Sub Command -- Speed seems to change too quickly

artao · 11-10-14, 12:08 AM

I just re-installed Sub Command last night. It's been several years since i last played it (once I got SHIII, I virtually abandoned nuke subs

).
So I updated it and installed SCX2/SCU .. before ever even opening the game once. After troubleshooting some graphics issues, I started up the 688i campaign.
SO! Here's the thing. It seems the 688i changes speed WAY too quickly. Like, just a few seconds to go from 15kt to 3kt. And not much slower to increase speed. ... Once I noticed this, I remembered seeing that previously while playing SC, and finding it frustrating and immersion-killing. MOST of my nuke sub time has been in the classic 688, of course, and in that the speed up/slow down times were MUCH longer.
I'm guessing this is some sort of bug, and am really hoping there's a fix for it. From all my reading, it's my understanding that subs do NOT speed up or slow down particularly quickly, which has led to numerous accidents over the years. ... The subs in SC seem to have "water brakes" or something.
I sure do hope this can be fixed.

And I also hope this forum/game is active enough that I actually get a response to this LOL
It's likely that I'll pick up DW this coming week or so, however. .. I sure hope this issue doesn't remain in that game.

FPSchazly · 11-11-14, 08:24 AM

Nope, sorry, that's just how it is in Sub Command

Doesn't make any sense to me, either. You'll also notice, if you haven't already, that if you order a course change, your ship instantly starts changing course at the rate of change it'll take through the whole turn. What I mean by that is there's no increase or decrease in the rate of change through the turn which would happen from the rudder moving from 0 to whatever angle it has to be and then coming back to 0 again.

If you don't want these problems, yes, get Dangerous Waters. There are much more advanced ship dynamics in that. If you start a turn at 15 knots and reduce speed to 5 knots, you will overshoot the turn because of the large amount of momentum. Speed up and slow down is a lot slower, but the slow down still isn't as slow as I'd like. The ship will actually roll, too, unlike in Sub Command.

Tom Clancy SSN actually has some real good ship dynamics, in my opinion, but that's a very arcade-like game. You can actually employ "sprint and drift" effectively. Slow down takes a while in that game, and it seems water drag is modeled at least proportional to accurate drag. By that, I mean that you lose speed more quickly at higher speeds because the force of drag is proportional to the square of velocity. At lower speeds, it can take forever to lose speed.

artao · 11-11-14, 11:18 AM

DANG!

I was afraid of that. Thanks for the reply!

Now that you mention the course change issue, yeah, I see that. I hadn't really thought about it or noticed it.
So, yeah ... Dangerous Waters it is then. Looks like I can get several mods for it as well ... but which one? hmmm

FPSchazly · 11-11-14, 02:52 PM

Well, unlike what I've heard about the Silent Hunters in that they're almost not worth playing without mods, I think Dangerous Waters is very playable without mods. In fact, I've never consistently used any mods with Dangerous Waters and I have more hours in that game than I can count. But, that's all up to you.

artao · 11-14-14, 06:31 AM

Well, I did it ... Bought Dangerous Waters yesterday on Steam.
LOVE IT!!! ... yeah, I see what you mean about the speed changes. Better than SC, but not quite like 688(i) ... sprint-and-drift will be hard, if even possible ...... of course, I've only played one mission so far, with the 688(i) .. I forget the name, but it was recovering a SEAL team from near Vladivostok .. fun. Managed to evade two torpedoes on the way out.
and BOY!! Auto-TMA crew is MUCH worse at it than the SC auto-crew. wow
..
no mods installed yet, but I will be. Just not sure if I'll go with RA/DWX or LWAMI .. I DLed both ... and, of course, I'll be installing the dipping sonar fix and sonobuouy channel fix "mods"/patches.

FPSchazly · 11-14-14, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artao

Well, I did it ... Bought Dangerous Waters yesterday on Steam.
LOVE IT!!! ... yeah, I see what you mean about the speed changes. Better than SC, but not quite like 688(i) ... sprint-and-drift will be hard, if even possible ...... of course, I've only played one mission so far, with the 688(i) .. I forget the name, but it was recovering a SEAL team from near Vladivostok .. fun. Managed to evade two torpedoes on the way out.
and BOY!! Auto-TMA crew is MUCH worse at it than the SC auto-crew. wow
..
no mods installed yet, but I will be. Just not sure if I'll go with RA/DWX or LWAMI .. I DLed both ... and, of course, I'll be installing the dipping sonar fix and sonobuouy channel fix "mods"/patches.

Give your TMA a few course changes and they'll nail that solution down lol. It also gives you an excuse to learn TMA for yourself! *hint hint, wink wink*

12-10-15, 09:34 AM

I watched the start of your movie sub Command Akula Campaign.

The intro part of the movie, is that part of the original intro to Sub Command?

I have the Naval Combat Pack and for Sub Command I don't haven't seen it. I see the intro for Fleet Command and 688(i) but no joy for SC.

If it is part of the intro, any idea on how to activate?

FPSchazly · 12-10-15, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ab067

I watched the start of your movie sub Command Akula Campaign.

The intro part of the movie, is that part of the original intro to Sub Command?

I have the Naval Combat Pack and for Sub Command I don't haven't seen it. I see the intro for Fleet Command and 688(i) but no joy for SC.

If it is part of the intro, any idea on how to activate?

Glad to hear it!

I play my Sub Command off Steam and I, too, have no joy with the intro movie. I still have my CD-ROM copy of Sub Command, which I installed just to get that intro movie haha. I'm not sure if that intro movie is in some kind of readily readable format in the Sub Command directory of Steam or not.

12-11-15, 05:18 AM

My NWP is from amazon, not Steam.

I guess I'll have to hunt around to get an original dvd of Sub Command.

12-11-15, 05:34 AM

btw, does the original CD of Sub Command require an online activation and key code? Ie is it safe to buy a previously used version of the game?

...updated....Just picked up a new copy of Strategy First SC off Amazon.

FPSchazly · 12-11-15, 09:15 AM

SCS never got that advanced with their stuff, no online association with a key.

Pisces · 12-11-15, 04:20 PM

I did have to enter a key during the installation of SC that was printed on the manual in the box (Electronic Arts release), but it didn't need to be online to phone home and verify.

12-14-15, 04:49 PM

I'll let you know about the Strategy First SC disk when it arrives.

FPSchazly ...... I'm slowly going through your videos and enjoying them.

The DW tutorials, is the info applicable for 688(i) and Sub Command?

The interphases seem very close between them and I know Sonalyst made all of the games. I have DW but I am enjoying the nostalgia of 688(i) which I never tried when it first came out.

FPSchazly · 12-14-15, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ab067

I'll let you know about the Strategy First SC disk when it arrives.

FPSchazly ...... I'm slowly going through your videos and enjoying them.

The DW tutorials, is the info applicable for 688(i) and Sub Command?

The interphases seem very close between them and I know Sonalyst made all of the games. I have DW but I am enjoying the nostalgia of 688(i) which I never tried when it first came out.

Glad you like them! They are most definitely applicable for Sub Command and probably 688(I). I've never played 688(I). There are some slight differences between DW and Sub Command, but it's nothing major, in my opinion.

12-30-15, 06:35 PM

Ok, from my collection of 3 versions of Sub Command:

The Naval Combat Pack version of SC is patched to 1.08, has a single disk and has no intro video. No code required to be entered to activate.

The Strategy First version is also patched to 1.08, has a single disk and has no intro video. No code required to be entered to activate.

The Electronic Arts version is not patched and is version 1.00. It has 2 disks and has the intro video. During installation you are required to enter a code with 22 numbers.

11-10-14, 12:08 AM	#1
artao Officer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 238 Downloads: 144 Uploads: 0	Sub Command -- Speed seems to change too quickly I just re-installed Sub Command last night. It's been several years since i last played it (once I got SHIII, I virtually abandoned nuke subs ). So I updated it and installed SCX2/SCU .. before ever even opening the game once. After troubleshooting some graphics issues, I started up the 688i campaign. SO! Here's the thing. It seems the 688i changes speed WAY too quickly. Like, just a few seconds to go from 15kt to 3kt. And not much slower to increase speed. ... Once I noticed this, I remembered seeing that previously while playing SC, and finding it frustrating and immersion-killing. MOST of my nuke sub time has been in the classic 688, of course, and in that the speed up/slow down times were MUCH longer. I'm guessing this is some sort of bug, and am really hoping there's a fix for it. From all my reading, it's my understanding that subs do NOT speed up or slow down particularly quickly, which has led to numerous accidents over the years. ... The subs in SC seem to have "water brakes" or something. I sure do hope this can be fixed. And I also hope this forum/game is active enough that I actually get a response to this LOL It's likely that I'll pick up DW this coming week or so, however. .. I sure hope this issue doesn't remain in that game. __________________ l8r, artao

11-11-14, 08:24 AM	#2
FPSchazly Good Hunting! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Maryland Posts: 771 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 1	Nope, sorry, that's just how it is in Sub Command Doesn't make any sense to me, either. You'll also notice, if you haven't already, that if you order a course change, your ship instantly starts changing course at the rate of change it'll take through the whole turn. What I mean by that is there's no increase or decrease in the rate of change through the turn which would happen from the rudder moving from 0 to whatever angle it has to be and then coming back to 0 again. If you don't want these problems, yes, get Dangerous Waters. There are much more advanced ship dynamics in that. If you start a turn at 15 knots and reduce speed to 5 knots, you will overshoot the turn because of the large amount of momentum. Speed up and slow down is a lot slower, but the slow down still isn't as slow as I'd like. The ship will actually roll, too, unlike in Sub Command. Tom Clancy SSN actually has some real good ship dynamics, in my opinion, but that's a very arcade-like game. You can actually employ "sprint and drift" effectively. Slow down takes a while in that game, and it seems water drag is modeled at least proportional to accurate drag. By that, I mean that you lose speed more quickly at higher speeds because the force of drag is proportional to the square of velocity. At lower speeds, it can take forever to lose speed. __________________ Your friendly neighborhood modern submarine YouTuber. My videos: Exclusive Look at Modern Naval Warfare! Dangerous Waters Liu Doctrine (LwAmi Learn to play Dangerous Waters

11-11-14, 11:18 AM	#3
artao Officer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 238 Downloads: 144 Uploads: 0	DANG! I was afraid of that. Thanks for the reply! Now that you mention the course change issue, yeah, I see that. I hadn't really thought about it or noticed it. So, yeah ... Dangerous Waters it is then. Looks like I can get several mods for it as well ... but which one? hmmm __________________ l8r, artao

11-11-14, 02:52 PM	#4
FPSchazly Good Hunting! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Maryland Posts: 771 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 1	Well, unlike what I've heard about the Silent Hunters in that they're almost not worth playing without mods, I think Dangerous Waters is very playable without mods. In fact, I've never consistently used any mods with Dangerous Waters and I have more hours in that game than I can count. But, that's all up to you. __________________ Your friendly neighborhood modern submarine YouTuber. My videos: Exclusive Look at Modern Naval Warfare! Dangerous Waters Liu Doctrine (LwAmi Learn to play Dangerous Waters

11-14-14, 06:31 AM	#5
artao Officer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 238 Downloads: 144 Uploads: 0	Well, I did it ... Bought Dangerous Waters yesterday on Steam. LOVE IT!!! ... yeah, I see what you mean about the speed changes. Better than SC, but not quite like 688(i) ... sprint-and-drift will be hard, if even possible ...... of course, I've only played one mission so far, with the 688(i) .. I forget the name, but it was recovering a SEAL team from near Vladivostok .. fun. Managed to evade two torpedoes on the way out. and BOY!! Auto-TMA crew is MUCH worse at it than the SC auto-crew. wow .. no mods installed yet, but I will be. Just not sure if I'll go with RA/DWX or LWAMI .. I DLed both ... and, of course, I'll be installing the dipping sonar fix and sonobuouy channel fix "mods"/patches. __________________ l8r, artao

12-10-15, 09:34 AM	#7
ab067 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I watched the start of your movie sub Command Akula Campaign. The intro part of the movie, is that part of the original intro to Sub Command? I have the Naval Combat Pack and for Sub Command I don't haven't seen it. I see the intro for Fleet Command and 688(i) but no joy for SC. If it is part of the intro, any idea on how to activate?

12-11-15, 05:18 AM	#9
ab067 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	My NWP is from amazon, not Steam. I guess I'll have to hunt around to get an original dvd of Sub Command.

12-11-15, 05:34 AM	#10
ab067 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	btw, does the original CD of Sub Command require an online activation and key code? Ie is it safe to buy a previously used version of the game? ...updated....Just picked up a new copy of Strategy First SC off Amazon. Last edited by ab067; 12-11-15 at 06:06 AM.

12-11-15, 09:15 AM	#11
FPSchazly Good Hunting! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Maryland Posts: 771 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 1	SCS never got that advanced with their stuff, no online association with a key. __________________ Your friendly neighborhood modern submarine YouTuber. My videos: Exclusive Look at Modern Naval Warfare! Dangerous Waters Liu Doctrine (LwAmi Learn to play Dangerous Waters

12-11-15, 04:20 PM	#12
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,892 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 0	I did have to enter a key during the installation of SC that was printed on the manual in the box (Electronic Arts release), but it didn't need to be online to phone home and verify.

12-14-15, 04:49 PM	#13
ab067 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I'll let you know about the Strategy First SC disk when it arrives. FPSchazly ...... I'm slowly going through your videos and enjoying them. The DW tutorials, is the info applicable for 688(i) and Sub Command? The interphases seem very close between them and I know Sonalyst made all of the games. I have DW but I am enjoying the nostalgia of 688(i) which I never tried when it first came out.

12-30-15, 06:35 PM	#15
ab067 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Ok, from my collection of 3 versions of Sub Command: The Naval Combat Pack version of SC is patched to 1.08, has a single disk and has no intro video. No code required to be entered to activate. The Strategy First version is also patched to 1.08, has a single disk and has no intro video. No code required to be entered to activate. The Electronic Arts version is not patched and is version 1.00. It has 2 disks and has the intro video. During installation you are required to enter a code with 22 numbers.