience sinking merchant ships (though, to be correct, those are my assumptions rather than established facts).

And yet USSR no longer exists, nor do I support such a policy, hence I am not sure how that is relevant, except possibly as a veiled character assasination?

Rest assured, It was certainly not a character assassination, veiled or otherwise. I have found some of your posts to be informative and insightful. You had said in post # 20 and I quote: " And no, one should not be penalized for consuming informational medium. "

I merely pointed out in Soviet Russia that news in Russia was limited to what Tass or Pravda told the citizenry there. Western news, clothes, music and other consumables were forbidden there except to the party elite and those connected through black markets or other means. I was simply commenting on what you said. Under Putin, little has changed there as people who challenge the Putin Govt usually don't meet with a good ending. Then again, Putin was KGB.

With regards to Markus not experiencing the horse being shot, what possible difference could that make ? The rest of us who commented in this section of the forum including you and myself didn't experience it either but you chose to single out Markus and question him and his feelings on it. That's why I took offense. Markus simply voiced what we all were thinking and saying.

As far as sinking merchant ships, how does that differ from slaying dragons or other fictional characters ? It's well established sinking merchant ships is what U-boats did. If one is going for realism in their game play, that's what they do. For crying out loud, it's a game and nothing more.

You may want to consider since this is an International forum and people here come from all corners of this world that it's easy for things to get lost in translation.

Originally Posted by mapuc

Thank you for your reply to my comments.

I understand ikalugin's point of view.

However he doesn't know my own ROE-Which was very simpel-No attack against civilian ships.

Only attacking warship and merchant.(Merchant was, as I saw it, a part of the navy/military) and those who worked on a merchant did this freely, they wasn't forced to and they knew what could happen.

Furthermore I'm a pacifist, not 100 %, ´cause if someone threaten my mom, sisters, nephew, niece I would neutralise the threat. Not killing the person, only neutralise. and only doing as much harm, until he isn't a threat anymore.

When it comes to animal, I feel pain and helplessness, when I read stories like this one. about 0,001 % of me think that a good old beating would learn these people to behave, while the other 99.999 % of me, know beating isn't the solution, other things must be done, so the person learn to respect all living, even animal in the future.

Markus

Markus, you certainly don't need to trouble or explain yourself for how you play your games. That's your business. The same goes for how you feel on a certain subject as your opinion along with Ikalugin's and that of everyone else is just as important and relevant as the others.

You had mentioned respect Markus and I largely felt Ikalugin wasn't respecting your viewpoint or you for that matter. You are right in what you said and a little respect goes a long way. Thanks for weighing in.


Enough said.

[ikalugin]

Good to hear that it is not an attack.

However the Soviet period is essentially irrelevant in this regard as I was born in 1992 and missed it.

As to the current time line it is easy to disprove this:

I was simply commenting on what you said. Under Putin, little has changed there as people who challenge the Putin Govt usually don't meet with a good ending. Then again, Putin was KGB.

statement by presenting various examples of operating opposition media, such this: https://echo.msk.ru/ radio station (which is an opposion radio station owned by Gazprom media) and https://www.novayagazeta.ru/ newspaper as examples of anti-Putin (and anti-establishment in general) federal media outlets operating legally in Russia, there are many more. In fact not only do we have media with opposition views or foreighn roots (such as https://www.vedomosti.ru/ newspaper which is in alliance with the WSJ and FT), we even have VoA and RFE operating in Russia, which are cold war era propaganda outlets.

Overall I think that the nature of the Russian "regime" unfortunately is not well presented by foreighn observers (especially dissidents).

As to it being a game, sure it is a game and sinking civilians is no different to slaying dragons, that is - a person should not be held responsible for his ingame actions (except maybe when one say drives a minor to suicide in an online game). However the games does depict the historic events in a much simmilar way non interactive media (films, books, old news articles, in fact the later are sometimes used in the game to add flavor, no?) would and as such I view it as an object of the same nature as a present day news article.

[Jimbuna]

Back OT: The youth should be made to face up to the consequences of his actions, whatever the law allows/calls for.