HELL BELOW, July 17 - Smithsonian Channel to Premiere New 6-Episode Series - Page 2

Onkel Neal · 07-18-16, 05:19 PM

First episode, Kretschmer and Schepke, pretty good.

Catfish · 07-19-16, 01:43 AM

^^ Shooting at hospital ships is definitely crossing the border, and then gunning down survivors..

as far as i know there were two cases in WW1 regarding german boats. In both cases the crew seems to have objected, but it was done all the same. I read about one case where the german captain was obviously trying to, so to speak, "destroy evidence" and spare his country the shame, after he realized he had been torpedoing a hospital ship. No excuse, of course.
Regarding Entente or allied action and its unrestricted war of this kind, it has seldom been a subject of discussion.

The situation was a bit tight though, regarding especially the british (ab)used hospital and civilian ships as military transports, or all sides flying false flags as in the Baralong case and other british "Q-ships", or the german auxiliary cruisers/commerce raiders. Again, the latter behaved a lot more honourable, they were intially equipped to take the crews of the sunk enemies aboard and detain them, instead of killing. U-boats did not have the capability to do so, which is why german U-boats in WW1 often towed life boats of their enemies to the coast, if the situation permitted. Also seldomly heard of.

The captains of german U-boats, commerce raiders and auxiliary cruisers and their actions in WW1 were celebrated in Germany until long after WW2, not only because of doubtful heroism, but becasue of humane and honourable action. There are a lot of german books about this, Graf Luckner with his "Seeadler, or the "Emden" with von Mueller and von Muecke, and the fate of its crew are two examples.
Looking at WW2 and the Laconia incident, i also seldom heard of such things done by the Allies. Which does not mean it did not happen. Did it?

Also, arming civilian british ships with guns already in WW1 (forbidden by international law b.t.w.) rendered the international prize regulation useless, and it is still well worth to mention that most of the german U-boats still stopped enemy shipping allowing the crew to man the lifeboats; even if the merchants were armed, and even in the (relatively short!) times of german "unrestricted" U-boat warfare. Almost all german captains of the time utterly refused to lead an unrestricted war. Not so the Entente captains.

In Eck's case in WW2 it was fear of being found by planes, put in him by two other U-boat captains before parting, who had warned him about detection and the chances of survival, in a big, slow-diving boat in perfectly transparent tropical waters. He tried to sink all the debris, including life rafts, that could be seen from the air. As he stated he did not intentionally shoot at shipwrecked persons, though the destroying of life rafts certainly put the latter in a very bad situation to say at least.
None of the survivors were allowed to join and speak up in the trial.
Eck sure was not proud of his action, as his comments and answers in the trial suggest, he did not destroy the logbook, he paid the price.
Performing such action as an allied commander, he probably would have been a decorated hero, and another modern sub would bear his sub's name, and number. Like the HMS Torbay.

Mr Quatro · 07-19-16, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz-Wilhelm_Eck
As this site points out: Eck did himself no favors; He did not destroy his own logbook! And ADM Nimitz did not come to his defense as with ADM Donitz war crimes trial!

Eck, August Hoffmann, Walter Weisspfennig, Hans Lenz, Wolfgang Schwender. The leftmost three were executed. http://www.executedtoday.com/2009/11/30/1945-heinz-eck-u-boat-commander/

OT perhaps this is why Germany is against the death penalty and warning Turkey not to reinstate the penalty

vudriga · 09-08-16, 05:19 AM

Watched it.Such a ****y documentary.Half the episodes were about U-boats and half about American subs in the Pacific.Who cares about American subs in the Pacific.NO ONE !!! that's who.It's just not the same as a German U-boat war in Atlantic.

And another thing, CGI is a crap, CRAP.They had, I think, two torpedo launch and hit animations, and they used it all the time.Complete CGI work was terrible.If they used clips from Silent Hunter 5 it would be 100 % improvement.

Onkel Neal · 09-08-16, 05:49 AM

Wrong. I care about American subs in the Pacific. A lot of people do. It's nice to submarine warfare done right.

Subnuts · 09-08-16, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vudriga

Who cares about American subs in the Pacific.NO ONE !!! that's who..

A pretty substantial portion of the people on this forum are going to be surprised to learn they don't actually exist...me included.

07-18-16, 05:19 PM	#16
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,283 Downloads: 534 Uploads: 224	First episode, Kretschmer and Schepke, pretty good. __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

07-19-16, 01:43 AM	#17
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,894 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	^^ Shooting at hospital ships is definitely crossing the border, and then gunning down survivors.. as far as i know there were two cases in WW1 regarding german boats. In both cases the crew seems to have objected, but it was done all the same. I read about one case where the german captain was obviously trying to, so to speak, "destroy evidence" and spare his country the shame, after he realized he had been torpedoing a hospital ship. No excuse, of course. Regarding Entente or allied action and its unrestricted war of this kind, it has seldom been a subject of discussion. The situation was a bit tight though, regarding especially the british (ab)used hospital and civilian ships as military transports, or all sides flying false flags as in the Baralong case and other british "Q-ships", or the german auxiliary cruisers/commerce raiders. Again, the latter behaved a lot more honourable, they were intially equipped to take the crews of the sunk enemies aboard and detain them, instead of killing. U-boats did not have the capability to do so, which is why german U-boats in WW1 often towed life boats of their enemies to the coast, if the situation permitted. Also seldomly heard of. The captains of german U-boats, commerce raiders and auxiliary cruisers and their actions in WW1 were celebrated in Germany until long after WW2, not only because of doubtful heroism, but becasue of humane and honourable action. There are a lot of german books about this, Graf Luckner with his "Seeadler, or the "Emden" with von Mueller and von Muecke, and the fate of its crew are two examples. Looking at WW2 and the Laconia incident, i also seldom heard of such things done by the Allies. Which does not mean it did not happen. Did it? Also, arming civilian british ships with guns already in WW1 (forbidden by international law b.t.w.) rendered the international prize regulation useless, and it is still well worth to mention that most of the german U-boats still stopped enemy shipping allowing the crew to man the lifeboats; even if the merchants were armed, and even in the (relatively short!) times of german "unrestricted" U-boat warfare. Almost all german captains of the time utterly refused to lead an unrestricted war. Not so the Entente captains. In Eck's case in WW2 it was fear of being found by planes, put in him by two other U-boat captains before parting, who had warned him about detection and the chances of survival, in a big, slow-diving boat in perfectly transparent tropical waters. He tried to sink all the debris, including life rafts, that could be seen from the air. As he stated he did not intentionally shoot at shipwrecked persons, though the destroying of life rafts certainly put the latter in a very bad situation to say at least. None of the survivors were allowed to join and speak up in the trial. Eck sure was not proud of his action, as his comments and answers in the trial suggest, he did not destroy the logbook, he paid the price. Performing such action as an allied commander, he probably would have been a decorated hero, and another modern sub would bear his sub's name, and number. Like the HMS Torbay. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 07-19-16 at 04:19 PM. Reason: spelling errors, mostly*

09-08-16, 05:49 AM	#20
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,283 Downloads: 534 Uploads: 224	Wrong. I care about American subs in the Pacific. A lot of people do. It's nice to submarine warfare done right. __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

09-08-16, 05:19 AM	#19
vudriga Watch Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 22 Downloads: 308 Uploads: 0	Watched it.Such a ****y documentary.Half the episodes were about U-boats and half about American subs in the Pacific.Who cares about American subs in the Pacific.NO ONE !!! that's who.It's just not the same as a German U-boat war in Atlantic. And another thing, CGI is a crap, CRAP.They had, I think, two torpedo launch and hit animations, and they used it all the time.Complete CGI work was terrible.If they used clips from Silent Hunter 5 it would be 100 % improvement.