The old time enigma

[Greystone]

From what I gather, a lot of you have run into out-of-whack temporal disturbances, as I have, like the sun rising at 1am, setting at noon, etc.
I did a search here and ran across some discussions on the topic and, being a bit of a simpleton, my eyes glazed over just scanning the various discussions on the subject.
I really have no desire to even attempt to jump through tedious mental & cognitive hoops (for me) to try and ascertain what the actual local time is when playing the game.
What would solve the problem though, for me, is knowing what time of day it is for the AI.
If the sun is high in the sky, but the clock says 2am, does the AI see it as daylight also, or do they see the world as it'd look at 2am?
Or, if it's black as pitch out, can I count on the AI having a hard time seeing me even though the time is shown as 3pm?
As usual, thanks for any help..

[propbeanie]

Well, speaking from a metaphysical point of view: maybe...

That's what Front Runner was getting at in his thread "Base Time 2018". It has been discussed before in a few other threads, but I don't think anyone has gotten to the root of the problem yet, like Front Runner has. The game keeps really accurate track of the time of day (or night) - but only under certain circumstances.

The game engine is basically SH3, from 2005, so you can say it's probably 2003 software technology, if not older. The idea of using something truly "stable" to keep track of time of day was not well-programmed for future computing. With computers that are as fast and efficient as they are today, the games' (SH3, 4 & 5) get out of whack when running at "real" time. They can draw the screen at a much higher rate than the computers of 10 years ago could. Since the use of the higher Time Compression settings basically negates the effect of screen refresh rate, and hence "time of day" being tied to it, the effect is not seen.

Basically, what Front Runner describes is a cumulative effect, where after playing the game for some time, sunset and sunrise (and the moon phases) all get out of whack, and you might be seeing the game as representing night time, but the game AI is seeing it as daylight, such that it seems the enemy is either clairvoyant, or has a new top-secret radar that the US doesn't know about... So "yes Margaret, you can be attacked at what you think is night time, by an enemy AI that thinks it's day time." One way to alleviate the issue is to Save the game, exit, come back in, and load the Save - presto change-oh, everything is back in sync... What a "fix", eh? Like so many other of the games' fixes...

Using the nVidia Control Panel, if you have an nVidia card, or maybe the ATI / AMD CCC for one of their cards, and you might be able to set the game to not go beyond using 30fps (Frames Per Second) when it "draws" the game assets, such as ships or sea or land, etc. That seems to be the solution. Conversely, if you have an older computer, one that you can't get above 30fps anyway, no worries - that might actually be "cutting-edge technology" for the games.

Maybe we can talk Front Runner into doing a picture-laden tutorial on setting up the nVidia control panel for this...

[Greystone]

propbeanie; Thank you!... Yes, I recall seeing Front Runner's posting on this, and remember admiring his insight and persistence to get to the bottom of the time issue, but couldn't really grasp anything beyond the admiration part, partly because I'm getting a bit long in the tooth and my senior moments are turning into background. Also, I just want to play the bloody game and not spend 80% of my time researching & tinkering to get it to run right. I sure picked the right game to do that, eh?
Thanks to your breakdown, I now have a basic understanding of what's going on. The reference to saving & reloading the save is a godsend. No, wait; scratch that.. I just started the game, loaded my last save, and the sun is where you'd expect it to be around 3 or 4 pm and the time shows 22:30. Saved that, exited, and reloaded and all's the same as before; no change. (throws hands in air)
I don't know, maybe I'll just assume the AI sees everything & dive whenever I detect any of 'em; pretend I'm playing Silent Prey 4.


Addendum: I just became aware of Front Runner's and propbeanie's newest posts on the subject, where I'll turn my gaze whenever I think I can handle more "research and tinkering".

[propbeanie]

If you have an nVidia card, that Steam link in Front Runner's post applies, and is relatively easy to step through, even for us more "senior" er uh, wanderers... in spite of "background" and tinnitus...

Your Save didn't "correct" the time, eh?... What are you playing, Stock or any mods?... It would definitely be easier if the game had a "Zulu -10" or whatever designation, wouldn't it?

[Greystone]

Hey propbeanie.. Yup, the save, go out, & reload the same save didn't give the expected result. I'm playing stock SH4 with the following mods:


BBC World (for the radio)
No Surface Hydrophone (an attempt to correct getting hydrophone readings while on the surface)
Less Water Limber Holes
Webster's Underwater Visibility for v1.5
" Better Waterline Colors for v1.5
" Better Sub Marker


I'm running it on Win7 with an nVidia GTX 750Ti
I have the Vertical Sync checkbox checked in Options
Have the game installed in C:\SH4


I did go to the Steam link in Front Runner's post and followed the instructions; you're right, it was a rather simple affair..


When I went back in, the situation was the same and that made sense, to me anyway; I mean, the save is the same save and I wouldn't expect that lowering the fps would alter the parameters within the save. I figure, if the prevailing theory is right, the time discrepancy will now stay the same as opposed to continually altering as it had before the change I just made with the nVidia Control Panel. I'm hoping that, at the end of my current mission, somewhere, somehow, through the transition from the end of the patrol, my time in port, and my departure into the following patrol, the game'll revert to displaying the correct time. One can only hope..


Tinnitus? You've got tinnitus? Ah, a kindred soul... I drove a cab in San Francisco for 35 years and about 30 years ago, some idiot driver in a Mercedes, blasted her horn about 4 feet from my ears and I've had a high-pitched sound in my ears 24-7 ever since. Lovely, ain't it?


Again, thanks for your generous help.

[propbeanie]

Being back at your home port, should definitely (in theory ) fix the discrepancy. When I was younger and working catch-as-catch-can in the late 70s early 80s, I had one noisy job after another ($2 an hour cash). In the late 80s, I did construction. Between chainsaws, jack-hammers, boom trucks and all sorts of what-not, all I hear now is the wife (hopefully) and a steady "hisssss". At least it's in stereo, and if I turn my CCR up loud enough, they still sound just as good as 1969 / 70...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Being back at your home port, should definitely (in theory ) fix the discrepancy. When I was younger and working catch-as-catch-can in the late 70s early 80s, I had one noisy job after another ($2 an hour cash). In the late 80s, I did construction. Between chainsaws, jack-hammers, boom trucks and all sorts of what-not, all I hear now is the wife (hopefully) and a steady "hisssss". At least it's in stereo, and if I turn my CCR up loud enough, they still sound just as good as 1969 / 70...

turn that crap off.
while we were ducking charlie and mosquitoes, the fogertys were giving aid and comfort to the enemy. right there with hanoi jane.
dont listen to that crap....and i am being civil when i call it crap.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by Greystone

Hey propbeanie.. Yup, the save, go out, & reload the same save didn't give the expected result. I'm playing stock SH4 with the following mods:


BBC World (for the radio)
No Surface Hydrophone (an attempt to correct getting hydrophone readings while on the surface)
Less Water Limber Holes
Webster's Underwater Visibility for v1.5
" Better Waterline Colors for v1.5
" Better Sub Marker


I'm running it on Win7 with an nVidia GTX 750Ti
I have the Vertical Sync checkbox checked in Options
Have the game installed in C:\SH4


I did go to the Steam link in Front Runner's post and followed the instructions; you're right, it was a rather simple affair..


When I went back in, the situation was the same and that made sense, to me anyway; I mean, the save is the same save and I wouldn't expect that lowering the fps would alter the parameters within the save. I figure, if the prevailing theory is right, the time discrepancy will now stay the same as opposed to continually altering as it had before the change I just made with the nVidia Control Panel. I'm hoping that, at the end of my current mission, somewhere, somehow, through the transition from the end of the patrol, my time in port, and my departure into the following patrol, the game'll revert to displaying the correct time. One can only hope..

Again, thanks for your generous help.

I haven’t tested that within a save game. Let us know the results of starting a new patrol when making the recommended Vertical Sync changes while in career. Theoretically, your next patrol should start the BT Clock anew.
Keep in mind that there will still be a Time Zone difference between your “Base” and your “Patrol Area”. For example Pearl Harbor Base Time would be different than the observed Base Time in Empire Waters. The old threads about Base Time cover this very well.
I kind of tripped over discovering this issue because up until recently I had almost always chose a Pearl Harbor career start and basically ignored the own ship Base Time Clock because the east west time zone changes fudged it up anyway. Well, I chose a Brisbane start and my assigned area was the Bismarck Sea, within the same Base Time Zone. After playing several days at 1x (Vertical Sync in game off and “balls out” frame rate 240 fps) to get there, I noticed that Sunset/Sunrise, Moonset/Moonrise were way off! Like hours off.
My sub is in darkest night, base time shows it should be daylight hours and I’m getting attacked by aircraft. Whoa! That’s when I put my thinking cap on and somewhere along the line of experimentation I discovered the link between Vertical Sync On/Off and the SS/SR,MS/MR error differential.
Currently I am on my 4th day underway with the recommended settings, (in game vertical sync off, nVidia control panel settings forced 1/2 refresh rate 30 FPS, and adaptive vertical sync on through the nVidia control panel.) My 4th day sunrise was 11 to 12 minutes late vs Almanac. I have noticed that the sunsets are tending to drift later. My 3rd day sunset was 20 minutes late while the following Moonset was only 11 minutes late. Very acceptable after almost 4 days at 1x play.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by mark bonamer

turn that crap off.
while we were ducking charlie and mosquitoes, the fogertys were giving aid and comfort to the enemy. right there with hanoi jane.
dont listen to that crap....and i am being civil when i call it crap.

Uh...what? I wasn't aware of them going to North Vietnam...ever. John got a draft notice but joined the Army Reserve.

[Greystone]

Front Runner; Yes, I'll let you know what happens with the time thing after returning to base, hanging out, and embarking on next patrol. I've still got 6 torpedoes left and the patrol memo says I still haven't completed the current mission (sink merchant shipping)

P.S. Thanks for your efforts on the crazy time readings...

[KaleunMarco]

so, 930 am in the Caribbean in August, even though it is dark, the enemy sees me as if it is daylight?

couldn't this be a solar eclipse?

[hauangua]

A question maybe a little "stupid"
But installing the "mod Antilag"

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=2871

setting fps limits 30 can solve the problem?

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by hauangua

A question maybe a little "stupid"
But installing the "mod Antilag"

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=2871

setting fps limits 30 can solve the problem?

There's more than one way to skin a cat. This might just work! Thanks for digging this up.
However 30 fps doesn't "solve" the problem, it reduces its cumulative effects.
"Lag" isn't the problem. That being said, one might be able to disable the render ahead portion of the app and set the frame limiter to 30 fps instead of using nVidida Inspector, which gives much more control over the graphics card settings.

I was unaware that one could limit fps through D39 config. This mod may be the ONLY solution available for those without nVidia graphics cards though.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by mark bonamer

so, 930 am in the Caribbean in August, even though it is dark, the enemy sees me as if it is daylight?

couldn't this be a solar eclipse?

Where are you based out of for a Carribean patrol?

[propbeanie]

He's in a U-Boat, and the US has radar...