Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE

[h.sie]

@Tessa: Sorry for late reply. Yes, you need an unmodified sh3.exe. The patcher only modifies the sh3.exe and no other file. But if there are other files needed (V15D and later needs CameraBehaviuor.act), they come in an JSGME ready format and thus must be enabled via JSGME.

@Silent Ace: Thank you for your research report. The most interesting part is (because it's about german subs, the rest is american/russian):

Record time remaining in the submerged condition for WW2 reached the German submarine U-258 (Type 7C) and it is 38 hours. Other times the length of stay under water a submarine U-744 (Type 7C) and it is 30 hours.

Could you please point out from where you got your information above (Link, Reference). Thank you very much.


@ALL: Any other historical information about diving times?

h.sie

[h.sie]

Originally Posted by LGN1

Do you think it might be possible to also connect the internal torpedo reloading with the storm condition so that you can only reload internal torpedoes when submerged (in a storm)?

This I don't understand. Why should it only be possible to reload internal torps when submerged and in storm????

Originally Posted by LGN1

Concerning diving when reloading external torpedoes: It might be a good idea to increase the dive time considerably (via the flooding time in the sim files) when reloading so if you want to dive it takes a long time.

Good idea. I think the most realistic way would be to cause some heavy flooding and some lost torpedoes when dive during external reload, but that will be hard to program, so your idea could be easier to do. What delay for diving could be realistic? 10 minutes?

h.sie

[Delareon]

Originally Posted by h.sie

This I don't understand. Why should it only be possible to reload internal torps when submerged and in storm????

Well i think he wants to say that IF you are in a storm, reloading of internal tubes should only be possible when submerged (Anything with external tubes should also be impossible though).

[Hartmann]

Originally Posted by h.sie

This I don't understand. Why should it only be possible to reload internal torps when submerged and in storm????


Good idea. I think the most realistic way would be to cause some heavy flooding and some lost torpedoes when dive during external reload, but that will be hard to program, so your idea could be easier to do. What delay for diving could be realistic? 10 minutes?

h.sie

Perhaps a penalty of 2 minutes could be enough

Drop the Torpedo , retire cables ,and close the hatch, the crane can be left mounted .

[h.sie]

(deleted)

[LGN1]

Originally Posted by h.sie

This I don't understand. Why should it only be possible to reload internal torps when submerged and in storm????

Good idea. I think the most realistic way would be to cause some heavy flooding and some lost torpedoes when dive during external reload, but that will be hard to program, so your idea could be easier to do. What delay for diving could be realistic? 10 minutes?

h.sie

Hi h.sie,

I wanted to say what Delareon has written. In a storm you can only reload torpedoes when submerged, i.e., you can only reload internal torpedoes and you need to be submerged (your boat must not move/roll too much).

I think a penalty of 10 min would be fine. Depending on the reloading status it might be 2 min as Hartmann has written (at the beginning and end of the reloading process) or perhaps even more than 10 min (if torpedo is partly in the sub ). I guess in real-life it varied a lot.

I some old thread someone came up with 10 min as a house rule.

Maybe someone knows if it ever happened that a boat had to dive during external reloading

Guter Rutsch, LGN1

[LGN1]

Originally Posted by Silent Ace

Record time remaining in the submerged condition for WW2 reached the German submarine U-258 (Type 7C) and it is 38 hours.
Other times the length of stay under water a submarine U-744 (Type 7C) and it is 30 hours.

@Silent Ace: Do you know why U-258 surfaced? Did they have to surface or did they surface because there was no danger anymore?

Cheers, LGN1

[h.sie]

Happy new year to all!

POLL / Discussion:

What should I program if the reloading process of external torpedoes is disturbed by storm?

A) Pause the reloading process, so that it can be continued at the same state after the storm.

B) Reset the reloading process, so that the crew has to start reloading from the beginning when the storm ended.

----------
I prefer B)
----------

[CherryHarbey]

Originally Posted by h.sie

Happy new year to all!

POLL / Discussion:

What should I program if the reloading process of external torpedoes is disturbed by storm?

A) Pause the reloading process, so that it can be continued at the same state after the storm.

B) Reset the reloading process, so that the crew has to start reloading from the beginning when the storm ended.

----------
I prefer B)
----------

between the two options given I would say B.
Can I add in option C, continue reloading process but bring in random chances of torpedo loss/crew injuries/crew fatalities.
Is it not just one of those jobs that you would not start in bad weather but once started see through to the end regardless of how the weather changes?

[Sailor Steve]

I keep rereading the instructions and being too scared to try anything that serious, but I really want to try this. Pardon me for being stupid (which I don't deny), but how do I do step one:

Step 1:
Create empty Working Directory somewhere on your Disk (where you have write permission.)

[h.sie]

@CH: I had the same idea like you: If the boat dives during reloading, some compartments will be flooded and crew injured or die. but this reqires an menu option to warn the crew to hurry up with reloading/interrupt reloding process, which is very hard to do. And: I don't want to spent much effort to program a situation/option (dive during reload externals) which a kaleun would never choose.

So the much more easy solution is to simply delay the diving by a certain time, which is hard enough.

[h.sie]

@SailorSteve: You are one of the most popular persons here, and I'm sure there is someone who offers help by doing the patching for you. If not: I'll do that.

If you don't know how to create a directory, I strongly suggest to ask someone for help. Not everyone is a computer expert, and not being able to create a directory has nothing to do with stupidity.

h.sie

[Silent Ace]

@Silent Ace: Thank you for your research report. The most interesting part is (because it's about german subs, the rest is american/russian):

Record time remaining in the submerged condition for WW2 reached the German submarine U-258 (Type 7C) and it is 38 hours. Other times the length of stay under water a submarine U-744 (Type 7C) and it is 30 hours.

Could you please point out from where you got your information above (Link, Reference). Thank you very much.

This is part of my sources of information and there are even books in PDF format as well as military and naval Commons from the public library.

specifically here:

Originally Posted by LGN1

@Silent Ace: Do you know why U-258 surfaced? Did they have to surface or did they surface because there was no danger anymore?

Cheers, LGN1

have emerged because they had stopped a threat to them, but given the fact that the submarines are normally carried out during the war and an average of 20 hours when compared with other data presented here think that their maximum stay under water was 48 hours and the American and British submarines of similar displacement and number of crew members.

[Magic1111]

Originally Posted by h.sie

Happy new year to all!

POLL / Discussion:

What should I program if the reloading process of external torpedoes is disturbed by storm?

A) Pause the reloading process, so that it can be continued at the same state after the storm.

B) Reset the reloading process, so that the crew has to start reloading from the beginning when the storm ended.

----------
I prefer B)
----------

I vote for Option B) !!!

Best regards,
Magic

[Stiebler]

@H.sie:
[Happy New Year!]

Edit: In Sh3Sim.act+30DF5 one can find some interesting code. According to this code the current depth of the Sub is coded in float format and gets more negative when sub is deeper under water, so it's something like a Z-position. if you set it to +10, the sub can fly. Cool. There is also a depth change value dZ. If it's positive, the z-value is rising, otherwise falling.

Sh3Sim.act+30DF5:
fld [esp+30] // Loads depth change value dZ
fadd [esi+b4] // Adds dZ to current Z value, Z := Z + dZ
fstp [esi+b4] // stores new Z-value.

Now I need to know how this depth change value dZ in [esp+30] is calculated.

Many thanks for this information.

But why do you need to know how dZ is calculated?

Much simpler just to insert some code with a test for the silent-running state.
If true, then subtract a small value 'delta' from the new Z-value. Otherwise, leave the Z-value alone.

That seems to provide a complete solution. The only issue is how large the value should be for 'delta', and I think only testing will provide the answer.

Concerning problems of reloading torpedoes:
1. I think 10 minutes to dive is correct, if the reloading is interrupted by an attack.
2. I do not think that there is a problem with the issue of bad weather interrupting the reloading. The reason is due to the difficulty to the player of discovering when the weather is good enough to start reloading. The player, using time compression, will always start reloading long after the weather is good enough. Therefore, it is fair (equitable) as compensation that reloading should be allowed to continue even if bad weather commences.

Stiebler.