Type IX/D2

[Kapitan Soniboy]

Hello! I'm THE U-boat freak and I need help.

My favourite submarine is the german type IX/D2. Much because of the U-boat addon to Silent Hunter IV. I can't find much information about it though. Would really like if anyone could post some pictures and stuff about it.

I know it had a schnorkel and it's kinda anoying that Ubisoft didn't give it to the IX/D2 and XXVII in the U-boat missions addon.

One more thing. I saw a film on Youtube and one guy commented; "Imagine if the germans had the state of the art american submarines in WWII". That made me pissed. We all know that german submarines were much more advanced and deep diving than the american "scrap". Agree?

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Kapitan SoniboyNazi

Hello! I'm THE U-boat freak and I need help.

My favourite submarine is the german type IX/D2. Much because of the U-boat addon to Silent Hunter IV. I can't find much information about it though. Would really like if anyone could post some pictures and stuff about it.

I know it had a schnorkel and it's kinda anoying that Ubisoft didn't give it to the IX/D2 and XXVII in the U-boat missions addon.

I think it's because none of the boats sent to operate in the Far East had snorkels fitted.

One more thing. I saw a film on Youtube and one guy commented; "Imagine if the germans had the state of the art american submarines in WWII". That made me pissed. We all know that german submarines were much more advanced and deep diving than the american "scrap". Agree?

German subs were more deep diving, but the advanced subs arrived a bit too late for the party. But I imagine the Germans would have loved the air and sea search radar and ten torpedo tubes that came standard on most US boats. American subs probably wouldn't have fared any better than the U-Boats fighting the British, but then that's not the theater or opponent they were designed to fight against.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

German subs were more deep diving,

actually...American subs (depending on the sub) could dive just as deep or deeper....

Ie. the USS Chopper incident.

she got to 1,000+ feet more than 295 meters...

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

incident

that says it all i guess

[tater]

How'd that deep diving work out for them? Most boats lived out the war, did they?

[pythos]

Type IX/D2s were not fitted with a snorkel, only a few type IX and type VII along with the XXI and XXIII were fitted with such as far as operational boats were concerned. Why a snorkel was not fit to the D2 is beyond me, but that was the case. The same went for the Type XIV resupply boats.

The American fleet boat was several times better than the Type IX and VII, and inferior in only a few respects to the XXI. The fleet boats were longer legged, both under and above water. Later boats were quieter. And from early on were much better equipped than the German boats. Something they lacked was the snorkel, which is surprising really. That being said, the type VII for a long time was the ideal boat for fighting in the atlantic, whereas the American boats would not have done so well. The VII could VERY fast, compared to the slow to dive Fleet boat. The Type IX was just an elongated VII with more fuel and torpedo stowage for extra long jaunts into the south Atlantic, or eastern United States. Slower diving, and not as maneuverable as the VII.

Now the Type XXI. Now that was a scary boat for the allies, it would have wreaked some major havoc, and dissapeared without a trace. The Me262 of the sea one could say. Is it any wonder that many Russian and American post war boats had many design features of this type.

[Rockin Robbins]

They took American "scrap" and fitted them with some underwater streamlining after the war, no mods to the working gear itself and outperformed the Type XXI on the surface and submerged.And this with an actual battle tested fightable submarine, not some wet behind the ears wishful thought that never saw combat. After all the Type XXI was just copying the World War I shape of the American S-Boat. We abandoned better underwater performance for good reason and the results showed the Americans were right.

American scrap was better than an untested and not ready for prime-time Type XXI, much less any other German U-Boat. They could have streamlined the fleet boat for increased underwater performance any time, but it would have made it a much less effective fighting machine by encouraging the ostrich strategy of fighting a submarine. Diesel submarines are surface craft that can submerge for the shortest possible amount of time when it's absolutely necessary. When fought that way they are maximally effective. The best submarine for that purpose by far is the American fleet boat.

By the way, I am surprised that your name passes the smell test here at SUBSIM. It sure doesn't pass mine.

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, Soni, I'm afraid we'll have to shorten your name. While all Subsim members respect the accomplishments of the Kriegsmarine in war, we do not want to give off the appearance of glorifying the Nazis.

Besides, it will be quicker for you to log in with Kapitan Soniboy

[Rockin Robbins]

Economy is good! Welcome to Subsim Kapitan Soniboy. Your name is now green, saving millions of scarce electrons every year!

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by pythos

The American fleet boat was several times better than the Type IX and VII...

Now THAT's going too far. The American boats were an incremental, not a revolutionary improvement over the U-Boats. We're not comparing atomic submarines to the USS Holland here. They were in no way several times better. They were a little bit better in several dozen categories, just as the U-Boats were a little bit better in several categories.

They both sank targets and were quite good at it. Germans were less successful primarily because of strategy, tactics, planning, operational procedures and the nature of their enemy. It's too easy to overstate the differences between submarines and U-Boats based on the results of the war.

Were the fleet boats better than the U-Boats? Unquestionably yes! Could the US Navy have achieved the same result with a fleet of Type IX boats? Yes, no problem.

Could the Kriegsmarine have achieved the same result with a fleet of US Submarines? YES. The defects of their operational strategy and the difference in the nature of their enemy dictated defeat, even with a fleet of Type XXIs or Guppies. The Germans could never conceive that the very use of submarines in WWII was counterproductive and was enough all by itself to guarantee the loss of the war. Fortunately, that was not the only fatal mistake the Wehrmacht made. They had a talent for serial blunders of fatal catastophe. Many of these blunders, all by themselves, would have guaranteed German defeat. The regime was rotten to the core and incompetent in matters of war. Although tactically superior, they were strategically destitute.

[Sledgehammer427]

excellent point, RR

[Carotio]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Were the fleet boats better than the U-Boats? Unquestionably yes! Could the US Navy have achieved the same result with a fleet of Type IX boats? Yes, no problem.

Just an idea of an experimental mod: how about doing a vice versa mod and add/remove fleet boats/uboats to/from America/Germany.

Head out of Pearl in an IXd2, or head out of Wilhelmshaven with a Tambor, just for the fun of it...

[Kapitan Soniboy]

Then why did they copy German technology after the war? Without the V-2 rocket you would not have reached the moon in 1969! Tell me, why are the American SABER and Russian MIG which fought against each other in the Korean War so similar to each other? Because both the Russians and Americans copied german technology. I have a friend who served on a submarine and he told me that the VII were so much better in all ways than the American subs. That a VII in the Pacific would be a dream come true for any American submariner. Well, I guess nobody can tell.

The IX-D2 HAD a snorkel. There is one IX-D2 just of the coast here in Norway and it has a snorkel (The only submarine to be sunk by another submarine when both were submerged). Another IX-D2 which was sunk near South-Africa did only run on the surface 15 minutes every day because it had a snorkel. Guys, have you ever seen Das Boot????

Okay, you changed my name. I can understand that but you must know it was just a silly joke. Sorry.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Kapitan Soniboy

I have a friend who served on a submarine and he told me that the VII were so much better in all ways than the American subs. That a VII in the Pacific would be a dream come true for any American submariner. Well, I guess nobody can tell.

With all due respect to your friend a Type VII wouldn't have had the operational range to reach Japan from Pearl Harbor. They could barely reach the Eastern United States seaboard without refueling. Plus, I wouldn't want to spend the month it would take to get there in a cramped sub without air conditioning, limited and unrefrigerated food storage and only five torpedo tubes. The Type IX would be a better bet, but I'd want a US sub's radar fit. It's a big ocean.

Guys, have you ever seen Das Boot????

Yes I did. Rather depressing and if I remember correctly just about half the crew dies at the end. Hardly a ringing endorsement of the U-Boat war.

[Rockin Robbins]

I've always thought that Das Boot was an interesting movie with lots of pretty authentic shots of U-Boats, but with actors poorly mocking the procedures and character of real U-Boat sailors.

The captain is lollygagging around with the periscope trying to be spotted by leaving it wagging in the air too long and suddenly the destroyer (who'da thought????) comes out of nowhere and they do the ALAAAAAAAAARM bit. This is plain silliness! Here's the procedure, the captain has the periscope down. He asks the sonar operator, where's the targets? The sonar opeator tells him a destroyer is approaching on bearing xx. Captain sets the periscope on the bearing, pops the scope up (he crouches over the periscope well, catches the handles on the way up, spins the scope to the correct bearing, peeks, says "Mark", and lowers the scope. It literally just bounces off the top stop, staying up for maybe two seconds.) and calmly takes pre-planned evasion or attack actions. The movie? S_T_U_P_I_D!!!

The main character is some everyman whose function is to whimper in the corner, suffering nobly but incapable of any constructive function on the boat. Give me a break! On a real U-Boat he would have been properly tossed overboard without a life jacket. There weren't enough men on a U-Boat to have a designated corner whimperer. Send him back to his mommy!

When the sub is under attack there is no evasion at all! They just sit down there and hope the enemy misses. Stupid! U-Boats were not helpless victims of war, they actually fought it!

When I watched the movie in ignorance when it first came out I was awed. As I learned more and more about how submarines and U-Boats were run, I looked at Das Boot for what it is: a poor melodrama, whose purpose is propoganda. A lousy anti-war film with great props. An insult to the real U-Boat crews who fought with courage and ability.