Bagged an Akula 1 with a Sturgeon

Stewy1 · 05-05-18, 04:38 AM

G'day guys,

I've been trying some '1985' style encounters. The Sturgeon was still a big part of the US fleet then, and the Akula 1 was launched in 1984.

I set up a 'trial' mission - where a Sturgeon Long went up against an Akula 1.

For a couple of tries, I was thumped by the Akula (not even detected it before there were torps and ASW missiles coming at me. I was even detected by changing depth and ventilating.

I decided to spool the TA out a little further (than my usual 1 minute of spooling), stay at 3kts, and got him at 15,000 yds. Launched a spread of 3 torps at 12,700 yds (any more and he'd start getting away from me) and got him with the left torpedo (veered left by 10 degrees from the original bearing).

A satisfying kill - I learned to trust the sensors more (both the TA and the Torps) - wasn't detected and he didn't even fire back at me!

(I've modified my Sonar Values so that both the Sturgeon Long and Akula 1 are at 55)

I'm no expert by any means - but do you have other 'David and Goliath' stories?

Cheers,
Stew

ET2SN · 05-05-18, 10:30 AM

Those are some good numbers.

Now, go sink another one.

p7p8 · 05-06-18, 04:15 AM

Who was David and who was Goliath in your story?

Quote:

(I've modified my Sonar Values so that both the Sturgeon Long and Akula 1 are at 55)

Why you did this? And what sonar? TA, hull or bow? And from what value?

Stewy1 · 05-06-18, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Who was David and who was Goliath in your story?

The sub-class first commissioned in 1971 was David...

Quote:

Why you did this? And what sonar? TA, hull or bow? And from what value?

I modified the Passive Sonar Source Levels in DWEdit - i.e., how 'noisy' the boat is...

According to this (and a few other diagrams on the net), a 637 is comparable to an Akula 1.

http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/20...ine-noise.html

p7p8 · 05-06-18, 07:33 AM

Original (in RA) passive sonar sound level is 60 for both subs. You decreased it to 55 which is close to Seawolf level (54) without any good reasons.
In other hand passive sonar sound level is NOT always noise at 0 kts speed because there is also "propulsion factor".

This is noise comparison:

About David & Goliath:

Sturgeon long have much better and faster torpedoes (from mid 80'):

Mk48mod4 - active/passive wireguided - range 17 NM*
vs
USET-80 - active/passive (without wire guiding) range 7.3 NM*
TEST-71M - active/passive wireguided - range 8.1 NM*

(* at max speed)

Sturgeon have much better TA (definatelly not from 1971 but from late 80' or mid 90'):
maximum detection sensivity at speed 14

Akula I TA:
maximum detection sensivity at speed 8

...and you lower passive noise of both subs, so Akula havent chance to detect you at good range for SUBROC engaging.

I think in this duel - you were Goliath

Try the same in Akula I vs Sturgeon long - im sure tis will be much harder mission for you.

Gray Lensman · 05-06-18, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewy1

G'day guys,

<cut>

(I've modified my Sonar Values so that both the Sturgeon Long and Akula 1 are at 55)

I'm no expert by any means - but do you have other 'David and Goliath' stories?

Cheers,
Stew

Quote:

Originally Posted by p7p8

Original (in RA) passive sonar sound level is 60 for both subs. You decreased it to 55 which is close to Seawolf level (54) without any good reasons.
In other hand passive sonar sound level is NOT always noise at 0 kts speed because there is also "propulsion factor".

This is noise comparison:

About David & Goliath:

Sturgeon long have much better and faster torpedoes (from mid 80'):

Mk48mod4 - active/passive wireguided - range 17 NM*
vs
USET-80 - active/passive (without wire guiding) range 7.3 NM*
TEST-71M - active/passive wireguided - range 8.1 NM*

(* at max speed)

Sturgeon have much better TA (definatelly not from 1971 but from late 80' or mid 90'):
maximum detection sensivity at speed 14

Akula I TA:
maximum detection sensivity at speed 8

...and you lower passive noise of both subs, so Akula havent chance to detect you at good range for SUBROC engaging.

I think in this duel - you were Goliath

Try the same in Akula I vs Sturgeon long - im sure tis will be much harder mission for you.

I certainly wouldn't have bragged about bagging an Akula with modified files. Gotta agree... It was Sturgeon (Goliath) vs Akula (David)!

ET2SN · 05-06-18, 07:28 PM

Being critical is the best way to ensure that this forum stays quiet.

Stewy1 · 05-07-18, 04:14 AM

Thanks ET2SN,

Well, I tried the reverse scenario - detected the Sturgeon at 19km. Fired 3 USET-80s (because it's 1985 for this test) at 10,500m.

He 'Ramiused' me by heading straight for me at speed. The torps went past him (was using default settings, need to try custom settings).

Fired a Shkval (operational since 1977), clipped him (45% damage) and he left the area at 21 knots. He never detected or fired at me. It wasn't a very challenging encounter.

Perhaps I misspoke when I said 'David and Goliath' - I always thought the Akula was a very capable boat, based on the Walker Spy Ring, Briton David Bingham and Toshiba-Kongsberg scandals, and had the West quite worried.

In Dangerous Waters, I've always found it hard to kill Akulas because of their ability to quickly 'get away' from the place where the torpedos have been sent.

Cheers,

p7p8 · 05-07-18, 11:13 AM

I know that you @ET2SN and @Stewy1 likes to make myths about DW. You both proved it many times. But im just MythBuster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewy1

He never detected or fired at me. It wasn't a very challenging encounter.

Perhaps I misspoke when I said 'David and Goliath' - I always thought the Akula was a very capable boat, based on the Walker Spy Ring, Briton David Bingham and Toshiba-Kongsberg scandals, and had the West quite worried.

You forgot about decreasing in DB noise levels on both subs to "Seawolf level"

So reminding Toshiba-Kongsberg scandal is not accurate in my opinion.

BTW maybe Sturg was passive because you gave "transit" tactic and ROE peace?

Can you share your mission file and replay.dat?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewy1

Thanks ET2SN

LOL

Stewy1 · 05-07-18, 04:56 PM

Whatever, dude.

tAKticool47 · 05-08-18, 07:31 AM

Hey is there somewhere I can see all towed-array detection sensitivity speeds? Thanks very much.

And wait, while I'm asking - just to clarify, when you say for example maximum detection sensitivity at speed 14 - does that mean 14 kts is the ideal speed for the towed array sensitivity, or does that mean it's the maximum speed you can detect something, and every kt lower is better?

Thanks!!

Yo still waiting on the controllable Zumwalt class, Aegis BMD/SM-3/ESSM etc.

lol jkjk

p7p8 · 05-08-18, 10:47 AM

All sonar sensors of playable ships/subs are described in:

USNI Reference -> OWNSHIP INFORMATION

Max detectable speed is maximum value for holding tracker for DEMON readings. It is too fast for searching.

For searching you should use speed which gives you undisturbed readings (around 75% of max det spd)

For example:

tAKticool47 · 05-08-18, 02:21 PM

Thank you very much good sir!

05-05-18, 04:38 AM	#1
Stewy1 Girt by Sea Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Red Route 1 Posts: 363 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 34	Bagged an Akula 1 with a Sturgeon G'day guys, I've been trying some '1985' style encounters. The Sturgeon was still a big part of the US fleet then, and the Akula 1 was launched in 1984. I set up a 'trial' mission - where a Sturgeon Long went up against an Akula 1. For a couple of tries, I was thumped by the Akula (not even detected it before there were torps and ASW missiles coming at me. I was even detected by changing depth and ventilating. I decided to spool the TA out a little further (than my usual 1 minute of spooling), stay at 3kts, and got him at 15,000 yds. Launched a spread of 3 torps at 12,700 yds (any more and he'd start getting away from me) and got him with the left torpedo (veered left by 10 degrees from the original bearing). A satisfying kill - I learned to trust the sensors more (both the TA and the Torps) - wasn't detected and he didn't even fire back at me! (I've modified my Sonar Values so that both the Sturgeon Long and Akula 1 are at 55) I'm no expert by any means - but do you have other 'David and Goliath' stories? Cheers, Stew

05-08-18, 02:21 PM	#13
tAKticool47 Bosun Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Nature Coast Posts: 61 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Спасибо ! Thank you very much good sir!

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05-05-18, 10:30 AM	#2
ET2SN ET2/SS Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 2,501 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	Those are some good numbers. Now, go sink another one.

05-06-18, 07:33 AM	#5
p7p8 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 742 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 6	Original (in RA) passive sonar sound level is 60 for both subs. You decreased it to 55 which is close to Seawolf level (54) without any good reasons. In other hand passive sonar sound level is NOT always noise at 0 kts speed because there is also "propulsion factor". This is noise comparison: About David & Goliath: Sturgeon long have much better and faster torpedoes (from mid 80'): Mk48mod4 - active/passive wireguided - range 17 NM* vs USET-80 - active/passive (without wire guiding) range 7.3 NM* TEST-71M - active/passive wireguided - range 8.1 NM* (* at max speed) Sturgeon have much better TA (definatelly not from 1971 but from late 80' or mid 90'): maximum detection sensivity at speed 14 Akula I TA: maximum detection sensivity at speed 8 ...and you lower passive noise of both subs, so Akula havent chance to detect you at good range for SUBROC engaging. I think in this duel - you were Goliath Try the same in Akula I vs Sturgeon long - im sure tis will be much harder mission for you.

05-06-18, 07:28 PM	#7
ET2SN ET2/SS Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 2,501 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	Being critical is the best way to ensure that this forum stays quiet.

05-07-18, 04:14 AM	#8
Stewy1 Girt by Sea Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Red Route 1 Posts: 363 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 34	Thanks ET2SN, Well, I tried the reverse scenario - detected the Sturgeon at 19km. Fired 3 USET-80s (because it's 1985 for this test) at 10,500m. He 'Ramiused' me by heading straight for me at speed. The torps went past him (was using default settings, need to try custom settings). Fired a Shkval (operational since 1977), clipped him (45% damage) and he left the area at 21 knots. He never detected or fired at me. It wasn't a very challenging encounter. Perhaps I misspoke when I said 'David and Goliath' - I always thought the Akula was a very capable boat, based on the Walker Spy Ring, Briton David Bingham and Toshiba-Kongsberg scandals, and had the West quite worried. In Dangerous Waters, I've always found it hard to kill Akulas because of their ability to quickly 'get away' from the place where the torpedos have been sent. Cheers,

05-07-18, 04:56 PM	#10
Stewy1 Girt by Sea Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Red Route 1 Posts: 363 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 34	Whatever, dude.

05-08-18, 07:31 AM	#11
tAKticool47 Bosun Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Nature Coast Posts: 61 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Hey is there somewhere I can see all towed-array detection sensitivity speeds? Thanks very much. And wait, while I'm asking - just to clarify, when you say for example maximum detection sensitivity at speed 14 - does that mean 14 kts is the ideal speed for the towed array sensitivity, or does that mean it's the maximum speed you can detect something, and every kt lower is better? Thanks!! Yo still waiting on the controllable Zumwalt class, Aegis BMD/SM-3/ESSM etc. lol jkjk

05-08-18, 10:47 AM	#12
p7p8 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 742 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 6	All sonar sensors of playable ships/subs are described in: USNI Reference -> OWNSHIP INFORMATION Max detectable speed is maximum value for holding tracker for DEMON readings. It is too fast for searching. For searching you should use speed which gives you undisturbed readings (around 75% of max det spd) For example: