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Old 08-14-2008, 02:46 PM   #1
Bramtyr
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Default Wake Island Mission and some questions

Hi, i put out the plans to do a Wake Island mission (probably shoulda posted it here, but it included some modelling issues so i kept it in the main SH4 forum)

The post:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=140753


the issue:

So I started to play around with the mission editor to see how the AI would interact, and what would attack what, etc. Coastal defenses, bombers, torpedo planes for fun (they dropped their torpedos without the use of a mod... is that wierd?)

Some of the issues i found:
-the "Coastal AA batteries" regardless of weapon loadout are just an empty weapon mount and don't do anything... is there a mod to fix this?


-Originally I was able to place American gun batteries- light, medium or heavy, and they worked fine shooting at any enemy ships in range. Then at some point they couldn't be found in the editors roster, only Japanese gun batteries. If I exported the land units into a new map, all of the american gun batteries were automatically converted into AA emplacements. They seriously just vanished from being placed. Its really weird, and the existence of gun batteries is kinda essential to an accurate Wake Island map.

Coastal Bunkers don't do anything, but some Japanese Merchant ships would still shoot at them, and I observed a plane attempt to attack it. It would be fun to mod them so they started burning like a lit up fuel tank to simulate the island burning after attack from offshore.
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:05 PM   #2
peabody
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramtyr
Hi, i put out the plans to do a Wake Island mission (probably shoulda posted it here, but it included some modelling issues so i kept it in the main SH4 forum)

The post:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=140753


the issue:

So I started to play around with the mission editor to see how the AI would interact, and what would attack what, etc. Coastal defenses, bombers, torpedo planes for fun (they dropped their torpedos without the use of a mod... is that wierd?)

Some of the issues i found:
-the "Coastal AA batteries" regardless of weapon loadout are just an empty weapon mount and don't do anything... is there a mod to fix this?


-Originally I was able to place American gun batteries- light, medium or heavy, and they worked fine shooting at any enemy ships in range. Then at some point they couldn't be found in the editors roster, only Japanese gun batteries. If I exported the land units into a new map, all of the american gun batteries were automatically converted into AA emplacements. They seriously just vanished from being placed. Its really weird, and the existence of gun batteries is kinda essential to an accurate Wake Island map.

Coastal Bunkers don't do anything, but some Japanese Merchant ships would still shoot at them, and I observed a plane attempt to attack it. It would be fun to mod them so they started burning like a lit up fuel tank to simulate the island burning after attack from offshore.
As much as I have worked with the Mission Editor, I never realized the AAs don't shoot.:hmm: I have to pay attention more.
But what I am posting about, There are shore batteries already at wake, you might want to check it out first. The game automatically loads a lot of stuff even for single missions. You could check the placement of the guns that are automatically loaded.

Another thing you could do is to check, I think it would be "harbor traffic" in campaigns folder for the time period and see what is automatically loaded there. It will most likely have some docked ships, so you would need to delete what you don't want and instead of doing this as a mission, do it like a mod, so you can overwrite those files. That way you could put the 'mission' in the Single mission folder and put the modded Campaign ones in the campaign folder.
I have heard that the new version of the editor some of the 'layer' saves don't work right. There are people that have used this on Campaigns that could answer that. Just ask in the Mods forum. I have used "Random Layer" and that seems to work fine.
I just checked: Campaign.LOC gives the docks, US HarborTraffic the ships and USBatteries the shore batteries but I just found out there are no batteries until the Japanese take over. but there are US ships.

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Old 08-14-2008, 10:46 PM   #3
Bramtyr
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Thanks Peabody, i'll check it out. Anything you reccomend reading to learn up on it?

I wanted to do a fairly accurate Wake- I have the locations and compliments of all the 5-inch and 3 inch Batteries, as well as the AA 3-inchers that I obtained through some research, and mainly through my own stupid OCD fix what the game never got right. I wanted to remove the harbor facilities that are default at Wake; they are way overbuilt, I'm glad to hear you say its possible to remove. I hear there's even some terrain editing capabilities, and want to fix the fact that Wilkes and Wake Island are merged together. I should just shut up before I give myself a nervous breakdown.

I am still not at all familiar with the whole layers set up and the campaign thing, as well as building mods, I only jumped in a day ago and just have a single tutorial forum to work with- and basically still have alot of questions to ask, but don't want to annoy by asking to many.

Two Mods I would like to learn how to do is fixing the land AA so it actually works, and making the bunkers useful for something-- as a FX tools-- by basically have them be placable 'smoke pots' and have them always billow smoke like something important inland is on fire; like a fuel tank, ammo depot, or an orphanage. For example, in the instance of Wake Island, have a few of these spawn after each bombing raid from the Marshall Islands to insure that the place looks like its under bombardment. This adds to the realism and 'atmosphere' of the gritty war environment.
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Old 08-15-2008, 12:02 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramtyr
Thanks Peabody, i'll check it out. Anything you reccomend reading to learn up on it?

I wanted to do a fairly accurate Wake- I have the locations and compliments of all the 5-inch and 3 inch Batteries, as well as the AA 3-inchers that I obtained through some research, and mainly through my own stupid OCD fix what the game never got right. I wanted to remove the harbor facilities that are default at Wake; they are way overbuilt, I'm glad to hear you say its possible to remove. I hear there's even some terrain editing capabilities, and want to fix the fact that Wilkes and Wake Island are merged together. I should just shut up before I give myself a nervous breakdown.

I am still not at all familiar with the whole layers set up and the campaign thing, as well as building mods, I only jumped in a day ago and just have a single tutorial forum to work with- and basically still have alot of questions to ask, but don't want to annoy by asking to many.

Two Mods I would like to learn how to do is fixing the land AA so it actually works, and making the bunkers useful for something-- as a FX tools-- by basically have them be placable 'smoke pots' and have them always billow smoke like something important inland is on fire; like a fuel tank, ammo depot, or an orphanage. For example, in the instance of Wake Island, have a few of these spawn after each bombing raid from the Marshall Islands to insure that the place looks like its under bombardment. This adds to the realism and 'atmosphere' of the gritty war environment.
There are two islands at Wake, I didn't know they had two names, there is an opening at the north. I don't know if that is what you mean. If you want to see things always smoking go to Rabaul. They messed up and there is a ship on land and it burns all the time. There is another one somewhere but I can't remember, but very little is visible, which is what you would want. I don't know if it's a ship in the ground or what.
I never knew the AA didn't work. I knew the bunkers did.:rotfl:. I made a mission for one of the surface ships when they first started making them. It was the PocketBB and I made a task force going by Wake and it and a couple of DDs went out to greet them. The ships were sinking all over. It was then I realized the mission was too close to Wake and the shore batteries took out most of the ships.

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Old 08-15-2008, 11:10 AM   #5
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the fact that you say the gun batteries suddenly dont show up in editor anymore makes me think that somehow your game files got corrupted.

its always a good idea to take a virgin copy of the games data folder before any mods and copy it to a dvd. if you are lucky enough to have done this i recommend delete your data folder and replace it with the back up copy, if not try a fresh reinstall of the game. you would be surprised how easy it is to get corrupted files when you change things in the game even if you did it the correct way, i think you have missing or missplaced game files and thats why you have missing data in the editor.
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Old 08-15-2008, 01:38 PM   #6
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Webster, thanks for the advice, i'll look into it.

Peabody, Wake Island is 3 islands, (or an island and to islets?) Wake, Wilkes and Peale, with Wake being by far the largest. Think sorta like how Midway Island is actually two islands with a few rocks inbetween. Wilkes and Wake were seperated by water, but it was widened with a dredged channel and blasted coral to give boats lighters access to the central lagoon.

I will check out dumping ships on land to make them burn for smoke effects! Good idea! As for the bunkers, the Coastal batteries and bunkers are different. The batteries are working big guns; while the bunkers are just an inanimate lump of concrete, similar to the defunct AA. Though since theres a chance my game files are all screwy i need to reinstall and double check.
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Old 08-15-2008, 02:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramtyr
Webster, thanks for the advice, i'll look into it.

Peabody, Wake Island is 3 islands, (or an island and to islets?) Wake, Wilkes and Peale, with Wake being by far the largest. Think sorta like how Midway Island is actually two islands with a few rocks inbetween. Wilkes and Wake were seperated by water, but it was widened with a dredged channel and blasted coral to give boats lighters access to the central lagoon.

I will check out dumping ships on land to make them burn for smoke effects! Good idea! As for the bunkers, the Coastal batteries and bunkers are different. The batteries are working big guns; while the bunkers are just an inanimate lump of concrete, similar to the defunct AA. Though since theres a chance my game files are all screwy i need to reinstall and double check.
I did a flyby with two jap planes over three AAs and not a shot was fired.

If you try the ship on land, you may be able to hide it with some bushes. But in mission editor you may have to add a village to get the bushes, not sure. I know there are .dds of brush somewhere, but don't know how to add them. I looked at Map Locations and I didn't see any bushes separate.

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Old 08-15-2008, 03:07 PM   #8
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Peabody,

You were right about the bunkers-they have guns and they work. However i need to get them to detect and fire upon ships just beyond 5000 meters, not sure how to do that.

Yeah, if you look closely at the AA- there no guns, just an empty mount. Pooey.

Anyone know how one would go about fixing village/port locations for Wake?
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Old 08-15-2008, 04:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramtyr
Peabody,

You were right about the bunkers-they have guns and they work. However i need to get them to detect and fire upon ships just beyond 5000 meters, not sure how to do that.

Yeah, if you look closely at the AA- there no guns, just an empty mount. Pooey.

Anyone know how one would go about fixing village/port locations for Wake?
There is a menu item to enable for Edit Map Locations, then you right click and choose from the list. But unless you are going to use 'in game' premade stuff it involves 3D design. There is a thread for a Sub base being built in Pearl Harbor. He not only explains what he is doing, but If I remember right he also mentioned how to get it into the game when it's done.

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Old 08-16-2008, 11:44 AM   #10
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Bramtyr,

Found one solution for AA guns. The 2pdrQuadruple is the only gun that actually exists. And it does work. I did a flyby with one plane over three guns, all of them shot, all of them missed.:rotfl:. So it is a bug in the program, the other guns don't exist, but it may be able to be fixed by changing some files. And the guns are manned by two men. But they shoot very slow. Reload time is most likely the problem. Didn't check everything but probably a small clip with slow reload. And numbers can be changed.

Update: they did hit the plane on the return trip. After it had already bombed my sub. And the plane went down in flames, but the pilot was still sitting in the cockpit and the propeller was still turning and he was moving along in the grass. I also tried to change the guns to other, one didn't do anything, the other one I tried crashed the program.

If you could do me a favor, like usual I forgot to make a backup.
Go to Data\Land\LAA_AAPlatform and open the eqp file with notepad and give me the name in [Epuipment 2] LinkName= ?????
I think I have it right, and it doesn't crash so I guess it really doesn't matter because the gun doesn't exist. But if we fix that I would like the right name in there.

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Last edited by peabody; 08-16-2008 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 08-16-2008, 01:12 PM   #11
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;20mm Twin loadout definition
[Equipment 2]
NodeName=M01
LinkName=20mmGBDouble
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231
Loadout=20mm Twin


I did more experimenting around of what works and what doesnt.

Large and medium bunkers function, small bunkers are just an empty cupola and are non functioning. Replacing them with a 3-inch gun might be easy since the model exists? I dunno. The Large and Medium bunkers will fire upon japanese warships to at least 5000 meters in daylight conditions, but the warships only sometimes return fire. I need to double check if their return fire is even directed at the batteries or not. Since the warships seem to take a brutal pounding, the need for a light bunker might be a moot point- maybe use that as a smoke pot.

I am seeming to have no luck getting either the US fighter or US divebomber to attack japanese ships.

For using burning ships as a smokepot effect, i've had better luck dumping half a dozen smaller ships, dugboats and fishing trawlers with their internal cargo set up as 'fuel' onto land. The only problem is that the map is then covered with sunken ship icons, and i think the engine will clear them out once they are beyond visual range.
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Old 08-16-2008, 02:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramtyr
;20mm Twin loadout definition
[Equipment 2]
NodeName=M01
LinkName=20mmGBDouble
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231
Loadout=20mm Twin


I did more experimenting around of what works and what doesnt.

Large and medium bunkers function, small bunkers are just an empty cupola and are non functioning. Replacing them with a 3-inch gun might be easy since the model exists? I dunno. The Large and Medium bunkers will fire upon japanese warships to at least 5000 meters in daylight conditions, but the warships only sometimes return fire. I need to double check if their return fire is even directed at the batteries or not. Since the warships seem to take a brutal pounding, the need for a light bunker might be a moot point- maybe use that as a smoke pot.

I am seeming to have no luck getting either the US fighter or US divebomber to attack japanese ships.

For using burning ships as a smokepot effect, i've had better luck dumping half a dozen smaller ships, dugboats and fishing trawlers with their internal cargo set up as 'fuel' onto land. The only problem is that the map is then covered with sunken ship icons, and i think the engine will clear them out once they are beyond visual range.
For your planes, obviously make sure they have a loadout, and set them to 'Elite', they will attack. I made a Bismark Sea battle which was mostly planes.

Using another gun will have to be checked out. I tried to substitute a gun in the AA and it crashed.

I thought of burning planes but they don't work, one fireball and that's it, and it won't work to simulate gun file explosions because they won't spawn within 20 miles.

Edit: I wonder if you could take funnel smoke from a ship make an object and place it on land? Or maybe attach it to the empty gun bunkers. Tried it, didn't work

woops I was busy experimenting forgot to thank you for the file, I appreciate it.

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Last edited by peabody; 08-16-2008 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:06 AM   #13
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Peabody, do you know if aircraft will attack each other?
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramtyr
Peabody, do you know if aircraft will attack each other?
I tried it once and they just flew by each other.

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Old 08-20-2008, 01:20 PM   #15
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well crap.

Know how to increase warships' and coastal guns' nighttime detection/engagement range? i need it to about 6000 yards/meters nightime, fair conditions.

i'm still pretty sure they engage each other. all my tests have been in on Wake Island with its oversized harbor facilities... so there is still a chance the warships at sea are engaging the harbored ships in the lagoon.
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