How About The WORST Naval/Submarine You've Ever Read?

[Linton]

Who did write Clancy's SSN then?

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Bill Nichols

Red Star Rogue - one of the very few books I've felt like throwing against the wall in disgust.

I thought about buying this one at one time . What didn't you like about it?

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by AntEater

"Tom Clancy's (actually it wasnt him) SSN"
The game sucked, but compared to the book, the game was quite good.


The chinese are just comicbook villains while a single US SSN simply massacres the whole people's liberation navy and of course the whole russian navy; which was conveniently sold to China to keep the USS Cheyenne from running out of targets.
Also, the gloating about multiple chinese (and russian) deaths is sometimes sickening. Of course in war novels soldiers die, but SSN makes it sound like stamping out insects.
And if that was not enough, there had to be a chinese über sub as the "boss" in the end.

I totally agree. I had the book on tape from the library, and it struck me as a video game book. Use some imagination, and quit wriiting your computer games missions down.

[Chock]

Not a fan of Tom Clancy's books at all, let alone SSN.

With most writers, I usually prefer to read one or two of their books rather than form an opinion based on their 'reputation' as a good author. To this end, I bought what is probably Tom Clancy's most famous novel, The Hunt for Red October, many years ago and read it. And I was not impressed at all.

In the case of Clancy (admittedly he is not the only action writer guilty of this), I think his writing style is too unwieldly; yes it is very technically accurate in almost every detail, but that often gets in the way of the narrative flow. Nobody would ever 'grab a gun from a desk drawer' in a Clancy book, they'd 'grab a Belgian-made FN Five Seven semi-automatic pistol loaded with ten armor-tipped 5.7x28mm catridges (serial number 265432990), from the third drawer down on the left hand side of the exquisitely-inlaid Florentine-styled boxwood and mahogany Bureau (dimensions 4' 8''x4'10''x9'7''), in the corner of the room'. That's all very well, but when every sentence reads like that, it feels more like you are reading something with notes for a screenplay production office than a fast-paced novel.

On top of all that, nobody in his novels is ever 27th in their class at Quantico (or wherever), they are always the top scorers, the best there is, which tends to make things a bit one-dimensional to say the least. And with the length of Clancy's novels, there would be plenty of pages for character exposition if we didn't have to suffer tedious technical details about every piece of hardware the hero ever comes into contact with.

Of course I wouldn't want it to go to the other extreme - which if anyone remembers the scene in the movie Throw Momma from the Train, is hilariously highlighted when someone with no technical knowledge at all in Billy Crystal's writing class attempts to write a submarine story in that style, but Tom, enough with the technical specifications already!

So although Clancy's novels are clearly great fodder for movies if someone can pare them down, they make great stories, but as a reading experience they aren't that enjoyable. A bit like Bob Dylan really: All Along the Watchtower is a great song, but you'd much rather hear Jimi Hendrix doing it.

Chock

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Chock

Not a fan of Tom Clancy's books at all, let alone SSN.

With most writers, I usually prefer to read one or two of their books rather than form an opinion based on their 'reputation' as a good author. To this end, I bought what is probably Tom Clancy's most famous novel, The Hunt for Red October, many years ago and read it. And I was not impressed at all.

In the case of Clancy (admittedly he is not the only action writer guilty of this), I think his writing style is too unwieldly; yes it is very technically accurate in almost every detail, but that often gets in the way of the narrative flow. Nobody would ever 'grab a gun from a desk drawer' in a Clancy book, they'd 'grab a Belgian-made FN Five Seven semi-automatic pistol loaded with ten armor-tipped 5.7x28mm catridges (serial number 265432990), from the third drawer down on the left hand side of the exquisitely-inlaid Florentine-styled boxwood and mahogany Bureau (dimensions 4' 8''x4'10''x9'7''), in the corner of the room'. That's all very well, but when every sentence reads like that, it feels more like you are reading something with notes for a screenplay production office than a fast-paced novel.

On top of all that, nobody in his novels is ever 27th in their class at Quantico (or wherever), they are always the top scorers, the best there is, which tends to make things a bit one-dimensional to say the least. And with the length of Clancy's novels, there would be plenty of pages for character exposition if we didn't have to suffer tedious technical details about every piece of hardware the hero ever comes into contact with.

Of course I wouldn't want it to go to the other extreme - which if anyone remembers the scene in the movie Throw Momma from the Train, is hilariously highlighted when someone with no technical knowledge at all in Billy Crystal's writing class attempts to write a submarine story in that style, but Tom, enough with the technical specifications already!

So although Clancy's novels are clearly great fodder for movies if someone can pare them down, they make great stories, but as a reading experience they aren't that enjoyable. A bit like Bob Dylan really: All Along the Watchtower is a great song, but you'd much rather hear Jimi Hendrix doing it.

Chock

Good points. Did you ever read Red Storm Rising? If you did, what did you think?

[AntEater]

Red Storm Rising is not entirely by Clancy either.
It was co-authored by Larry Bond, the creator of the "Harpoon" computer/board (how do you play such a thing on a tabletop anyway? ) games.
Bond wrote a bunch of books himself which range from good to mediocre.

[Captain Vlad]

I read an utterly awful Douglas Reeman novel (which, after a couple more attempts, seemed to be a redundant phrase) about the Surcouf's sister sub, loose in the Pacific with a British crew who single-handedly sank what appeared to be the entire Japanese Navy.

Seriously...even SH IV war patrol kill lists look paltry next to what those fellas did.

Some silliness in there about the XO and CO after the same woman...which also occured in the other two Reeman novels I had the tenacity to read.

For movies? Full Fathom Five. I probably don't have to say anything else.

[AntEater]

You mean Fire from the Sea?
Read this one while in the navy and pretty much laughted myself to death.
Actually I thought it was written by Alexander Kent, at least I think the german version actually WAS sold as being by Alexander Kent..
:rotfl:
But it surely seemed to be a steep drop in quality compared to other Kent novels.

[Captain Vlad]

Originally Posted by AntEater

You mean Fire from the Sea?
Read this one while in the navy and pretty much laughted myself to death.
Actually I thought it was written by Alexander Kent, at least I think the german version actually WAS sold as being by Alexander Kent..
:rotfl:
But it surely seemed to be a steep drop in quality compared to other Kent novels.

Strike from the Sea when I read it (now that I've wikied Reeman and found the title). And yeah, he uses the pen name Alexander Kent. Had already read With Blood and Iron and Send a Gunboat, which were a little better, though still a bit farcical.

When the same CO/XO/Girlfriend subplot showed up in A Ship Must Die I sorta gave up on him. Really...three times was enough...

[AntEater]

I read a bunch of Kent novels in german translation while in service (ship's store had them).
Some were quite good, others like "strike from the sea" or one about a british naval aviator were pretty abmysal.
Could it be that translation actually improved the novels?


Btw, I've never read Erich Maak's U-Boat novels, which are pretty much the closest to Alexander Kent by a german author, so I suppose they're quite bad as well.
I read "duel with the wet death" (not part of the series) which is about a young Officer who does one U-Boat Patrol as WO in 1944 (sinks half the Royal Navy and even survives!) before taking over a converted ASW Trawler in the baltic, assisting the east prussian evacuation.
Thereby sinking half the soviet sub and MTB force and of course falling madly in love with his former U-Boat CO's sister...
:rotfl:

[Captain Vlad]

Originally Posted by AntEater

I read a bunch of Kent novels in german translation while in service (ship's store had them).
Some were quite good, others like "strike from the sea" or one about a british naval aviator were pretty abmysal.
Could it be that translation actually improved the novels?

He did a series of Age of Sail stories I've never tried or even seen, and I hear they're quite good. The library's selection of him was a bit paltry here, though. All I had was his more 'modern' stuff. Might have to give his Boloitho series a try.

And I've seen translations improve movies...it could happen with a book too, I suppose.

I read "duel with the wet death" (not part of the series) which is about a young Officer who does one U-Boat Patrol as WO in 1944 (sinks half the Royal Navy and even survives!) before taking over a converted ASW Trawler in the baltic, assisting the east prussian evacuation.
Thereby sinking half the soviet sub and MTB force and of course falling madly in love with his former U-Boat CO's sister...
:rotfl:

Almost wanna read that now just to see how bad it is, like when I deliberately watched Manos, The Hand of Fate without the benefit of the MST3K crew.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Subnuts

Runner up would probably be Patrick Robinson's USS Scorpion, which I don't remember much of besides being a tedious racist diatribe against the Chinese.

Did you mean USS Seawolf? I just read it too see how bad it really was and wow its that bad. Any story that has a SSN being forceably towed by a PLAN Destroyer has got to take the cake.

Just dive and pull the SOBs under with you, then surface after they've all drowned and cut the cable.

And the ending why does someone always blow their brains out in Robinson's books. Thats twice in a row for crying out loud. I was expecting the CO to go on CNN or MSNBC and spill the beans after what the POTUS did to him not have him eat his own gun. I know people in the military are loyal but I dout their that loyal.

I enjoyed his first three books but after that wow talk about a turn down hill. In Seawolf the oh so mighty Arnold Morgan probaly says it best "This has got to be the most incompatant navy and adminstration in the history of the US" (or something close to that). So lets boil it down in Robinsons first 6 novels the US loses an Aircraft Carrier, A Seawolf class SSN, the vice President is killed, the President's son turns trator, the Strait of Hormuz is shut down, Taiwan is captured by China and the US is attacked with Cruise Missiles. All the adminstration does is say its the Democrats fault and sit on their hands helpless, I think a monkey flinging poo in the oval office could do a better job than these idiots.

Just so no one has to read any of Robisons books after HMS Unseen let me boil them down for you: Arnold Morgan is your one and true GOD, Democrats hate America, everyone but Americans (and occasonly the English) are all inferior, and the US Navy doesn't know a Russian attack sub from its own @$$ holes unless Arnold Morgan tells them what to do.

Are these books a joke, a strange pariody of reality or is this guy serious?

[AntEater]

I've read in Wikipedia that many people consider Robertson's books parodies, voluntarily or not.
It always struck me as odd that Robinson is british, while at the same time writing more or less very US centric books.
Normally, in UK novels, the Amis need a smart british guy to get things done: James Bond, Mike Martin and who else.
In Robinsons books, the US does it all by themselves, usually by just killing everybody and his dog.

But I must admit that such writers have had a very positive influence on my life:
The day I read my first Clive Cussler novel, I realized I could be a writer as well.
:rotfl:

[XabbaRus]

Anyone else noticed how Tom Clancy's books get longer with each one published but take even longer to actually ge to the story and the action?

[Captain Vlad]

Originally Posted by AntEater

The day I read my first Clive Cussler novel, I realized I could be a writer as well.
:rotfl:

I like Cussler.

I don't like to admit, but God help me, I do. He's like those fun, bad movies you used to see on late night TV that you'd be making fun of as you watched them but somehow, you just couldn't make yourself change the channel.