Ultimate Planes of Death

[Barkerov]

So last night I had an interesting experience to say the least.

I started a new career out of Manila at the start of the war in a salmon class boat and was told to patrol SW of Formosa. Later I was told to patrol the Luzon straits. I was trying to play as a real skipper of this time period would operate, which is dive at dawn and surface at dusk. During the day I would travel at 3 knots and periodically come to periscope depth for a peek then dive back down to 140ft for a listen. So as not to cheat I would not listen myself but get the crew to do it. (Note: apparently the sonar guy is even more deaf than usual because he cant hear a merchant traveling within 2000 yards in 5m/s seas at periscope depth. In my equipment list it says I have no listening gear which might explain this but surely the Navy had this equipment right from the start of hostilities right?)

So imagine my surprise when I start taking heavy damage at a depth of 140ft at around 14:05. I had been submerged all day with the exception of a single 5 min stint on the surface to refresh oxygen about 1 and a half in game hours beforehand. Is there a way to fix the planes so they don't see me at that depth? (Surely that is way outside their capabilities right) Also how the hell did they do so much damage if I am at that depth?

[Crannogman]

Bombs and depth charges can work at any depth.

Some of my reading on those Asiatic Fleet boats stated that a lot of the seafloor near China and Formosa was/is rather light-colored, amiung it dificult for US subs to hide at any depth at any depth. Not that I believe this is modeled in-game

[Sailor Steve]

You do not say what supermod you are using, if any. It is my belief that only TMO lets them see that deep.

[Barkerov]

That's good to know about the Formosa strait. At the time of "the incident" though I was in the Luzon straits and the depth under keel was over 1000ft so that wouldn't be a factor even if it was modeled.
I meant to say that I am using RFB with the RSRD campaign

[razark]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

It is my belief that only TMO lets them see that deep.

I seem to recall Ducimus had set that at one point, but had toned it down in a later revision of TMO.

Is my memory faulty? Can anyone confirm that?

[Crannogman]

Originally Posted by Barkerov

That's good to know about the Formosa strait. At the time of "the incident" though I was in the Luzon straits and the depth under keel was over 1000ft so that wouldn't be a factor even if it was modeled.
I meant to say that I am using RFB with the RSRD campaign

My reading was about USS Seadragon off Cam Ranh Bay - in part they were being spotted because their black paint was peeling off the red undercoat, causing them to be spotted by aircraft no matter the depth below.

[Barkerov]

Originally Posted by Crannogman

My reading was about USS Seadragon off Cam Ranh Bay - in part they were being spotted because their black paint was peeling off the red undercoat, causing them to be spotted by aircraft no matter the depth below.

Were they first discovered whilst underwater or did the Japanese know roughly where to start looking first?

[Rockin Robbins]

Being spotted from the air at depth is a wildly veriable effect, depending on sea conditions, stuff in the water, weather, sun angle and, I'm sure, things I'm not even thinking of.

I've seen photos of subs at 100' that were as clearly seen as if surfaced. They were in deep water. I've seen photos of subs at periscope depth which couldn't be seen at all except for the periscope wake.

I actually enjoy TMO's evil airplanes. They add an entirely new dimension to the hunt. Now you are the hunter and the hunted. While doing one you cannot ever forget the other.

[lukterran]

Originally Posted by Barkerov

So last night I had an interesting experience to say the least.

I started a new career out of Manila at the start of the war in a salmon class boat and was told to patrol SW of Formosa. Later I was told to patrol the Luzon straits. I was trying to play as a real skipper of this time period would operate, which is dive at dawn and surface at dusk. During the day I would travel at 3 knots and periodically come to periscope depth for a peek then dive back down to 140ft for a listen. So as not to cheat I would not listen myself but get the crew to do it. (Note: apparently the sonar guy is even more deaf than usual because he cant hear a merchant traveling within 2000 yards in 5m/s seas at periscope depth. In my equipment list it says I have no listening gear which might explain this but surely the Navy had this equipment right from the start of hostilities right?)

So imagine my surprise when I start taking heavy damage at a depth of 140ft at around 14:05. I had been submerged all day with the exception of a single 5 min stint on the surface to refresh oxygen about 1 and a half in game hours beforehand. Is there a way to fix the planes so they don't see me at that depth? (Surely that is way outside their capabilities right) Also how the hell did they do so much damage if I am at that depth?

Where you seen at any time prior? If so did you stay on the same course and speed? I have seen the planes attack along the course that your sub was traveling if it is spotted by any enemy ships.

Another thing is there any damage to your sub? It could be a oil leak.

Lastly, along the same damage line. Are you sure that it is the planes that are killing your sub or are you just taking damage while in TC? My sub had the same issue and what was happening was that the hull was failing because of damage sustain to my sub (even though it didn't show up as damage in DC screen).

[Barkerov]

RR I would imagine that the angle of the sun compared to the patch of sea you're occupying would be a factor.

I am annoyed because I took so many precautions to compensate for the lack of SD RADAR. Staying deep virtually all day and coming up for some peeks through the periscope every 45 minutes. I only surfaced once to get some air. I was deliberately sacrificing some hunting chances to avoid being hunted.

lukterran there was no previous damage this time, I have been caught that way before though. My leading theory at the moment is that my periscope was spotted by Japanese super men of the RFB/RSRDC variety who tracked me for 30 minutes before attacking. I might add a course change to my peeking routine and see if that helps

[Rockin Robbins]

Yes, that was one of the defects of hiding all day. The sub, simply because it was playing ostrich, thought it was being safe. Really, lacking all combat awareness at all, it was endangering itself and its crew way beyond anything they could imagine.

How many subs did we lose to being bombed while submerged? There's no way to know because unless they were able to claw their way to the surface to make a call they would just vanish.

The big lesson from the ostrich strategy was that ignorance and safety are very different things. Later, more aggressive skippers learned to stay on the surface every second that their life didn't depend on it. When you are in mortal combat, awareness is EVERYTHING. Denying yourself and crew the information to save their scrawny hides is criminal neglect.

Just because YOU can't see them, doesn't mean they aren't up there lining up for a drop. Your job is to see all the airplanes in your sector and if they approach, submerge so you are NEVER seen by a plane.

A plane who is following up on a report of your presence is much more likely to see you than a plane searching "empty ocean."

The game is a bit broken if you don't have SD radar. In real life lookouts spotted planes with lots of time to decide whether the sub had to dive or not. After action reports contain lots of incidents where they spotted the plane, called the skipper up from below and they watched the plane for five minutes before deciding whether to submerge or not. There are lots of similar reports from U-boats. However, in SH4, there are many times when you see the plane, hit the submerge button and still get spotted or dropped on. Adds excitement to the game for sure, but it's not too realistic.