@Zeewolf future idea

[Freiwillige]

Just an idea I thought I would throw your way for the future, I know your plates quit full at this moment.

Modeling Army group Kurland late 1944.

The terrain would be similar

The battle would be heroic.

Its a win\win situation!

And it puts the German element on the defensive which I like with a few counter attacks to keep the Russians off guard.

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

Just an idea I thought I would throw your way for the future, I know your plates quit full at this moment.

Modeling Army group Kurland late 1944.

The terrain would be similar

The battle would be heroic.

Its a win\win situation!

And it puts the German element on the defensive which I like with a few counter attacks to keep the Russians off guard.

That is a fantastic idea FreiW, We need a winter battle campaign that would
be historical and this just might fit the bill. If you could help me with some
research on the place and maps etc. I could be more firm on the idea. The
terrain map has become a fairly easy task of attaining good satellite digital data sets.
So the terrain could be accurately reproduced. But good battle
maps is what is really needed.

Zee

[Freiwillige]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

That is a fantastic idea FreiW, We need a winter battle campaign that would
be historical and this just might fit the bill. If you could help me with some
research on the place and maps etc. I could be more firm on the idea. The
terrain map has become a fairly easy task of attaining good satellite digital data sets.
So the terrain could be accurately reproduced. But good battle
maps is what is really needed.

Zee

Not a problem, I will see what I can dig up.

[Freiwillige]

In the mean time here is some great reading about Tigers, at the bottom it compares Tiger commanders views on combating the IS2!


Ooops forgot the link!

Here it is, had to find it again!
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1_in_action.htm

[Freiwillige]

After days of research I have come up with almost nothing. Very little has been written about this phase of the war, At least in English.

I do know that 6 major battles were fought in Kurland and the German's stopped the Russians every time. Also Hitler forbade any retreat from Kurland or after the encirclement a break out attempt. Kurland held out till the German surrender. 220,000 German and Baltic forces were captured. 5th SS wiking fought in the area.

So the only option from here it seems is to purchase a book.

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

5th SS wiking fought in the area.

The SS Wiking division did not fight in the Courland Pocket, or anywhere near it. From what I know it was fighting in Poland when the pocket was formed, then continued to operate in Hungary and surrounding areas until the end of the war (It took part in Operation Konrad too, which might be interesting if you're looking to do a historical winter campaign). IIRC the only armoured divisions to be trapped in Courland were the 12th and 14th Panzer Divisions, though I'm not 100% certain.

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

After days of research I have come up with almost nothing. Very little has been written about this phase of the war, At least in English.

I do know that 6 major battles were fought in Kurland and the German's stopped the Russians every time. Also Hitler forbade any retreat from Kurland or after the encirclement a break out attempt. Kurland held out till the German surrender. 220,000 German and Baltic forces were captured. 5th SS wiking fought in the area.

So the only option from here it seems is to purchase a book.

Very good Friewillige. Perhaps we could move the time frame back to 1943
and start with the Leningrad front and maybe the Heavy Tank Battalion 502.
They had Tiger Es and also fought in winter campaigns. This would still
be a challenge for accurate research but could be a starter for the retreat
of Army Group North witch as you know fought in Kurland.

ZW

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

The SS Wiking division did not fight in the Courland Pocket, or anywhere near it. From what I know it was fighting in Poland when the pocket was formed, then continued to operate in Hungary and surrounding areas until the end of the war (It took part in Operation Konrad too, which might be interesting if you're looking to do a historical winter campaign). IIRC the only armoured divisions to be trapped in Courland were the 12th and 14th Panzer Divisions, though I'm not 100% certain.

That's true Raptor. And I'll check out Operation Konrad to see if there where Tigers involved.
Meanwhile here is a link to a overall view and condensed history of the 5th SS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_SS_...ivision_Wiking

ZeeWolf

[Freiwillige]

Found the order of Battle here.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/camp..._documents.htm

As for Wiking you are correct, Ironically the SS group I was thinking of was Freiwilligen!

And more info here.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/camp...d_campaign.htm

[Freiwillige]

And info here about Schwere Panzer Abteilung 510 and their Tigers strength in Courland.

http://fprado.com/armorsite/tigers-02.htm

Scroll down to Abteilung 510

[Raptor1]

As for Operation Konrad, several battalions of Tiger IIs participated, but it seems only two units of Tiger Is were present. One of these was a company of the Hungarian 3rd Tank Regiment, while the second was the 9th Company of the 3rd SS Panzer Regiment (Part of the SS Totenkopft division). It's doubtful that the former participated in offensive operations (Though I'm not totally certain about that), but the 3rd SS Panzer Regiment and therefore its single Tiger company participated heavily in both the Konrad I and Konrad III offensives.

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

As for Operation Konrad, several battalions of Tiger IIs participated, but it seems only two units of Tiger Is were present. One of these was a company of the Hungarian 3rd Tank Regiment, while the second was the 9th Company of the 3rd SS Panzer Regiment (Part of the SS Totenkopft division). It's doubtful that the former participated in offensive operations (Though I'm not totally certain about that), but the 3rd SS Panzer Regiment and therefore its single Tiger company participated heavily in both the Konrad I and Konrad III offensives.

Excellent Raptor. The Hungarian 3rd Tank Regiment and the 9th Company of
the 3rd SS Panzer Regiment. This is one battle that the KingTiger will have to
participate. I also understand that there was a horrific and fierce battle for
Hungary and would be a real challenge to recreate a part of it in T34 vs Tiger.
However I believe it could be done after completion of the KingTiger.

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

And info here about Schwere Panzer Abteilung 510 and their Tigers strength in Courland.

http://fprado.com/armorsite/tigers-02.htm

Scroll down to Abteilung 510

Ok, the Abteilung 510 was there, and fought like hell
I would like to do a winter 43/44 battle first before moving into 45.
So, what do you think of the battle of Narva or the battle of the Korsun Pocket?
Nava had the Abteilung 502 and Korsun had the Abt.503

[Freiwillige]

Well sure!

[Sledgehammer427]

the Korsun pocket would be interesting