Individual protestors in Russia

ikalugin · 12-09-17, 07:27 AM

I was walking down the street and met a number of individual protestors:
(photographs taken with their permission)

They are protesting against the insufficient soverenity of Russia and call for a change of constition via referendum.

p.s. found their manifesto (google translation from Russian):
https://translate.google.ru/translat...-text=&act=url

Jimbuna · 12-09-17, 08:54 AM

I would imagine any outcome should it ever be forthcoming would depend largely on the stance Putin takes.

ikalugin · 12-09-17, 10:45 AM

From my understanding they believe that Russia is a colony of western powers and that the Russian Goverment acts on behalf of said western powers. Hence they appear to demand the change in constitution, namely to lift the ban on state ideology and to reinstate that Russian laws take precedence over Russian international agreements.

I think they are just a bunch of amusing urban crazies and they appear to be fairly harmless if deluded.

Kazuaki Shimazaki II · 12-09-17, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

to reinstate that Russian laws take precedence over Russian international agreements.

Didn't the Constitutional Court already say that (and on the merits, AFAIK they used zakon for that part, which does mean statute rather than law)? Or is the new idea that the international agreements should be inferior to the statutes?

Catfish · 12-09-17, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

They are protesting against the insufficient soverenity of Russia and call for a change of constition via referendum.

What does that mean. More sovereignity of Russia in the world? More sovereignty compared to whom? Within the former borders of the iron curtain? More sovereigny for the people compared to Putin?

From the manifesto:
"The liberation of the Russian Federation from the colonial dependence of the United States by restoring Sovereignty through a referendum on changing the constitution."

WTF? The colonial dependence of Russia.. from the United States??! I thought it were british, french, german and russian people who founded the United States. And then liberated the latter from english dominance. lmao

So in short, Putin has paid a few people to demonstrate, so that russian patriots grant him more power in the next elections. MaRGA! (Make Russia great again (tm))

Commander Wallace · 12-09-17, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

WTF? The colonial dependence of Russia.. from the United States??! I thought it were british, french, german and russian people who founded the United States. And then liberated the latter from english dominance. lmao

To that you can add the Irish, Scots and Wales who helped found the United States. Later it was also the poles and Italians.

August · 12-09-17, 01:57 PM

Well we did send them Steven Seagal...

Mr Quatro · 12-09-17, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

So in short, Putin has paid a few people to demonstrate, so that russian patriots grant him more power in the next elections.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-0...n-2018/9234204

Russia election: President Vladimir Putin will run in re-election next March

Quote:

Russian President Vladimir Putin has announced he will seek re-election next March, a contest opinion polls show he will win comfortably, setting the stage for him to extend his dominance of Russia's political landscape into a third decade.

Mr Putin, 65, has been in power, either as president or prime minister, since 2000. If he wins what would be a fourth presidential term in March, he would be eligible to serve another six years until 2024.

Commander Wallace · 12-09-17, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Well we did send them Steven Seagal...

Seems like a fair trade. Seagal is a world champion in the art of bullshi(do)

fireftr18 · 12-09-17, 03:15 PM

Are they wearing tin foil under their hats so that the United States satellites can't read their minds?

propbeanie · 12-09-17, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-0...n-2018/9234204

Russia election: President Vladimir Putin will run in re-election next March

See... PR... or BS, as the case may be... "Putin for Supreme Leader for Life!!!" will be the "protesters" next motto...

A Czar is born! A light, a light, shining far and bright...

Catfish · 12-10-17, 11:06 AM

You do not get more international reputation or more sovereignty just by changing some text in the constitution.
(Or maybe yes, if you change it to some democratic standards, and live by it. But i guess this is out of the question here.)

The best thing is how it is formulated, how the people "beg" Putin, to "serve" the people of Russia.. lmao.

ikalugin · 12-11-17, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireftr18

Are they wearing tin foil under their hats so that the United States satellites can't read their minds?

More or less yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

What does that mean. More sovereignity of Russia in the world? More sovereignty compared to whom? Within the former borders of the iron curtain? More sovereigny for the people compared to Putin?

From the manifesto:
"The liberation of the Russian Federation from the colonial dependence of the United States by restoring Sovereignty through a referendum on changing the constitution."

WTF? The colonial dependence of Russia.. from the United States??! I thought it were british, french, german and russian people who founded the United States. And then liberated the latter from english dominance. lmao

So in short, Putin has paid a few people to demonstrate, so that russian patriots grant him more power in the next elections. MaRGA! (Make Russia great again (tm))

From my understanding they are a marginal, horizontal, grass roots movement of urban crazies. Interestingly enough they do not appear to be racially, etc biggoted, unlike the bulk of other hard right organisations.

The whole "colony" aspect is about how they perceive that decisions by Russian Goverment (in the broad sense, ie they think that ruble emission is some sort of conspiracy0 are dictated by western powers (ie USA) and in interest of western powers (ie USA), with the dependence being formally/institutionally cemented in documents like the constitution.

p.s. the danger here is to attribute everything happening in Russia (and globally) to some nefarious plan of Putin, because you are not just demonising the man, you are generating a perverse cult of personality.

ikalugin · 12-11-17, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

You do not get more international reputation or more sovereignty just by changing some text in the constitution.
(Or maybe yes, if you change it to some democratic standards, and live by it. But i guess this is out of the question here.)

The best thing is how it is formulated, how the people "beg" Putin, to "serve" the people of Russia.. lmao.

Constitution text, in my opinion, is fine with possible need for clarifying the article 15, ie that constitution takes precedence over international agreements and federal laws.

ikalugin · 12-11-17, 07:33 AM

Some interesting polls for the context:

Levada is a -foreighn agent- polling organisation in Russia.

Levada polling on public opinion regarding responsibility for the positive and negative developments:
https://translate.google.ru/translat...-text=&act=url
Some interesting (though not entirely country-wide representative) polling on how the respondents believe Russia should develop:
https://translate.google.ru/translat...hhestva-ogf%2F

The research center of CPR may be also of interest, for example it claims that 32 percent of population would support referendum for extending Putin's term instead of re-electing him.
http://cipkr.ru/

12-09-17, 07:27 AM	#1
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Individual protestors in Russia I was walking down the street and met a number of individual protestors: (photographs taken with their permission) They are protesting against the insufficient soverenity of Russia and call for a change of constition via referendum. p.s. found their manifesto (google translation from Russian): https://translate.google.ru/translat...-text=&act=url __________________ Grumpy as always.

12-09-17, 08:54 AM	#2
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 180,992 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	I would imagine any outcome should it ever be forthcoming would depend largely on the stance Putin takes. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

12-09-17, 10:45 AM	#3
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	From my understanding they believe that Russia is a colony of western powers and that the Russian Goverment acts on behalf of said western powers. Hence they appear to demand the change in constitution, namely to lift the ban on state ideology and to reinstate that Russian laws take precedence over Russian international agreements. I think they are just a bunch of amusing urban crazies and they appear to be fairly harmless if deluded. __________________ Grumpy as always.

12-09-17, 01:57 PM	#7
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 22,667 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well we did send them Steven Seagal... __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

12-09-17, 03:15 PM	#10
fireftr18 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,526 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	Are they wearing tin foil under their hats so that the United States satellites can't read their minds? __________________ Of all the forms of Martial Arts, Karaoke causes the most pain!

12-10-17, 11:06 AM	#12
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,892 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	You do not get more international reputation or more sovereignty just by changing some text in the constitution. (Or maybe yes, if you change it to some democratic standards, and live by it. But i guess this is out of the question here.) The best thing is how it is formulated, how the people "beg" Putin, to "serve" the people of Russia.. lmao. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

12-11-17, 07:33 AM	#15
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Some interesting polls for the context: Levada is a -foreighn agent- polling organisation in Russia. Levada polling on public opinion regarding responsibility for the positive and negative developments: https://translate.google.ru/translat...-text=&act=url Some interesting (though not entirely country-wide representative) polling on how the respondents believe Russia should develop: https://translate.google.ru/translat...hhestva-ogf%2F The research center of CPR may be also of interest, for example it claims that 32 percent of population would support referendum for extending Putin's term instead of re-electing him. http://cipkr.ru/ __________________ Grumpy as always.