[REL] Playable Russian Subs

[CaptainX3]

Originally Posted by MR. Wood

The Upholder class had a beautiful model right before the last major update I wanna say 2 updates back any chance of getting that back. Anyone think about making a USS Parch 80s model.

If you're referring to the model with the top rudder fins and such, when the devs updated a bunch of sub models for 1.08, some of the fins like the ones used on the Upholder were re-spaced. This has caused those fins to be spaced too far apart, so when we tried to add them to our subs, either one side or the other floated in midair, and we couldn't fix it. Because of this, some of the extras on the models were removed.

Originally Posted by boppitdoppit

Every time I download the mod and paste it into my game I get the same error saying im missing usn_mk45_description in my language_en folder
I add that in and then it says that im missing another description in my language_en folder. I don't know what to do about it please help!

Update your game to 1.08c in Steam (or buy it if you're not using a legitimate copy). The mod will not work on older versions.

[Rufus Shinra]

Originally Posted by XPETIT

I

Here you can find the URl to download override directory woth tromphant include.
http://xavier.petit.pagesperso-orang...s/override.zip

And here the good URl for my net site.
http://xavier.petit.pagesperso-orange.fr//
Thanks a lot CaptainX3. And i hope you could keep it in your futur update.

Greetings.

Xavier.

Fellow French here, first of all, great job on Le Triomphant, but I feel its performances are a tad exagerrated here. IRL, it has 18 torpedoes and missiles (so, 22 with the tubes themselves), not 42 or so and its speed of 40 kts is a bit astounding: it should be reduced to something like 32 (the official speed is 25, but we all know the difference between official speeds and real ones), given that it is designed first and foremost for absolute stealth rather than speed.

Also, would it be possible to switch the TASM payload to TLAM, to simulate Scalp Naval? After all, our Navy doesn't have a TASM equivalent.

[LogicalLobster]

Why does the Gotland and other known super quiet subs have 130db selfnoise? Seems way high?

[CaptainX3]

Originally Posted by LogicalLobster

Why does the Gotland and other known super quiet subs have 130db selfnoise? Seems way high?

SELF NOISE SCALE

Under 75: Undetectable by any sensor
75-100: Barely detectable by top sensors
101-119: Extremely Quiet
120-130: Very Quiet
131-140: Quiet
140-159: Semi-Noisy
160 And Up: Noisy

The Improved Virginia is the quietest sub in the mod (Not counting the Red October) at 104db. Nothing will be set lower than that in the mod.

Diesel subs are known to be ultra quiet in real life when on battery, but that's not feasible for gameplay, unless you just want a cheat sub. We've balanced noise levels for all subs as best we can.

[REDDQ]

Originally Posted by CaptainX3

unless you just want a cheat sub

No need, Red October and Imp Virginia already fill that role :P

Seriously though, I think the question was about why Gotland has self noise rating on a Romeo level.

[LogicalLobster]

Originally Posted by REDDQ

No need, Red October and Imp Virginia already fill that role :P

Seriously though, I think the question was about why Gotland has self noise rating on a Romeo level.

Yea exactly.. Ok dont make the aip subs literally undetectable.. but why have a ton of nuclear subs be way quieter than them? That makes no sense.

How is it balanced for big fast nuclear subs to be below 130, but a small slow gotland would be unbalanced at that noise level?

[CaptainX3]

Originally Posted by LogicalLobster

Yea exactly.. Ok dont make the aip subs literally undetectable.. but why have a ton of nuclear subs be way quieter than them? That makes no sense.

How is it balanced for big fast nuclear subs to be below 130, but a small slow gotland would be unbalanced at that noise level?

So you're suggesting that we make the nukes noisy and the diesels quiet? That makes no sense either.

Or are you saying we should make all subs quiet? Kinda kills gameplay, don't you think?

In gameplay terms, nukes are quieter than most diesels. We gave no plans to change self noise levels, but you're welcome to do it in your own copy of the mod.

[LogicalLobster]

Originally Posted by CaptainX3

So you're suggesting that we make the nukes noisy and the diesels quiet? That makes no sense either.

Or are you saying we should make all subs quiet? Kinda kills gameplay, don't you think?

In gameplay terms, nukes are quieter than most diesels. We gave no plans to change self noise levels, but you're welcome to do it in your own copy of the mod.

I know I can change it and im not trying to argue with you, or get you to change your mod.. I just really want to understand your reasoning.



Why not make subs reflect their actual noise level, at least in relation to eachother? Why can a nuke sub be 104, and a aip sub be at best 130, when in reality the aip boats are quieter? Having Aip subs be way louder than a ton of nukes just makes the entire thing arbitrary and not based on reality at all.

[Rufus Shinra]

Question for @CaptainX3: how quiet do you think Triomphant and Vanguard SSBN should be given that they were quiet enough to accidentally bump into each other in the middle of the Atlantic?

[CaptainX3]

Originally Posted by LogicalLobster

I know I can change it and im not trying to argue with you, or get you to change your mod.. I just really want to understand your reasoning.



Why not make subs reflect their actual noise level, at least in relation to eachother? Why can a nuke sub be 104, and a aip sub be at best 130, when in reality the aip boats are quieter? Having Aip subs be way louder than a ton of nukes just makes the entire thing arbitrary and not based on reality at all.

The reasoning behind it is because the game was never intended to have modern, quiet diesels. It's a Cold War era game featuring older, louder diesels and newer, quieter nukes.

Because of the way sound is modeled in the game, we either have to stick to the nukes being quieter than the diesels, which is how the game is supposed to work, or basically ever modern diesel would be as quiet as the Virginia class, meaning that there's no skill involved in gameplay, it's pure luck as to who detects who first.

Numbers in the mod were based off of the devs original numbers for vanilla subs, and we expanded from there. If we changed the numbers to ultra realistic, then modern diesels would be completely undetectable, because it is well known most of them are completely silent at under 5 knots while running on batteries.

The only thing we could do is lower the noise levels of diesels but increase the sonar suites of the nukes so much that they'd be cheats, because very few people are going to accept that a Kilo can defeat a Virginia in conventional warfare. Since snorkeling and battery levels are not yet modeled in the game, there's no way to make diesels work as they should. To match realism, either they have to be silent, or they have to be modeled as if they're running fast enough to actually be detectable.

Basically, we've done the best we could with what we have to work with, and we're going to stick with the original vanilla game premise that modern nukes are quieter than modern diesels, even if this isn't quite 100% realistic. It's a balance between realism and gameplay, and in terms of modding, gameplay will always win, at least in my mods. If all of the subs are as quiet as the Virginia, what's the point of having nearly 100 subs? You'd end up with identical stats with nothing but different looking models. It would get quite boring quite quickly.

[CaptainX3]

Originally Posted by Rufus Shinra

Question for @CaptainX3: how quiet do you think Triomphant and Vanguard SSBN should be given that they were quiet enough to accidentally bump into each other in the middle of the Atlantic?

I did not design the U.K. Subs, that was done by someone who was actually in the British navy, so you'd have to ask him.

Again, it's the same problem... if we make all of the subs super quiet, there's no skill involved, it's nothing but luck. That might be the case in real life, but it makes for lousy gameplay. Might as well just play a slot machine.

One sub type has to be better than the other. In the case of the mod, the nukes are better and the diesels are at a disadvantage.

[CaptainX3]

MOD UPDATED!

[dsroyall56]

Great update as always, but requiring the Override folder to be deleted every time you put out an update is a PITA on any modern Windows system. That's because only the built-in administrator account can delete items in the Program Files(x86) directory tree. Not even an account marked as an administrator can do it. Steam defaults to putting everything in that directory tree, and, while it lets you install games on other drives, I haven't had good experience with that.

I trust no one here is silly enough to use the built-in administrator account for everyday use, that's literally unsafe hex.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by dsroyall56

Great update as always, but requiring the Override folder to be deleted every time you put out an update is a PITA on any modern Windows system. That's because only the built-in administrator account can delete items in the Program Files(x86) directory tree. Not even an account marked as an administrator can do it. Steam defaults to putting everything in that directory tree, and, while it lets you install games on other drives, I haven't had good experience with that.

I trust no one here is silly enough to use the built-in administrator account for everyday use, that's literally unsafe hex.

There's a pretty simple way around that, don't install in the Program Files(x86) directory. I install all my games on my D: drive to avoid any problems with windows. And if you don't have multiple drives/partitions, installing Steam to C:\Games is the next best thing.

Another option is to use JSGME. Its versatility makes it my program of choice for adding mods to many of my games. It's easy to install and uninstall and you can have as many copies installed as you want where you want.

[Caffeine]

Hello folks.
As Cold Waters has been also released on the Mac OS X platform, I would like to ask if the mod works on it?
I feel (guess) it will not but nothing as ask to be sure.
Thanks