[REL] Thomsen's Ships V3.1 is out! All credits to H.SIE (10/12/2008)

[UberTorpedo]

PT, I have to agree with Mikhayl and Fubar2Niner . This is coming along nicely. Keep up the good work .

Cheers,
UberTorpedo

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Someone gave me a 1 star rating here too...

Is this mod that bad, really? Or it's more like hate? Or envy?

Post a nice criticism here, instead of acting like a child.

At least it would be construtive.

[Graf Paper]

That video looks gorgeous!

I was wondering about the behavior of the ships in the 15 m/s storm conditions. The ships seemed a little too calm. Wouldn't a raging storm cause waves to break over the bows and also cause ships to "nose under" from time to time while riding the heavy seas?

Is that a necessary trade-off to make this mod or is it more to do with the wave height settings?

One thing I think this mod will allow is to make attacking ships in a storm more successful. The current "bobbing" behavior of ships now causes a lot more misses from the ships being raised up high enough in the water by the waves so that your torpedo passes under them harmlessly, even though your torpedo is set to run at 1 meter or less.

I know some people might say to use magnetic pistols but they are highly unreliable and tend to detonate prematurely in rough seas.

So that's another reason why I think this mod will actually add to the realism in regards to torpedo attacks.

I can hardly wait for a release of this mod, Philipp!

[Letum]

Still looking very interesting.

Is it me, or are some of the ships sitting a little low in the water in your video?
(It may well be me!)

@PT.....I have to say mate, the ships look brilliant in calmer weather now. Very solid in the water, cutting through the sea rather than "riding" it. In rougher seas though they seem quite low in the water and that's why their decks are quite awash.

In theory, the ships should go from (a) cutting through the sea in calm waters to (b) side to side roll in rougher waters and finally (c) "cork-screwing" in the roughest waters. Its the energy of the sea that should make them "bob", so no bobbing in calm waters (no energy), some bobbing in medium waters and chaotic cyclic motion in roughest waters.

I'm curious, does the SH3 engine allow a sliding scale of "bobbyness" as the weather worsens ? Because if you could keep everything as it is in your video but get the ships to rise up a little in the rogher weather states then i'd say the decks will be a little less awash and you'll have solved the whole shebang.

Excellent work though, amazing really after nearly 4 years in the public eye.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Originally Posted by Graf Paper

That video looks gorgeous!

I was wondering about the behavior of the ships in the 15 m/s storm conditions. The ships seemed a little too calm. Wouldn't a raging storm cause waves to break over the bows and also cause ships to "nose under" from time to time while riding the heavy seas?

Is that a necessary trade-off to make this mod or is it more to do with the wave height settings?

This video was made with my water mod video, so the waves are smaller, so you don't have that much pitch and roll. Using GWX you'll have more of that "nose under" you said.

Is that a necessary trade-off to make this mod? Well, pretty much. There's no way to fix "steady" for calm weathers and "bobbing" for heavy ones.

The good side is that, with this mod and my water mod, I've killed that "ship sinking on it's own" bug, that pissed off a lot of players around. The storm is not that perfect bizarre storm, in my water mod. It's more like a heavy weather, and that's it. Those amazing waves that turn ships into submarines for some seconds, causes more harm then good, when it comes to SH3. It's better to keep it working properly then to be 100% realistic sometimes.

One thing I think this mod will allow is to make attacking ships in a storm more successful. The current "bobbing" behavior of ships now causes a lot more misses from the ships being raised up high enough in the water by the waves so that your torpedo passes under them harmlessly, even though your torpedo is set to run at 1 meter or less.

Isn't that absurd? Do you really think that a 3.000 tons ships would pop out of the water, so a torpedo would pass below it, even if set for 1m?
Enough of that. Let's make it playable.

I know some people might say to use magnetic pistols but they are highly unreliable and tend to detonate prematurely in rough seas.

So that's another reason why I think this mod will actually add to the realism in regards to torpedo attacks.

That is true. In heavy seas I didn't know what to set for depth. The ship has a 5 meter draft, so in calm waters I would set the torpedo for 5.8. But in heavy seas, if I set for 5.8, it would either pass under without detonating, or hit the curly part of the hull and ricochet. The torpedo would have to pass in the exact perfect timing to detonate, which in cases would consume 3 or 4 torpedos. It's ridiculous, just a bad joke. That's not the real stuff. Now with this, it will be better to hunt!

I can hardly wait for a release of this mod, Philipp!

Above, in colour!

[Tango589]

Looking good so far PT! I'm looking forward to a WIP video of a torpedo being fired at the stationary tramp-steamer in the Torpedo Tutorial and not seeing the boat put the pedal to the metal and high-tail it out of there.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Originally Posted by Uber Gruber

@PT.....I have to say mate, the ships look brilliant in calmer weather now. Very solid in the water, cutting through the sea rather than "riding" it. In rougher seas though they seem quite low in the water and that's why their decks are quite awash.

In theory, the ships should go from (a) cutting through the sea in calm waters to (b) side to side roll in rougher waters and finally (c) "cork-screwing" in the roughest waters. Its the energy of the sea that should make them "bob", so no bobbing in calm waters (no energy), some bobbing in medium waters and chaotic cyclic motion in roughest waters.

I'm curious, does the SH3 engine allow a sliding scale of "bobbyness" as the weather worsens ? Because if you could keep everything as it is in your video but get the ships to rise up a little in the rogher weather states then i'd say the decks will be a little less awash and you'll have solved the whole shebang.

Excellent work though, amazing really after nearly 4 years in the public eye.

Thank you very much!

As I said above, to Graf Paper, the lack of bobbing is necessary to keep the ships low on the water in heavy waters without sinking on it's own.

But if is a general opinion that the ships should go more up and down on the water in heavy seas, that can be made. In my opinion it's looking great the way it is. You need to note that the small merchant was going up and down a lot, while the large tanker was not. Why? The large tanker is heavier, longer and LARGER! That would make it go steadier in heavy waters.

I think it looks great, but then again, I had never been on a ship, so I don't know how much would be the bobbing in rough waters. A good video would be great, anyone have one?

[Graf Paper]

Thank you for your well thought reply, Philipp.

I agree that it does seem the "bobbing in a bathtub" behavior of ships has been due more to people wanting ships to be tossed about on stormy seas because that's how it looks in movies.

We are talking about a sim that is supposed to at least resemble the real world, after all.

It is a shame that SH3 will not allow a ship's mass to behave differently in the different effects of sea states, such as greater torsion and flexion in severe storms causing a ship to roll and nose under.

The buoyancy seems fine. Battleships and tankers do indeed ride very low in the water. Both types of ships are very massive and heavy.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Originally Posted by Tango589

Looking good so far PT! I'm looking forward to a WIP video of a torpedo being fired at the stationary tramp-steamer in the Torpedo Tutorial and not seeing the boat put the pedal to the metal and high-tail it out of there.

The video don't shows that, but the acceleration and braking abilities of the ships have been reduced by 10 times, so there's no way it will ever happen again.

[Task Force]

Good mod thomson. this diserves 5 stars.:p Now ive gotta find a way to get this running with GWX.:hmm: Dont feel like downloading sh3 again.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Originally Posted by Graf Paper

Thank you for your well thought reply, Philipp.

I agree that it does seem the "bobbing in a bathtub" behavior of ships has been due more to people wanting ships to be tossed about on stormy seas because that's how it looks in movies.

We are talking about a sim that is supposed to at least resemble the real world, after all.

It is a shame that SH3 will not allow a ship's mass to behave differently in the different effects of sea states, such as greater torsion and flexion in severe storms causing a ship to roll and nose under.

The buoyancy seems fine. Battleships and tankers do indeed ride very low in the water. Both types of ships are very massive and heavy.

EXACTLY!!!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Originally Posted by Task Force

Good mod thomson. this diserves 5 stars.:p Now ive gotta find a way to get this running with GWX.:hmm: Dont feel like downloading sh3 again.

Well, in the video, the mod is running on top of gwx, olc, water stream, community ships, life boat and debris, exaust smoke, all my mods, the whole shebang.

The mod changes the ship's .sim file, and there's very very few mods that mess around with that file, so that would assure compatibility of thousand other mods.

And yes, you readed it right. This mod covers all the ships in the community mod!

It's very simple really. This mod don't change the ship's draught, or the maximum speed, or anything that would cause problems or CTD's. This is the easiest mod I've ever done. In terms of thinking it thru, cos in terms of manually changing the data, it's a pain in the ass... 250 files to change, 5 values to change in each file, different values depending on the kind of ship. Yeah, I would love some help!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Gosh... I hope IBL like these ships and change his ships' .sim files in the merchant fleet mod. Otherwise, I will have a lot more work to do in the late november...

By the way, REEEEEEAAAALLLY looking foward to it, IBL!

[Myxale]

Looks neat Philip. And about the water flowing over, well this happens in RL in stormy seas! I think it was kinda nice! Here are some pics about it!



The ships did feel heavier from the look of it. Now we just need some examples about acceleration and zig-zah behaviour.

PS I so love watching vids of big fat cargo in stormy conditions!