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Old 06-19-2017, 03:25 AM   #166
gap
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Originally Posted by Kendras View Post
It depends. I prefer as terrain object because it's much easier, but we may add them as land units if you want. Side effects can be cured. This has already been explained by me :

As terrain location :

 
PROS :
+ icon is always visible on the navigation map, it's also possible to add colors to the icon
+ always placed at the same altitude, whatever the depth of the sea
+ no collision spheres to add to the 3D model

CONS:
- 3D model can be hidden underground if placed on land
- not possible to custom the LH with an .eqp file


As land unit :


 
PROS :
+ will always be placed on the ground
+ possible to custom the LH with an .eqp file


CONS:
- altitude depending on the depth of the sea (3D model submerged in deep areas)
- icon visible on the map only when in visual range, always green icon (for neutral units)
(can be solved by this trick : a land unit with no icon, and a terrain location at exactly the same placement, without 3D model but with an icon always visible on the map)
- collision spheres to add (can be solved by this trick : only the reef is a terrain location (not placed on the sea bed), and the lighthouse is a land unit and is placed directly on the sea bed)
You have already found a workaround to overcome the icon problem. As for the rest:

- altitude depending on the depth of the sea (3D model submerged in deep areas)
The lighthouse "main unit" can be made into an hidden simple mesh which will always lay at the soil/seabed level. This basic unit can be proxy-cloned as many times as the lighthouses that we want to add in game (proxy cloning is the process of duplicating an unit by cfg file, without actually duplicating its dat file). Lighthouse models themselves and, where they apply, the rocks/shoals under them, can be stored in a library file and linked to a couple of eqp nodes in the dummy unit. In this way we can finetune the height of each offshore lighthouse + its rocky base by changing (in Wings3D) their vertical (Y) position in global coordinates.
I will make any effort to give those models the correct heights from the beginning. The height (absolute and AMSL) of most lighthouses around the world is given in the website that I pointed you to a few days ago. Knowing that, I calculate the correct height for the rock model based on the approximate sea depth at each location, as measured in Google Earth. As long as sea depths are more or less correct in SHIII, by following this method we should get fairly accurate results and minimize the need of doing many adjustements. Should we notice that the seabottom is too deep where we want to place a given lighthouse, that would mean that devs got it way off, but we can always raise it using Terrain Extractor. I can deal with that.
For generic offshore lighthouses that we want to place at different locations, I can do their rock models higher than it is usually needed, and we can link them to customized dat units whose equipment nodes can be placed at different heights depending on the need.


- collision spheres to add
Not necessarily. If we want ligthouses to take damage some collision spheres and damage zone boxes might be needed, but for what I have in mind, doing our "moudular" lighthouses damageable/destroyable might do things a bit too complicated and I am not even sure that we would succeed.
At least for a start, we can keep things simple by getting rid of the zon file/ColisionableObject controller at the unit level, and by adding StaticObject controller and colllision meshes (as for terrain objects) to each rock/lighthouse in the library folder instead. I have already tested this method in SH5, and it works like a charm. It should work for SHIII too

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Originally Posted by Kendras View Post
So, why not as land unit, but for what benefits ?

Tou mean attacks by british airplanes ? Lights not working only during war ? I don't guess what you are thinking about ... please clarify.
Have you read the essay that I pointed you to yesterday?
Air raids over our lighthouses would be a nice side effect, though I am not sure that they would happen (IIRC in SH5, where land unit interaction with other unit types is severely bugged, ship and aircraft just ignore coastal defences; I don't know if the same applies to SHIII too).

By making lighthouses into units and by playing with their eqp files we can:
  • change the type of light they emit, where/if justified by historical accounts (early during the war, most belligerents dimmed their light beacons so not to offer obvious landmarks in the event of enemy night bombings);

  • switch them on/off during the course of the war, following a realistic pattern (at least in France, soon or later most lighthouses were switched off permanently, Manche, Finistère and offshore lighthouses being the first and Mediterranean lighthouse being the last to be obscured; I a m still looking for detailed information on other countries);

  • where historically accurate, remove some lighthouses from map and possibly replace them by date with smoking ruins (as you know, some lighthouses didn't make it through the war).

There might be other uses of my idea, but those are the main points. I hope I have been clearer now

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What country are you from ?
On est voisins: je suis italien
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:10 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gap View Post
The lighthouse "main unit" can be made into an hidden simple mesh which will always lay at the soil/seabed level. This basic unit can be proxy-cloned as many times as the lighthouses that we want to add in game (proxy cloning is the process of duplicating an unit by cfg file, without actually duplicating its dat file).
I don't understand.

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Originally Posted by gap View Post
Lighthouse models themselves and, where they apply, the rocks/shoals under them, can be stored in a library file and linked to a couple of eqp nodes in the dummy unit. In this way we can finetune the height of each offshore lighthouse + its rocky base by changing (in Wings3D) their vertical (Y) position in global coordinates.
OK. So, tell me if I understand correctly in this example : specific lighthouses types 3D models are created and placed into a .dat file, also the ruins models of specific lighthouses, and also different types of lights (color, duration, etc.). For one lighthouse, the node is cloned (without the 3D model) and placed at different altitudes (the name of one node is for example : "Generic_LH_no4_30m")

The .dat file of one specific lighthouse (LH_no4) is created and contains only one node : "X01". In the .eqp file you will create different "loadouts". For the loadout of 30m depth sea, you will write "X01=Generic_LH_no4_30m", and so on. So in the mission editor, you will be able to choose the correct altitude. But consequently, you must place the light type eqp node (let's say "X02") directly in the .dat file containing all the lighthouses, and I don't know if it is possible to controll it in the .eqp file of the specific lighthouse ("X02=Red_light_no7" ?).

It would be easier to raise the sea level at the same depth for each lighthouse we want to place at sea !

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Originally Posted by gap View Post
At least for a start, we can keep things simple by getting rid of the zon file/ColisionableObject controller at the unit level, and by adding StaticObject controller and colllision meshes (as for terrain objects) to each rock/lighthouse in the library folder instead. I have already tested this method in SH5, and it works like a charm. It should work for SHIII too.
I was thinking about the rock which must be collisionable. I didn't know that the StaticObject controller could work with a land unit. So, what are the collision spheres useful for ?

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Originally Posted by gap View Post
Have you read the essay that I pointed you to yesterday?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gap View Post
Air raids over our lighthouses would be a nice side effect, though I am not sure that they would happen (IIRC in SH5, where land unit interaction with other unit types is severely bugged, ship and aircraft just ignore coastal defences; I don't know if the same applies to SHIII too).
In SH3, airplanes always attack ennemy land units.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:44 AM   #168
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Imagine a dat file which (likewise SHIII harbors) only contains a node skeleton that all the lighthouse parts will be attached to; one node for the rocky base, one for the ligthouse building, one for the lens/lamp, etc.
All these parts will be stored in an external library file and linked to the "skeletal" dat file through eqp files customized for each lighthouse. If need be, we can switch those parts on/off by date, using the usual Start and EndDate settings.

The same dat file can be shared by different lighthouse models set as "proxy clones", i.e. copies of a unit that use the same dat, zon, sim etc. files as their parent unit, but have customized cfg, eqp and sns files. If you have ever messed with SHIV or SH5, you will understand instantly what I am talking about, otherwise you will undesrtand when I send you the files.

What will be different from a lighthouse to the other, will be its unique eqp file, and the model parts that by mean of each eqp file will be linked to the common skeleton.

Let's talk about the vertical position of each lighthouse now. Onshore lighthouses will be placed directly on the land surface, and they wont pose any problem. As for offshore lighthouses, they are placed on the seabed, and we risk them to be totally submerged if the sea bottom is too deep at the desired position, or to stand too high if the is the sea bottom is too shallow. What I can do for overcoming the problem, is making the rocky base a bit higher than expectedly needed. If we notice that a lighthouse lays too low/high on the water surface, I will move the lighthouse together with the relative rock model a bit up/down using Wings3D. This method applies to unique lighthouses which are to be found in a single location on the map. For generic lighthouses the process will be similar, but since they will share the same 3D models, we wont be allowed to play with model coordinates, because what will be okay in a certain location, wont be possibly acceptable in another location. What we can do, is linking those models to customized skeletal dat files whose equipment linking nodes will have different heights, i.e. instead of moving up and down model coordinates, we will move up and down the posiotion of nodes that those models will be attached to.
In both cases, terrain editing will be desiderable and possibly needed if the diffrence between RL depths and in-game depths will be too high.

Answering your question about the CollisionableObject vs StaticObject controller: yes, as I stated before, after intensive testing in SH5 I can confirm that the latter can be placed on unit equipments as well as on terrain objects with no side effects that I know of. I have not tried placing it directly on an unit, but I guess it would work too.
The similarity of the two controllers is that they both make objects that they are attached to collisionable. End of the similarities. Beside the visible mesh, a CollisionableObject controller requires a collision mesh to work. No collision spheres nor damage boxes are involved. It is much simpler to use, but it won't cause objects to take damage from collisions, bullets or nearby explosions. That's why it is called static: it makes 3D objects as solid as a rock and, as a side note, there are some oddities related with its usage:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=3372

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...22&postcount=4

LOL
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:32 AM   #169
Kendras
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Originally Posted by gap View Post
If you have ever messed with SHIV or SH5, you will understand instantly what I am talking about, otherwise you will undesrtand when I send you the files.
OK, let's see concretely what's your solution !

If you want to send me your files on my mediafire page, I will send you a link by PM. But you need first to make some place in your mail box.

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Old 06-20-2017, 12:45 PM   #170
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Default Tourelle de La Plate...

...an appetizer


Model and textures are pretty much ready for being imported in game.

The cool black/yellow paintwork is in accordance with modern photos, but it might not be the very accurate for the 40s. I have not information directly related to this particular lighthouse, but analogous light beacons around the West coast of France have been given a similar role (cardinal mark) and paint scheme much later. Any idea on what might have been the original colour of this one?

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Last edited by gap; 07-08-2017 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 06-20-2017, 02:15 PM   #171
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...an appetizer


Model and textures are pretty much ready for being imported in game.
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Old 06-24-2017, 07:43 AM   #172
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Icon12 Did my homework



Sea depth for offshore lighthouses :

2- Le Petit Minou : -19
4- La Vieille and La Plate : -17
6- Tévennec : -22
7- Ar-Men : -85
8- Pierres-Noires : -48
10- Kéréon : -17
11- La Jument : -26
13- Four : -17

Additional note :

5- Sein and Men-Brial : the island must be created (terrain editor)


Icons placed on the map :




Else, the coordinates for mission editor :

 
Name=Portzic
Long=-544270.000000
Lat=5803614.000000

Name=Le Petit Minou
Long=-554201.000000
Lat=5800608.000000

Name=Kermorvan
Long=-574997.000000
Lat=5804010.000000

Name=Le Four
Long=-577376.000000
Lat=5823799.000000

Name=Kéréon
Long=-603256.000000
Lat=5811679.000000

Name=La Jument
Long=-614226.000000
Lat=5812149.000000

Name=Créac'h
Long=-615556.000000
Lat=5815379.000000

Name=Saint Mathieu
Long=-572852.000000
Lat=5800059.000000

Name=Les Pierres Noires
Long=-587788.000000
Lat=5797020.000000

Name=Le Toulinguet
Long=-555833.000000
Lat=5794157.000000

Name=Kador
Long=-540075.000000
Lat=5786895.000000

Name=La Vieille
Long=-570860.000000
Lat=5765210.000000

Name=Sein
Long=-582950.000000
Lat=5765330.000000

Name=Ar-Men
Long=-598150.000000
Lat=5766130.000000

Name=Tévennec
Long=-575202.000000
Lat=5769404.000000

Name=La Plate
Long=-571477.000000
Lat=5764959.000000

Name=Men-Brial
Long=-581527.000000
Lat=5764959.000000



Last edited by Kendras; 06-24-2017 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 06-28-2017, 05:11 PM   #173
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For Brest harbour entrance, I will need lights like that :



http://www.phares-et-balises.fr/page...6&Numero=33201

Please, can you quickly model them for me Gap ?
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:12 AM   #174
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Gap, when do you think your two first lighthouses are ready to test ?
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Old 07-09-2017, 01:40 PM   #175
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Gap, when do you think your two first lighthouses are ready to test ?
Yesterday, after belatedly reading your request on the WIP Brest harbour thread, I started working on the Tour de Tanguy. The model that you pointed me to is nice, but I decided to use it as template for creating a better model, with 3D details (windows, doors, stairs, eaves, etc.) but simplified base geometry (for keeping poly count acceptably low). This is what I've got so far:



The tourelle de la Plate model is fully completed. I have only been lazy in importing it in S3d and setting it up for game usage. I promise I will send you the files later tonight or tomorrow
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Old 07-09-2017, 03:54 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gap View Post
Yesterday, after belatedly reading your request on the WIP Brest harbour thread, I started working on the Tour de Tanguy. The model that you pointed me to is nice, but I decided to use it as template for creating a better model, with 3D details (windows, doors, stairs, eaves, etc.) but simplified base geometry (for keeping poly count acceptably low). This is what I've got so far:

Wow !!!!! That's WONDERFUL !!!!!!

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The tourelle de la Plate model is fully completed. I have only been lazy in importing it in S3d and setting it up for game usage. I promise I will send you the files later tonight or tomorrow
With La Vieille lighthouse ?
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Old 07-09-2017, 04:54 PM   #177
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Wow !!!!! That's WONDERFUL !!!!!!
I always liked very much French architecture, and this ancient tower makes no exception. I hope my model will make justice to it

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With La Vieille lighthouse ?
La Vielle still requires some work. I will finish it while you experiment with the placement of the other lighthouse
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:54 PM   #178
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The tourelle de la Plate model is fully completed. I promise I will send you the files later tonight or tomorrow
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Old 07-10-2017, 04:32 PM   #179
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Working on it right now. Are you going to be there in half an hour?
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Old 07-10-2017, 04:41 PM   #180
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Working on it right now. Are you going to be there in half an hour?
Yes.
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