lol, my plane wont turn!!!

TheBrauerHour · 11-17-07, 08:08 PM

Well I reinstalled IL1946, and I feel like the computer planes are flying circles around me. I can't believe I am this bad. Well, there is nothing like alot of practice to fix that, so excuse me while I go wreck some perfectly good virtual airplanes.

Dowly · 11-17-07, 08:15 PM

Well, some planes turn better than others. :p

Also, try not to turn at full pressure, it only slows you down. Every plane has it's ideal turn speed, for example for the 109, the ideal speed is 270-290km/h to get the sharpest turns and in the process, keeping up the speed.

HunterICX · 11-18-07, 09:58 AM

The point where you have to stop pulling that stick further back is when the plane is starting to shake, thats the ''edge'' after that comes Stalling the plane

try to get the feeling of the aircraft's edge in turning progess

HunterICX

XabbaRus · 11-18-07, 11:09 AM

If you want too you can join sub sim aviators in a cmapign me, dowly, Hunter and Kratos are flying. Get teamspeak, Hunter will give you the IP. We usually fly 2200 (gmt +1)

Linton · 11-18-07, 12:51 PM

Corner velocity

Corner velocity /also called corner speed or maneuvering speed/ is an important value for each aircraft. It is determined by plotting the structural limitations /in G forces/ against airspeed. The corner velocity is the minimum speed at which an aircraft can pull its maximum rated Gs. An aircraft at corner velocity attains maximum instantaneous turn performance.

The corner velocity for the F-16A in a stock configuration is 450 knots. This means that at 450 knots the F-16 has its best turn performance. At speeds above the corner speed, turn performance drops off.

Corner speed also affects the minimum turn radius. The size of the turn radius of an aircraft depends on the speed it is traveling. A faster aircraft requires a larger circle to turn in than a slower one. However, the turn redius isn't only a function of speed. It also depends on the number of Gs a pilot pulls during the turn. An aircraft at a constant speed will make a relatively wide circle at 1 G but will turn in a very tight circle at 7 or 8 Gs. The corner velocity is the speed that gives the optimum balance between turn rate and turn radius.

Chock · 11-18-07, 03:41 PM

As Linton and others say, there is a technique born of the knowledge of your aircraft's performance that will yield results in turning well. But also bear in mind that the 'turning and burning' style may not suit the way you like to fight, and recognising what you are best at and prefer to do, is important too.

To be strictly accurate, if you get into a turning fight, it usually means something has gone wrong. Really a fighter pilot's job is to not give the other guy a chance, so forget all that 'Knights of the Air' chivalrous fighting bollocks and shoot em in the ass before they know what's hit them! To adopt that style, you might want to try one of the big Russkie fighters or a big Yank one (stuff like the La-5 or P-47 Thunderbolt, these do not turn well, but they are superior in a 'boom and zoom' type of fight). The preferred technique with these is to get up really high and dive on the enemy making a slashing attack, then don't stick around, use the speed gained in the diving attack to zoom back up to height where you can set up for another slashing attack. If you get it right, you should be fairly invulnerable to enemy fire and turning performance won't matter too much, any aircraft trying to turn and climb up to you will be so devoid of energy you'll simply cut it to pieces when you dive on it. Aces such as Dick Bong were able to knock down nippy little Jap fighters in the much heavier and slower-turning twin-engined P-38 Lightning by doing that kind of thing.

The trick is, when you think you are high enough to launch your attack, get even higher! If you have realistic engine settings on, be aware that you will need to 'lean off' the fuel mixture when you get up high where the air is thin (i.e. pull the mixture lever back), otherwise you'll be putting too much fuel into the engine when it hasn't got much air to breathe, so aircraft with turbochargers (which compress the available air and force it into the engine) are also a wise choice for this kind of fighting. Don't be surprised if you end up with the mixture lever set on as little as 30 percent when up high, and also note that you may have to make the mixture richer in your dive as the air gets thicker and you drop down, but generally speaking, gravity will do most of the work. Watch out if you try this in the Messerschmitt bf109 too; lots of 109 pilots killed themselves by being unable to pull out of a dive and leaving it too late to start pulling that stick back!

If you read most fighter pilot's memoirs, they are anything but chivalrous, usually only engaging when they know they have a good chance to shoot something down without ever getting on the defensive. Manfred Von Richthofen, aka, the Red Baron for example, would often circle above fights and wait for an enemy aircraft to get separated from the furball, at which point he'd drop down on it and it would be all over, as he had the energy advantage and could therefore control the engagement, breaking off at will if he had to. This might not seem fair, but it wasn't his job to be fair, it was his job to kill enemy pilots. This is why he liked the Fokker Dr1 Triplane - not for its turning performance, but rather for its climbing ability which, having three wings, was outstanding.

So maybe turning and burning is not for you. If you perfect it, you can do well with a turning style of fighting, but you'll still be vulnerable to a boom and zoom attack from above. I'd recommend reading up on the service ceiling of the aircraft available to you if you fancy trying the boom and zoom style of fight (there is a pdf file in the main IL-2 folder for this), the service ceiling data is usually a big clue as to suitability for this kind of thing, incidentally, you do need to be a good shot to do well with this method.

And don't forget the most important thing - do whatever you enjoy most.

Chock

TheBrauerHour · 11-18-07, 09:39 PM

Ok, great advice. Thank you all very much. I admit, I was going really fast then trying to turn after flying past the enemy. I will slow down a bit when turning. I really liked seeing old movies about the P-47, so I think I will practice the boom and zoom style mentioned. Thanks again.

Oh yeah, can I get that IP to the TS? I use TS all the time, so it would be kinda cool to fly with yall.

HunterICX · 11-19-07, 04:39 AM

Alright mate, seeying you live in Texas , USA

my guess its -05.00 GMT your timezone,
so when we play usually around 21.00 GMT (22.00 GMT +1 my time)
thats around 18.00 - 19.00 your time?

anyway here's the TS info:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115788

hope to see you soon,

HunterICX

11-17-07, 08:08 PM	#1
TheBrauerHour Mr. Eastwood Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 364 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	lol, my plane wont turn!!! Well I reinstalled IL1946, and I feel like the computer planes are flying circles around me. I can't believe I am this bad. Well, there is nothing like alot of practice to fix that, so excuse me while I go wreck some perfectly good virtual airplanes.

11-18-07, 09:58 AM	#3
HunterICX Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2006 Location: Malaga, España Posts: 10,750 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	The point where you have to stop pulling that stick further back is when the plane is starting to shake, thats the ''edge'' after that comes Stalling the plane try to get the feeling of the aircraft's edge in turning progess HunterICX __________________

11-18-07, 11:09 AM	#4
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	If you want too you can join sub sim aviators in a cmapign me, dowly, Hunter and Kratos are flying. Get teamspeak, Hunter will give you the IP. We usually fly 2200 (gmt +1) __________________

11-18-07, 12:51 PM	#5
Linton Sea Lord Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,898 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Corner velocity Corner velocity /also called corner speed or maneuvering speed/ is an important value for each aircraft. It is determined by plotting the structural limitations /in G forces/ against airspeed. The corner velocity is the minimum speed at which an aircraft can pull its maximum rated Gs. An aircraft at corner velocity attains maximum instantaneous turn performance. The corner velocity for the F-16A in a stock configuration is 450 knots. This means that at 450 knots the F-16 has its best turn performance. At speeds above the corner speed, turn performance drops off. Corner speed also affects the minimum turn radius. The size of the turn radius of an aircraft depends on the speed it is traveling. A faster aircraft requires a larger circle to turn in than a slower one. However, the turn redius isn't only a function of speed. It also depends on the number of Gs a pilot pulls during the turn. An aircraft at a constant speed will make a relatively wide circle at 1 G but will turn in a very tight circle at 7 or 8 Gs. The corner velocity is the speed that gives the optimum balance between turn rate and turn radius. __________________ http://lintonsview.blogspot.com/

11-18-07, 03:41 PM	#6
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	As Linton and others say, there is a technique born of the knowledge of your aircraft's performance that will yield results in turning well. But also bear in mind that the 'turning and burning' style may not suit the way you like to fight, and recognising what you are best at and prefer to do, is important too. To be strictly accurate, if you get into a turning fight, it usually means something has gone wrong. Really a fighter pilot's job is to not give the other guy a chance, so forget all that 'Knights of the Air' chivalrous fighting bollocks and shoot em in the ass before they know what's hit them! To adopt that style, you might want to try one of the big Russkie fighters or a big Yank one (stuff like the La-5 or P-47 Thunderbolt, these do not turn well, but they are superior in a 'boom and zoom' type of fight). The preferred technique with these is to get up really high and dive on the enemy making a slashing attack, then don't stick around, use the speed gained in the diving attack to zoom back up to height where you can set up for another slashing attack. If you get it right, you should be fairly invulnerable to enemy fire and turning performance won't matter too much, any aircraft trying to turn and climb up to you will be so devoid of energy you'll simply cut it to pieces when you dive on it. Aces such as Dick Bong were able to knock down nippy little Jap fighters in the much heavier and slower-turning twin-engined P-38 Lightning by doing that kind of thing. The trick is, when you think you are high enough to launch your attack, get even higher! If you have realistic engine settings on, be aware that you will need to 'lean off' the fuel mixture when you get up high where the air is thin (i.e. pull the mixture lever back), otherwise you'll be putting too much fuel into the engine when it hasn't got much air to breathe, so aircraft with turbochargers (which compress the available air and force it into the engine) are also a wise choice for this kind of fighting. Don't be surprised if you end up with the mixture lever set on as little as 30 percent when up high, and also note that you may have to make the mixture richer in your dive as the air gets thicker and you drop down, but generally speaking, gravity will do most of the work. Watch out if you try this in the Messerschmitt bf109 too; lots of 109 pilots killed themselves by being unable to pull out of a dive and leaving it too late to start pulling that stick back! If you read most fighter pilot's memoirs, they are anything but chivalrous, usually only engaging when they know they have a good chance to shoot something down without ever getting on the defensive. Manfred Von Richthofen, aka, the Red Baron for example, would often circle above fights and wait for an enemy aircraft to get separated from the furball, at which point he'd drop down on it and it would be all over, as he had the energy advantage and could therefore control the engagement, breaking off at will if he had to. This might not seem fair, but it wasn't his job to be fair, it was his job to kill enemy pilots. This is why he liked the Fokker Dr1 Triplane - not for its turning performance, but rather for its climbing ability which, having three wings, was outstanding. So maybe turning and burning is not for you. If you perfect it, you can do well with a turning style of fighting, but you'll still be vulnerable to a boom and zoom attack from above. I'd recommend reading up on the service ceiling of the aircraft available to you if you fancy trying the boom and zoom style of fight (there is a pdf file in the main IL-2 folder for this), the service ceiling data is usually a big clue as to suitability for this kind of thing, incidentally, you do need to be a good shot to do well with this method. And don't forget the most important thing - do whatever you enjoy most. Chock __________________

11-17-07, 08:15 PM	#2
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,005 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Well, some planes turn better than others. :p Also, try not to turn at full pressure, it only slows you down. Every plane has it's ideal turn speed, for example for the 109, the ideal speed is 270-290km/h to get the sharpest turns and in the process, keeping up the speed.

11-18-07, 09:39 PM	#7
TheBrauerHour Mr. Eastwood Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 364 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Ok, great advice. Thank you all very much. I admit, I was going really fast then trying to turn after flying past the enemy. I will slow down a bit when turning. I really liked seeing old movies about the P-47, so I think I will practice the boom and zoom style mentioned. Thanks again. Oh yeah, can I get that IP to the TS? I use TS all the time, so it would be kinda cool to fly with yall.

11-19-07, 04:39 AM	#8
HunterICX Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2006 Location: Malaga, España Posts: 10,750 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Alright mate, seeying you live in Texas , USA my guess its -05.00 GMT your timezone, so when we play usually around 21.00 GMT (22.00 GMT +1 my time) thats around 18.00 - 19.00 your time? anyway here's the TS info: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115788 hope to see you soon, HunterICX __________________